The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

[kitakaze]

I don't have any pictures, yet. It's not far enough along....I've just started cutting some pieces.
But I'm planning on spending some time on it this weekend. It won't be too long before I can have some pictures to post.

That might be interesting. Of course, don't go wasting your time deferring an answer to a question that is available now if you don't need to.

BTW, it's good that you are seeking a hands-on approach such as Dfoot has or neltana also.

Just curious, would you appreciate it if someone heckled you every step of the way as you did to Dfoot?

 

[kitakaze]

Are you going for a complete Patty match, or just focusing on reproducing some aspect a la Dfoot?

Just curious, really.

Good question. neltana. Sweaty was one of those people who heckled Dfoot during his efforts and placed a lot of demands as though his purpose was to reproduce Patty rather than a specific aspect. Sweaty was also one of those who became very silent when Dfoot said that he wasn't attempting a full recreation, which would be far too costly for him on his own, but he would eagerly undertake the effort if people like Sweaty would chip in to the effort.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Vortigern wrote:

To my eye, the kind of padding seen for example on the Star Trek android character Ruk, played by Ted Cassidy in October 1966, could easily accomplish the expansion in size of the shoulders, CHEST and arms of the P-G figure.

Here is Ted...with and without the "Magical Suit"...

There is NO 'extended chest width' with this magical suit....only the arms and shoulders are padded-out.


I watched the video once, and could tell.....as I stated in my earlier post....that the chest didn't appear to be padded out very much...IF AT ALL.

 

[kitakaze]

Here is Ted...with and without the "Magical Suit"...


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty%20and%20Bob/Ted3Lined.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty%20and%20Bob/STTeddy4Lined.jpg[/qimg]


There is NO 'extended chest width' with this magical suit....only the arms and shoulders are padded-out.


I watched the video once, and could tell.....as I stated in my earlier post....that the chest didn't appear to be padded out very much...IF AT ALL.

Sweaty, just curious, could you explain how you chose the placement of lines in the first image of Cassidy as Lurch. The line on Cassidy as Ruk appears to be across his stomach rather than his chest.

Also, please note this video by Dfoot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQlPAFV6yaI

Check out from 00:06, 00:12, and 1:29. Do you see any evidence of upper body padding expanding dimensions of the suit wearer? That would be a yes or no question.

 

[kitakaze]

Just for reference here's Ted Cassidy in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kpOyTQNgA8

Check 2:29 and 2:52 for a look at Cassidy's bare chest.

Wednesday teaches Lurch to dance is another good one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBCXAgILVF4&feature=related

 

[kitakaze]

Do you mean you're going to be traveling to different areas, around the state?

If so...hopefully you'll get up to the Lake George/Whitehall area. If the 'Big Guy' is anywhere in NY state....he's there.

It's a pretty good deal....you'd get to enjoy the beautiful scenery, with a chance of coming across a Bigfoot, too.
How can you go wrong?!

Travel I wish. I won't be getting my feet wet or hands dirty this time around.

You're a good friend, log, not bursting his bubble like that.

Hey, Sweaty, check this out. Log on Bigfoot outside the PNW:

PNW and perhaps some of the Rockie Mt States. Florida Skunk Ape is its own entity. Just about everywhere else in the lower 48 states is mythology at work.

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=24431

*poot*

Dude, did you hear that? She just left a big ol' log right on Joyce's lawn.

She just poo-pooed one of your favourite reasons for believing in Bigfoot. She thinks Bigfoot in New York is mythology. Maybe you should ask her if she thinks Joyce is coo coo and your belief misguided. Not gonna happen? Didn't think so.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Sweaty, just curious, could you explain how you chose the placement of lines in the first image of Cassidy as Lurch. The line on Cassidy as Ruk appears to be across his stomach rather than his chest.

Also, please note this video by Dfoot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQlPAFV6yaI

Check out from 00:06, 00:12, and 1:29. Do you see any evidence of upper body padding expanding dimensions of the suit wearer?

That would be a yes or no question.

Yes, Dfoot's "upper body dimensions" are expanded by his padded suit...........BUT.........as far as the dimension of his chest width is concerned, I can't tell whether it has been expanded by anything more than an inch, because of the angle that he's being viewed from...

We would need to see him from directly behind to get an accurate measurement of his 'padded chest width'.

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

Maybe you should ask her if she thinks Joyce is coo coo and your belief misguided. Not gonna happen? Didn't think so.

Just like I said before.....the "Great Kaze"....tells the Footers where, when, and why they should post.

He tells Footers who they should ask questions of, and exactly what they should ask.


Listen buddy......Crow has a right to her own opinions, and thoughts.

 

[Crowlogic]

My observations and conclusions about the possibility of the presence of Sasquatch/Bigfoot residing in the hinterlands of NY State are based entirely on my own personal observations. As I don't know Joyce, her mother and the report of the NYS sighting I've chosen not to speculate on the sighting.

In a similar vein not long ago I was visiting a 19th Century working farm/nature preserve in Mercer County NJ. My conversation with one of the guides involved predation of livestock. I was stunned to learn that the biggest threat to the sheep flock was in the form of Coyote. This is a region that while not super densely populated is close to a numbr of large population centers. If I had been asked whether Coyote are in that area 20 years ago I'd say no they were not. But in spite of greater development and population Coyote are there now.

 

[Vortigern99]

Here is Ted...with and without the "Magical Suit"...

There is NO 'extended chest width' with this magical suit....only the arms and shoulders are padded-out.


I watched the video once, and could tell.....as I stated in my earlier post....that the chest didn't appear to be padded out very much...IF AT ALL.

Yeti, your placement of the vertical red measuring marks in the quoted images, above, are highly subjective and to my eye, inaccurate. On the "Lurch" figure (left), you've placed the marks according to the line of the jacket, a loose-hanging garment which does not conform to the unseen anatomy beneath. In short, the jacket is larger than the actor's chest. On the "Ruk" figure (right), again you've placed the marks according to the line of the jacket, this time somewhat more accurately since this is a tight garment which conforms to the unseen structure beneath, in this case artificial padding (see below). However, your "Ruk" measurement appears to be pinched inward, as though you're attempting to place the measuring lines in a predetermined position, based on your subjective opinion as to where the actor's chest "must" lie. If I were to place the lines, I would space them apart another few millimeters, according to the visible edge of the torso, thus refuting your measurement as subjective and inaccurate.

Also, in contrast to your final assertion above (specifically "IF AT ALL"), there is certainly chest padding in the Ruk suit. It's visible in this pic which I've posted three times now, but which you bewilderingly continue to ignore:

Finally, the obvious must be stated here, namely that even if the "Ruk" suit did not not pad out the chest size, this would not be evidence that some other, separate suit could not or would not pad out the chest size. I offered Ruk as an example of shoulder and arm padding, for which purpose it faithfully serves. If Ruk's chest size is expanded only minimally, or not at all, this in no way refutes the assertion that a "Patty"-type suit could substantially expand the chest size.

 

[xblade]

We would need to see him from directly behind to get an accurate measurement of his 'padded chest width'.

Do we have a similar shot of Patty showing that Roger's suit was too wide to be a suit?

 

[xblade]

In a similar vein not long ago I was visiting a 19th Century working farm/nature preserve in Mercer County NJ. My conversation with one of the guides involved predation of livestock. I was stunned to learn that the biggest threat to the sheep flock was in the form of Coyote.

You'd think bigfoot would snatch a sheep or two, especially the lonely male outcast bigfoots.

 

[Crowlogic]

You'd think bigfoot would snatch a sheep or two, especially the lonely male outcast bigfoots.

In Mercer County NJ? Seems the Coyote will run down any lone rogue BF before they ever get within reach of the sheep.

 

[JcR]

Thought I might add some more Patty heads.
Personally I feel even if one managed to replicate Patty to T.
With suit materials and film cameras available from the period.
To me that would only establish that you could re-create whatever
was filmed that day in 1967 at Bluff Creek. (of course another nail for Patty)
If you play your cards like Roger Patterson did, you could have another
film of something that must be one of two things.
A Patricia Patterson or a Bob Gimlin confession at this point might put away Patty for good?
Question... Because a Bob Heironimus confession did what?
But I 'm sure the Bigfoot culture will strive on with or without the PGF.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Yeti, your placement of the vertical red measuring marks in the quoted images, above, are highly subjective and to my eye, inaccurate. On the "Lurch" figure (left), you've placed the marks according to the line of the jacket, a loose-hanging garment which does not conform to the unseen anatomy beneath. In short, the jacket is larger than the actor's chest.

On the "Ruk" figure (right), again you've placed the marks according to the line of the jacket, this time somewhat more accurately since this is a tight garment which conforms to the unseen structure beneath, in this case artificial padding (see below).

However, your "Ruk" measurement appears to be pinched inward, as though you're attempting to place the measuring lines in a predetermined position, based on your subjective opinion as to where the actor's chest "must" lie.

I don't know exactly what you mean by my lines being "pinched inward"....I don't see anywhere else to draw the lines.

Here is the original, unlined image...

Could you possibly download it, and draw the lines where you think the outer edges of the padded chest actually are?

If I were to place the lines, I would space them apart another few millimeters, according to the visible edge of the torso, thus refuting your measurement as subjective and inaccurate.

A "few millimeters"??

The extreme chest width of Patty, alleged to be created by padding, is on the order of approx. 3" per side.

So a variation of only a few millimeters on Ted's suit would have no impact on the point being made about the extreme chest width of Patty's alleged 'suit'.

Also, in contrast to your final assertion above (specifically "IF AT ALL"), there is certainly CHEST padding in the Ruk suit.

It's visible in this pic which I've posted three times now, but which you bewilderingly continue to ignore...

My assertion was not simply that:

....the CHEST didn't appear to be padded out very much...IF AT ALL.

This is what I said in an earlier post, regarding the "chest being padded-out".....("width" being a very key word)...

The chest-WIDTH is the much more significant, and 'telling' body dimension, with regards to padding, because the more it's "padded-out", the harder it'll become for the arms to appear, and move, normally.)

Even though I didn't include the word "width" in that particular statement of mine, that you just responded to...it is the aspect of Patty's chest that I've been talking about, in just about all of my posts.

Finally, the obvious must be stated here, namely that even if the "Ruk" suit did not not pad out the chest size, this would not be evidence that some other, separate suit could not or would not pad out the chest size.

That's true.....but so far, no suit has been shown to extend the chest-width of an actor by 3 inches on each side, and still allow for realistic-looking arm movement.

I offered Ruk as an example of shoulder and arm padding, for which purpose it faithfully serves.

Actually, Vort....you initially offered Rukko in this manner...

Anyone suggesting that a hair suit could not pad out the chest, shoulders and arms and still allow normal arm movement need only watch this episode to see such notions dissolved.

That's called "Moving the Goal Posts".

You originally included "chest", and now you've dropped it from your proposal.

The notion that "a person's chest-width can't be padded-out to the tune of 3 inches on each side, and still allow for natural, realistic-looking arm movement" is totally unaffected by Mr. Ruk's padded suit.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Do we have a similar shot of Patty showing that Roger's suit was too wide to be a suit?

An image showing Patty's extreme chest-width can be seen in post #888.

 

[Vortigern99]

Yeti, I appreciate the clarifications. I did edit "chest" into my above-quoted message, after initially posting it with reference only to arms and shoulders, but you're correct in that, as it now stands, I referred to the padding of the chest as well as of the arms and shoulders.

However, I fail to grasp how an expansion of chest size via under-suit padding would impede arm movement, since any such padding would by nature be soft, yielding and flexible. In any case, I'll make a more detailed post on this subject after I've created the requested diagrams, showing my own subjective measurements as to where Lurch's and Ruk's chest dimensions probably lie.

And BTW, when I said I'd move the lines "a few millimeters" I was referring to the dimensions of the pic, not a full-size figure.

 

[BazBear]

Why does which human was in the suit matter?

 

[Vortigern99]

Here are my incredibly crude, MS Paint "crayon" drawings indicating my perceived indications of, in the "Lurch" picture, where the real anatomy of Ted Cassidy probably lies underneath his clothes, compared to where the illusory anatomy of the "Ruk" android is meant to be underneath his robes, an intentional illusion imparted by the suit padding.

My disclaimers are that 1. Although I am a professional illustrator, in my work I employ hand-held pens and brushes, and have little to no facility drawing with a shaky, imprecise mouse on a computer screen, 2. Every individual has slightly different measurements and proportions, and 3. Variations in camera lens, printing processes and digital compression will likely distort, and thus render invalid, any and all measurements.

In the "Lurch" pic, I've measured the head in order to calculate where the baseline of the chest can be safely placed, according to a rule of human proportion which dictates that in an erect pose such as this one, the nipples will be located roughly one head-length below the baseline of the chin.

I've then filled in the (sloppy, mouse-drawn) details of the pectoral and deltoid anatomy, and measured in vertical magenta lines the lateral distance between the portion of the pectorals that lies outside the nipples, which on my screen is almost exactly 1.5 inches. [It should be noted that the actor is standing at a slight rotation so that the left (viewer's right) side of his chest is seen in foreshortened perspective.]

In the "Ruk" pic, I've again measured the head and determined that the actor is slightly smaller, IOW more distant from the camera, than in the "Lurch" pic. The lateral distance between the portion of the pectorals that lies outside the nipples is just over 1.5 inches. Owing to the difference in camera distance (based on the measurement of the head), when brought up to a 1:1 size ratio, the pectoral width in the "Ruk" figure must be greater than 1.5 inches. Therefore the "Ruk" chest is slightly larger than the "Lurch" chest.

What that difference might translate to in terms of full-size human measurements, I'll leave for the mathematicians, with the note that a person of Cassidy's size probably has a 1:8 head-to-body ratio, for whatever that's worth.

I cannot say how productive any of this has been, and as with my earlier attempts at mouse-drawn overlay musculature, my observations will likely be severely scoffed at. I'm willing to risk that, however, given my above disclaimers and the recognition of this as an exercise in subjective photographic analysis.

EDIT: For some reason, the "Lurch" pic now appears to be smaller than the "Ruk" pic, when on my Paint software this was reversed. Either way, "Ruk" has a broader chest, so I win.

 

[LTC8K6]

Why does which human was in the suit matter?

It doesn't, which is why I don't get into the argument, despite participating very heavily in the bigfoot threads.

It simply doesn't matter to the skeptical position at all.

For the believers, it's a giant waste of time, too. Eliminating one person doesn't do a thing for them in reality.