Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[joobz]

So, I can't use history to support my argument, that doesn't make sense. And your vile language is bringing emotion into this logical debate. If your argument is logically sound you don't need to use that kind of language. So the more you feel the need to use that emotional language the more it leads one to believe your argument is not wholly based on logic.

DOC, Your use of the holocaust in this example is clearly an attempt at an emotional appeal. It's meant to stifle discussion by invoking a taboo subject that is barely relatable to the current discussion at hand.

Think, why did you use that example instead of (say) using the catholic churches blocking of condom use in Africa?
Or Why not use the example of crusades? of the inquisition? of the spanish conquistidors?

 

[joobz]

If a murderer is "truly" sincerely sorry he will be forgiven. A lot of people say they are sorry but really aren't.

being truly sorry doesn't bring back the dead.

Are you really claiming that remorse is enough for the attrocities?
Do you think the people who were cheated by Madoff would feel any better if they knew he was "truly" sorry about it?

And most of the Nazis were brainwashed by an evil genius who knew how to play on peoples emotions and weaknesses. Hitler was an evil serpent much like another evil serpent in Genesis. Some of the Nazi might have thought they were doing God's will but they were greatly delusional. Even Christ predicts that Christians would be persecuted by those who thought they were doing God's will.

And your god would further punish these dupes if they never realized they were duped. Even though, you just admitted, that many of them were brainwashed by the "evil genius". Brainwashed (mind you) by using christian themes and motivations.

Is your god really that illogical in his justice?

 

[Lothian]

So you want a universe where there is no severe punishment. You want someone like that man who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl or someone like Hitler (who was responsible for the death of 60 million people) not to be severely punished.

Under Christianity, nobody gets away with murder.

If a murderer is "truly" sincerely sorry he will be forgiven.

Should someone who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl who is "truly" sincerely sorry get away with murder?

 

[joobz]

Should someone who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl who is "truly" sincerely sorry get away with murder?

But remember that if a person was to have sacrificed his life to save that small girl wasn't christian, he'd go straight to hell.

Yup. That's a just and loving god, isn't it?

 

[Simon39759]

Well then what about the practice of marrying another man's wife while she is still married to the other man. Do you think Jesus condoned that.

That's call polyandry and that's not more shocking than polygamy, that only seems fair, really.

Jesus would probably not have approved that, but that's because he was a product of his time and culture.
A time and culture that treated women as properties of their husbands and condoned slavery.
It's perfectly natural if you see Jesus as a human philosopher but it's a problem if you think him divine and his message eternal and universal.

 

[Simon39759]

But remember that if a person was to have sacrificed his life to save that small girl wasn't christian, he'd go straight to hell.

Yup. That's a just and loving god, isn't it?

In this disgusting world view, Hitler, which was a Christian, is infinitely more likely to go to Heaven than Gandhi... That alone would be enough to turn me away from Christianity...

 

[paximperium]

In this disgusting world view, Hitler, which was a Christian, is infinitely more likely to go to Heaven than Gandhi... That alone would be enough to turn me away from Christianity...

I find this even more disgusting.

If Hitlera murderer is "truly" sincerely sorry he will be forgiven.

 

[Simon39759]

I find this even more disgusting.

I don't have that much problem with that. I mean, sure, Hitler was as bad as they come and sure, part of me would find the idea that he is being punished somewhat comforting.
But, what really gets me, is the suffering of innocents and the idea that, somehow, Gandhi would be deserving of eternal suffering but Hitler would not...

 

[Hokulele]

I don't have that much problem with that. I mean, sure, Hitler was as bad as they come and sure, part of me would find the idea that he is being punished somewhat comforting.
But, what really gets me, is the suffering of innocents and the idea that, somehow, Gandhi would be deserving of eternal suffering but Hitler would not...

Even worse, according to DOC's version of Christianity, the Jews slaughtered in Hitler's concentration camps are currently in hell, whereas the sincerely remorseful Christian Nazi's are in heaven.

 

[L The Detective]

So, I can't use history to support my argument, that doesn't make sense. And your vile language is bringing emotion into this logical debate. If your argument is logically sound you don't need to use that kind of language. So the more you feel the need to use that emotional language the more it leads one to believe your argument is not wholly based on logic.

DOC, you are the one who's beliefs are obviously based on emotion. I'll give you a few examples from the last few pages.

So you want a universe where there is no severe punishment. You want someone like that man who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl or someone like Hitler (who was responsible for the death of 60 million people) not to be severely punished. Joobz should they be severely punished or not.

This is an emotional argument. There is a logical reason for punishment, and that is deterrence of crime, however, it arguably has a muted affect on people who don't plan on being caught, and furthermore a finite amount of punishment should always be enough. The reason you want "severe punishment," is for emotional reasons, you want really evil people to suffer because emotionally it makes you feel better.

What about all the murderers and Nazis who were never caught. I guess according to your way of thinking they got away with murder. Under Christianity, nobody gets away with murder.

This is emotional reasoning. You are saying that you believe the Bible is fact, because emotionally are satisfied that nobody gets away with murder. So what you are saying is a very blatant example of "believe in my set of facts because it will make you feel better."

DOC, all of your religious beliefs are based on emotions, and you then pick and choose facts which support your case and ignore facts that don't. That is not the correct way to use facts, and that's why your arguments aren't logical. They are veiled as logic, but at their heart they are emotional.

Don't play games, DOC. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying because it is emotionally hard for you to hear, be honest with yourself and consider it.

 

[DOC]

DOC, Your use of the holocaust in this example is clearly an attempt at an emotional appeal.

People are phony who complain about me using the Holocaust plain and simple. If people can't handle it emotionally because of their heritage they should stay out of an intellectual debate. I have to believe the real reason is it helps my argument about how something can be kept a secret regarding the killing of the babies in Bethlehem.

 

[Lothian]

Doc

Should someone who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl who is "truly" sincerely sorry get away with murder?

 

[DOC]

Even worse, according to DOC's version of Christianity, the Jews slaughtered in Hitler's concentration camps are currently in hell, whereas the sincerely remorseful Christian Nazi's are in heaven.

Which post do you get this from? It sounds like you just made it up?

 

[paximperium]

People are phony who complain about me using the Holocaust plain and simple.

Keep using that excuse. It just shows the level of vileness you are willing to stoop to.

If people can't handle it emotionally because of their heritage they should stay out of an intellectual debate.

Your entire thread has not one shred of "intellectual debate" coming from you, just lies and stupidity.

You should not be in any conversation with anything even remotely tied to Jesus since you are so emotional about it.

I have to believe the real reason is it helps my argument about how something can be kept a secret regarding the killing of the babies in Bethlehem.

You can believe all you want about your claim which has been completely and utterly demolished and all the evidence would still say that your Bible is wrong about a fictional massacre.

 

[Hokulele]

Which post do you get this from? It sounds like you just made it up?

Do you believe Jews go to heaven?

How about Hindus?

Pagans?

Atheists?

 

[paximperium]

Which post do you get this from? It sounds like you just made it up?

So tell us. What happened to the Jews? What happened to the Christian Nazis who were "genuinely sorry"?

 

[DOC]

Doc

Should someone who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl who is "truly" sincerely sorry get away with murder?

Only God can determine if someone is truly sorry.

And there are sins that are not forgiven. Christ said if you sin against the Holy Spirit you will not be forgiven. That's up to God not me.

 

[Lothian]

Doc

Should someone who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl who is "truly" sincerely sorry get away with murder?

 

[joobz]

People are phony who complain about me using the Holocaust plain and simple.

I'm not complaining about it. You had accused Pax of resorting to emotional appeals and simply called you out on the fact that you too were using an emotional appeal.

Like I said, why use that as an example and not other examples of attrocities? (e.g., crusades, inquisition, genocide in south america by spanish invaders...)

If people can't handle it emotionally because of their heritage they should stay out of an intellectual debate.

??

I have to believe the real reason is it helps my argument about how something can be kept a secret regarding the killing of the babies in Bethlehem.

Not at all. The WWII killing of jews wasn't kept a secret. It was discovered. It was known about well within the time frame of it's occurance. Unlike the Supposed biblical killing which has no evidence.

 

[DOC]

Do you believe Jews go to heaven?

How about Hindus?

Pagans?

Atheists?

Jesus said in John 14:6

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If someone goes through life, without ever hearing about Jesus and his message than I believe a just God will be just. For those who reject Christ and the message well according to Christ you will be damned.