Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[DOC]

Really? Are you sure? How many years? When? 1945 ~ ???? Where?

6 million divided by 365 days (a year) = about 16,440 people a day. Are you saying the Germans killed 16,440 people every day for a year. Or do you think the 6 million deaths happened over several years.

 

[Lothian]

So you want a universe where there is no severe punishment. You want someone like that man who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl or someone like Hitler (who was responsible for the death of 60 million people) not to be severely punished. Joobz should they be severely punished or not.

What about lesser crimes? Should people collecting sticks on a Sunday be killed to please the lord?

 

[six7s]

6 million divided by 365 days (a year) = about 16,440 people a day. Are you saying the Germans killed 16,440 people every day for a year. Or do you think the 6 million deaths happened over several years.

You're the one saying the genocide was hushed up for years

I'm merely asking which years?

 

[joobz]

So you want a universe where there is no severe punishment.

What I want is secondary to what is real. There is no justice in the universe other than what we make of it on earth.

You want someone like that man who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl or someone like Hitler (who was responsible for the death of 60 million people) not to be severely punished. Joobz should they be severely punished or not.

Yes, they should be severely punished by us. And the Nazis were.


Why do you want justice from a god who considers slavery acceptable,the beating of slaves who are unaware of the rules as an apt analogy to his method of governance, and one who places "who you know" as being more important than what you do?

 

[paximperium]

The Holocaust (with a reported 6 million people killed) was kept quiet for years from other Jews and the German masses. If the death of 6 million people can be kept quiet for years in an era of radio and newspapers, why not a couple hundred deaths in a primitive era with no media.

Epic failure and ignorance on your part as usual. The systematic murder of the Jews in Germany was well known to THE JEWS. There were rumors all over the place and it is well documented in multiple diaries of Jews who escaped and heard these things.

Your ignorance and continued pathetic use of the Holacause astounding.

 

[wollery]

The Holocaust (with a reported 6 million Jews killed) was kept quiet for years from other Jews and the German masses. If the death of 6 million people can be kept quiet for years in an era of radio and newspapers, why not in a primitive era of no media.

You're kidding, right?

I mean, you really have to be kidding!

Nobody was unaware that the Jews were being systematically rounded up and shipped away. Nobody.

What people were unaware of was exactly what was happening after that, because the Nazis were very careful to place the concentration camps away from large population centres. The only witnesses were either Nazi guards, who weren't going to tell anyone about what was going on, or the prisoners themselves, who couldn't leave to be able to tell anyone else. As for the secret being kept for years, the exterminations began in 1941, were stepped up in 1942, as a result of the "final solution", and ended in 1945 when the camps were liberated. The secret was (mostly, see later) kept during that time because there were no witnesses to the exterminations able to come forward. As soon as the camps were liberated news began to come out and was broadcast around the world. Here's an internal directive from the BBC about the holocaust, dated 19th April 1945. There are also links on that page to audio file of the news about concentration camps being broadcast just days after their liberation.

Of course, the Polish resistance knew about the camps, as did the UK and US governments, although they didn't make the information widely available, presumably because they couldn't corroborate the stories.

As for "other Jews", whilst they didn't know for certain that the holocaust was happening until the liberation of the camps began, very few had any illusions about what the Nazis wanted, and what they were capable of. My grandmother's cousin was living in the UK during the war, her immediate family had been unable to get out of Germany. Everyone in the family knew that they were extremely unlikely to ever see them again.

Hardly a secret kept for years.

But the worst thing about this post (and seriously it takes a lot to be worse than your factual errors, and dishonest misdirection) is that you are comparing two entirely different situations. On one hand you have the removal of millions of people from their homes, on the pretext of taking them to forced labour camps (a story which was believed by most people largely because it was, in part, true), where they were quietly exterminated, leaving very few witnesses, and none who were free to go anywhere to tell people about it until after the liberation of the camps. On the other you have soldiers coming into a large town, killing all the babies, and then leaving, which certainly allowed the citizens of that town to tell other people about what had happened, within hours of it happening.

You really need to do some research before you start spouting half truths and lies on such well documented subjects.

 

[paximperium]

You really need to do some research before you start spouting half truths and lies on such well documented subjects.

That would be a first for DOC.

 

[wollery]

So you want a universe where there is no severe punishment. You want someone like that man who kidnapped, raped, and buried alive a small girl or someone like Hitler (who was responsible for the death of 60 million people) not to be severely punished. Joobz should they be severely punished or not.

And the problem with that argument is that according to your belief, either of those people could have played a "get out of hell free" card, and spend an eternity in paradise by converting before they died.

Meanwhile, someone who spends their entire life caring for sick children, and never even insulting another human being is doomed to an eternity of torment and pain because they don't follow the right religion.

Lovely.

 

[joobz]

And the problem with that argument is that according to your belief, either of those people could have played a "get out of hell free" card, and spend an eternity in paradise by converting before they died.

Meanwhile, someone who spends their entire life caring for sick children, and never even insulting another human being is doomed to an eternity of torment and pain because they don't follow the right religion.

Lovely.

EXACTLY!

According to the bible:
1.) It's who you know, not what you do that's important.
2.) The ends justify the means (e.g., condoning slavery)
3.) Slave metaphors are considered acceptable descriptions to our relationship with god.

Why would anyone want that????

 

[DOC]

What I want is secondary to what is real. There is no justice in the universe other than what we make of it on earth.


Yes, they should be severely punished by us. And the Nazis were.

What about all the murderers and Nazis who were never caught. I guess according to your way of thinking they got away with murder. Under Christianity, nobody gets away with murder.

 

[paximperium]

What about all the murderers and Nazis who were never caught.

Then they were never caught and we still hunt Nazis today.

I guess according to your way of thinking they got away with murder.

Yes they did. So?

Under Christianity, nobody gets away with murder.

Under your religion you BELIEVE they didn't get away with murder. What you believe isn't neccesarily true.

 

[DOC]

Epic failure and ignorance on your part as usual. The systematic murder of the Jews in Germany was well known to THE JEWS. There were rumors all over the place and it is well documented in multiple diaries of Jews who escaped and heard these things.

Your ignorance and continued pathetic use of the Holacause astounding.

If it was well known, how could 6 million die, that doesn't make sense. And the Holocaust is history. What, you want the Holocaust to be forgot, It should be shouted from the rooftops every chance possible so people don't forget. The people who died certainly wouldn't have wanted it forgotten and hidden.

 

[paximperium]

If it was well known, how could 6 million die, that doesn't make sense.

Because there was an army preventing them from being freed?

And the Holocaust is history.

Yes it is and it should forever be remembered.

What, you want the Holocaust to be forgot,

Are you making up lies again?

It should be shouted from the rooftops every chance possible so people don't forget. The people who died certainly wouldn't have wanted it forgotten and hidden.

Yes it should be but we should also prevent little vile twats from using their deaths to support their little disgusting agendas.

You can keep shouting your fantasy from the rooftops but it sure won't magic it into reality.

How does this little fact make your little delusional masacre anymore real?

 

[Lothian]

What about all the murderers and Nazis who were never caught. I guess according to your way of thinking they got away with murder. Under Christianity, nobody gets away with murder.

or collecting sticks.

Edited to add. I am obviously missing something in my understanding of Christianity I thought a murderer who believes Jesus forgives his sins goes to heaven, and therefore does get away with murder. What have I got wrong? Most Nazis were committed Christians. Are none of them in heaven?

 

[joobz]

What about all the murderers and Nazis who were never caught. I guess according to your way of thinking they got away with murder. Under Christianity, nobody gets away with murder.

what about it? Your last statement is nonsense.
People who ask for forgiveness get away with murder, that's the whole point of christianity. Yet a person who tends to the sick and poor all their life, but does not believe in jesus, goes to hell. You really think this is a moral system of justice?

 

[DOC]

Yes it should be but we should also prevent little vile twats from using their deaths {Holocaust victims} to support their little disgusting agendas.

So, I can't use history to support my argument, that doesn't make sense. And your vile language is bringing emotion into this logical debate. If your argument is logically sound you don't need to use that kind of language. So the more you feel the need to use that emotional language the more it leads one to believe your argument is not wholly based on logic.

ETA: You might have the intellect to be in this debate, but sometimes you seem to not have the emotions to be involved. You know that could be bad for your health and you should consider that.

 

[paximperium]

So, I can't use history to support my argument, that doesn't make sense.

Not if it has NOTHING to do with what you're claming.

And your vile language is bringing emotion into this logical debate. If your argument is logically sound you don't need to use that kind of language. So the more you feel the need to use that emotional language the more it leads one to believe your argument is not wholly based on logic.

I apologize for having emotions and finding it offensive that some ignorant delusional troll would use the deaths of millions to support his fantasy and delusions.

 

[paximperium]

ETA: You might have the intellect to be in this debate, but sometimes you seem to not have the emotions to be involved.

Sorry, I'm human and I have ethics. You make it seem as if feeling offense at your dishonesty is somehow wrong.

You know that could be bad for your health and you should consider that.

I'm very healthy, I run 8miles once a week and hike often. No medical problems. Why don't you worry about the health of your own dirty little "soul"?

 

[wollery]

So, I can't use history to support my argument, that doesn't make sense. And your vile language is bringing emotion into this logical debate. If your argument is logically sound you don't need to use that kind of language. So the more you feel the need to use that emotional language the more it leads one to believe your argument is not wholly based on logic.

You're perfectly free to use historical facts to support your argument.

Any time you feel like doing that, go right ahead.

Currently you're using a very twisted version of history (which is demonstrably wrong), comparing it to something to which it bears no comparison, and making appeals to emotion based on people telling you that you're wrong and that your use of it in your argument is insulting, particularly to people like me who have family who died in those camps!

I have no problem discussing the holocaust in a perfectly civil manner. The facts are there, and anyone who denies them, or tries to twist them can very easily be corrected, as you have been.

So, any chance of you actually addressing the the responses to your argument, or will you continue to cherry-pick the responses that you think make you look good?

 

[DOC]

or collecting sticks.

Edited to add. I am obviously missing something in my understanding of Christianity I thought a murderer who believes Jesus forgives his sins goes to heaven, and therefore does get away with murder. What have I got wrong? Most Nazis were committed Christians. Are none of them in heaven?

If a murderer is "truly" sincerely sorry he will be forgiven. A lot of people say they are sorry but really aren't.

And most of the Nazis were brainwashed by an evil genius who knew how to play on peoples emotions and weaknesses. Hitler was an evil serpent much like another evil serpent in Genesis. Some of the Nazi might have thought they were doing God's will but they were greatly delusional. Even Christ predicts that Christians would be persecuted by those who thought they were doing God's will.