Cuomo's Brownshirts put squeeze on AIG

[Skeptic]

Actually, while there is, surprisingly enough, some archeological evidence the exodus had in fact happened (or something somewhat like it), the Israelite slaves -- presuming, again, there were Israelite slaves -- could not have possibly built the pyramids. If there were any Israelite slaves in Egypt, they were there ca. 1800-1400 B.C. or so; the pyramids were already old at that time, having been built ca. 2700 B.C.

 

[Skeptic]

Labor has inherent value?

If I hire you to tear down a building that's been gutted by fire and come back later in the day to discover dozens of dazed people in wheelchairs all over the street because you have torn down the nursing home next door, what is the inherent value of the work you have done?

Well, just about the same value Leftysergeant's real-world day's labor...

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Actually, while there is, surprisingly enough, some archeological evidence the exodus had in fact happened (or something somewhat like it), the Israelite slaves -- presuming, again, there were Israelite slaves -- could not have possibly built the pyramids. If there were any Israelite slaves in Egypt, they were there ca. 1800-1400 B.C. or so; the pyramids were already old at that time, having been built ca. 2700 B.C.

Not to get too off topic, but are you referring to the Hyksos period?

 

[Skeptic]

Not to get too off topic, but are you referring to the Hyksos period?

(Waves gun)

I'm hijacking this thread to ancient Egypt!

Nobody move!!!

To the point, no -- I am talking about certain Egyptian documents from ca. the time of Ramses II that talk about "foreign" slaves in Egypt which had semitic, Cna'anite names.

Again, I repeat that this is highly speculative.

 

[Skeptic]

Apart from everything else wrong with a centrally-planned economy, people like Leftysergeant (mostly overeducated, underpaid -- in their view -- academics) love central planning not so much because they think it'll be better, but because they believe they would be doing the planning due to their superior "class consciousness", "correct" sort of education, and so on -- while down here on middle earth, in this evil, capitalistic world, nobody listens to them.

The academics and "leftysergeant" live in a wish-fulfilment world of "romantic communism": they see themselves as those who will be in the tiny elite "fighting for the masses" against "exploiting capitalists"; never, God forbid, do they consider themelves as one of the "masses" themselves, which they usually can't stand. It's the same sort of thing as those who wish they lived in the middle ages or ancient Rome -- they invariably imagine themselves as dukes, knights, ladies, as Ceaser or Cleopatra... NEVER as the illiterate peasants, artisans, and slaves that made up 99% of the population.

 

[mhaze]

Apart from mental masturbation and wondering why no one was doing any work? Nothing, and they all would have starved to death on a monument to Ayn Rand built long ago when people actually built stuff instead of imagining objectivist utopias.

The reference question has nothing to do with any utopian dream. At least, I didn't intend to give such an impression, but to show that in many times and places, the guy in the ditch would simply not have built and perfected the alternator.

In a time of serious economic difficulties, Tesla took the only job he could find. Digging ditches. With a shovel in hand he conceived of the electric alternator, while a thousand others used the shovel, and saw only dirt and mud. What if he had gone Galt?

 

[tomwaits]

When Cool Hand Luke dug a ditch, then refilled the ditch, then dug it again, etc etc I suppose he was creating wealth somehow.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

When Cool Hand Luke dug a ditch, then refilled the ditch, then dug it again, etc etc I suppose he was creating wealth somehow.

I'm sorry, I don't have a horse to back in this pointless political tussle, but I've got to say it...

"What's this wealth doin' in tha Boss' yard?"

 

[mhaze]

When Cool Hand Luke dug a ditch, then refilled the ditch, then dug it again, etc etc I suppose he was creating wealth somehow.

Wasn't the currency in that land...

Eggs?

 

[Dr Adequate]

Amusing side issue.

Hypothetical:

I know how to make minimum cost bridges that do not fail.

How do those in Lefty's world induce me to do so, except by pointing a gun at my family?

Society needs what I can do badly. But what do I need from them?

Apparently, absolutely everything except designs for bridges.

EG, why should I not just "Go Galt"?

Would the phrase "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short" mean anything to you?

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Apparently, absolutely everything except designs for bridges.

Allow me to elaborate further on this.

Suppose he can build bridges in his tight-knit community. Another community needs hid bridge building skills desperately but they have nothing to offer him or his community and he or his community already have everything this community has or needs in abundance. How does this group who needs his skills hire him if they have nothing to offer?

For that matter, under typical communist doctrine, how does a man obtain the full value of his labor by working on a bridge he'll never use for a community that he doesn't need?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

To the point, no -- I am talking about certain Egyptian documents from ca. the time of Ramses II that talk about "foreign" slaves in Egypt which had semitic, Cna'anite names.

Again, I repeat that this is highly speculative.

I am always skeptical of speculative history, but interested none the less. The suggestions I've read are that the Hyksos, being Semetic people, freed the Hebrews and facilitated the Exodus. That was gestalt speculation so your documents pique my interest. I'll Google when I have time and bandwidth so back to the actual issue of the thread...

...the guy in the ditch would simply not have built and perfected the alternator.

First off, you shouldn't get your quotes of wisdom from WND or Freep or whatever blog you gleaned that from. Additionally, for someone who decries the "leftistelitistintelligensia" in so many of your posts, it's interesting that you'd embrace an objectivist, elitist and almost Platonic* utopian vision of how society should be striatified. Have you been reading Aldous Huxley as well?

Would the phrase "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short" mean anything to you?

His Craig'slist personal ad?

*I'm referring to The Republic, not guy love or hanging out with your bestest gal pal.

 

[leftysergeant]

If you hire a man for a day, you owe him the value of a day's provisdions, unless he does something so obviously wrong that you can take him to small claims court. If you think that it is right for you to retain people who have not utterly screwed up the job at less than a living wage, you are demanding a subsidy from them, and they have no reason to give it to you. If a man's work is not worth a day's provisions, why would you keep him on for more than a day unless you are utterly retarded and not qualified to run a business?

If you need someone there, day after day, you owe him a day's provisions for every day he shows up.

If it is not worth it to you to pay someone a day's provisons to do a particular job, then it must be so insignificant that you could add it to someone else's job description or do it yourself. Let the brick mason, who makes about two days's provisions a day dig his own foundations...

Oh, that's not an efficient use of the brick mason's time? Then hire a ditch digger and pay him a day's provisions.

(Have somebody watch him for at least a little while, or hire someone you know can dig ditches. Otherwise, don't whine to me about the chutzpah of this man demanding a living wage.)

 

[leftysergeant]

The suggestions I've read are that the Hyksos, being Semetic people, freed the Hebrews and facilitated the Exodus. That was gestalt speculation so your documents pique my interest. I'll Google when I have time and bandwidth so back to the actual issue of the thread...

The Hyksos were not a single tribe. The Hebrews were related to the Hyksos. That's why they were later oppressed, for revenge.

And Socrates had it coming. He was a proto-fascist.

 

[Cobalt]

If you hire a man for a day, you owe him the value of a day's provisdions, unless he does something so obviously wrong that you can take him to small claims court. If you think that it is right for you to retain people who have not utterly screwed up the job at less than a living wage, you are demanding a subsidy from them, and they have no reason to give it to you. If a man's work is not worth a day's provisions, why would you keep him on for more than a day unless you are utterly retarded and not qualified to run a business?

No, wrong. Thanks for playing.

If you need someone there, day after day, you owe him a day's provisions for every day he shows up.

Wrong. The job does not belong to him. He should get paid only for what the labor he did is actually worth, not more or less as mandated by the government or some internet wannabe. If someone else can do it better for less money, he's boned anyway.

If it is not worth it to you to pay someone a day's provisons to do a particular job, then it must be so insignificant that you could add it to someone else's job description or do it yourself. Let the brick mason, who makes about two days's provisions a day dig his own foundations...

Who the hell decides what "provisions' are necessary anyway? The government? Internet badass wannabes?

Oh, that's not an efficient use of the brick mason's time? Then hire a ditch digger and pay him a day's provisions.

No, again, you pay what it's worth. Not some un-defined number determined by pathetic wannabe defenders of the "little guy."

(Have somebody watch him for at least a little while, or hire someone you know can dig ditches. Otherwise, don't whine to me about the chutzpah of this man demanding a living wage.)

Oddly enough, the only one I see whining is you. If he's saying he can dig a good ditch, and digs a **** ditch, or doesn't dig a ditch at all, and that is precisely why I hired him, I don't owe him a ****ing thing.

 

[BPSCG]

If you hire a man for a day, you owe him the value of a day's provisdions,

You have not established that all work is worth a day's provisions. You have in fact acknowledged elsewhere that some work is not worth a day's provisions.

unless he does something so obviously wrong that you can take him to small claims court.

This is the fallacy of the excluded middle. If we assume that a day's provisions (food, clothing, and shelter) is, say $250, you are staking out the ground that there is no middle ground between work that is destructive and costs the employer money (fouling up the brick wall, mistakenly tearing down the nursing home), and work that is worth $250. You are stating that work is either utterly worthless, or is worth at least $250, with no possibility of its being worth anything in between. This is nonsense.

If you think that it is right for you to retain people who have not utterly screwed up the job at less than a living wage, you are demanding a subsidy from them, and they have no reason to give it to you.

I demand nothing. Free men in free markets can not demand anything. I can ask a man to work for $100 a day, and he can ask that I pay him $500. But in a free market, I can no more compel him to take $100 than he can compel me to pay $500. If, as free men, we agree on a price for his labor, that means we have agreed that the value of his labor is that price - not some artificial and meaningless "day's provisions" standard.

And if we don't agree on a price for his labor, he is free to take his labor to someone else and try to sell it to that person. Just as I am free to try to find someone who will work for the price I am willing to pay for his labor.

If a man's work is not worth a day's provisions, why would you keep him on for more than a day unless you are utterly retarded and not qualified to run a business?

Because it is worth something - just not as much as you think it is.

 

[BPSCG]

Most Americans Are Idiots

National Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
Conducted March 20-21, 2009
By Rasmussen Reports

Congress is considering a law that would place a 90 percent tax on bonuses paid by AIG and other firms that received bailout money. Do you favor or oppose a 90% tax on bonuses paid by AIG and other firms that received bailout money?

57% Favor
35% Oppose
8% Not sure
​

National Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
Conducted March 22-23, 2009
By Rasmussen Reports

Does Congress have the right to raise taxes on all Americans retroactively?
9% Yes
81% No
10% Not sure

Fifty-seven percent of Americans favor raising taxes on AIG employees retroactively, while 81% say Congress does not have the power to raise taxes on Americans retroactively.

And they can vote, and they can breed...

 

[Cobalt]

In before lefty agreeing.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Fifty-seven percent of Americans favor raising taxes on AIG employees retroactively, while 81% say Congress does not have the power to raise taxes on Americans retroactively.

No, 81% say Congress does not have the right to raise taxes on all Americans retroactively.

And they can vote, and they can breed...

And many of them can understand simple English sentences.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Allow me to elaborate further on this.

Suppose he can build bridges in his tight-knit community. Another community needs hid bridge building skills desperately but they have nothing to offer him or his community and he or his community already have everything this community has or needs in abundance. How does this group who needs his skills hire him if they have nothing to offer?

Obviously, you cannot hire someone with no interest in making money. Maybe at that point they should go looking for someone who designs bridges for a living.

But I fail to see the relevance of your question.

For that matter, under typical communist doctrine, how does a man obtain the full value of his labor by working on a bridge he'll never use for a community that he doesn't need?

I am not an expert on communism: but I believe that the government pays him to do it.

This question also seems somewhat irrelevant to my post.