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Simple fluoride question

Tomblvd said:
That doesn't answer my question. Why don't you feel we should be intentionally adding calcium fluoride? Haven't we already determined it isn't dangerous?
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I just don't like the idea of intentionally adding anything to water, but it does seem that calcium fluoride would be better then silicofluorides.
 
kageki said:
I just don't like the idea of intentionally adding anything to water, but it does seem that calcium fluoride would be better then silicofluorides.
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Fine, you have every right to oppose the addition of substances to drinking water. In the US, every municipality chooses whether or not to fluoridate their own water.

Given the opportunity for demagogery, I'd still have it no other way.

I'm glad we have determined that the presence of fluoride ions in water at or around the recommended level, is not dangerous.
 
Tomblvd said:
Fine, you have every right to oppose the addition of substances to drinking water. In the US, every municipality chooses whether or not to fluoridate their own water.

Given the opportunity for demagogery, I'd still have it no other way.

I'm glad we have determined that the presence of fluoride ions in water at or around the recommended level, is not dangerous.
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Just so you know most European countries and others are opposed or have banned fluoridation.

The NRC recommends that the EPA lower the standards. This still doesn't mean adding silicofluorides is a good thing.

You really should read that report. I can tell you haven't.
 
kageki said:
Just so you know most European countries and others are opposed or have banned fluoridation.


The NRC recommends that the EPA lower the standards. This still doesn't mean adding silicofluorides is a good thing.

You really should read that report. I can tell you haven't.
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So everything you've admitted goes out the window?

I finally get you to admit that fluoride ions are not dangerous, and you try to change the subject.

And yes, I've read the report, but more importantly, being a scientist (DMD), I've understood it.
 
Tomblvd said:
So everything you've admitted goes out the window?

I finally get you to admit that fluoride ions are not dangerous, and you try to change the subject.

And yes, I've read the report, but more importantly, being a scientist (DMD), I've understood it.
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Where did I say fluoride ions are not dangerous?

You seem to be the one that keeps changing the subject, to natural fluoride, instead of the real issue of adding silicofluorides.
 
kageki said:
You seem to be the one that keeps changing the subject, to natural fluoride, instead of the real issue of adding silicofluorides.
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Ahem. You're the one that brought up "natural" fluoride in the first place!

kageki said:
To set the record straight on this matter, natural fluoride and the fluoride they put in the water is different.
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And now that you're practically admitting you were misinformed about that, you're dodging over to fluorosilicates, without even slowing down to ask yourself if you just might not be sufficiently informed about that!

It's like pulling ... errr ... nah, even I'm above that pun ...
 
kageki said:
Where did I say fluoride ions are not dangerous?
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"I just don't like the idea of intentionally adding anything to water, but it does seem that calcium fluoride would be better then silicofluorides."

If it is "better", it can't be dangerous, can it? Otherwise, what are you talking about?

You seem to be the one that keeps changing the subject, to natural fluoride, instead of the real issue of adding silicofluorides.
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Sigh. Let's try this again.

There. is. no. such. thing. as. natural. fluoride.

Given a test tube of fluoride ions taken from calcuim fluoride and a test tube of fluoride ions taken from sodium fluoride, you would not be able to tell the two apart. They are completely, totally, absolutely identical.

There is no subject to change, we are discussing the fluoride ion. You are the one to try to make some "natural" and some "artificial".
 
Mr.D said:
Ahem. You're the one that brought up "natural" fluoride in the first place!



And now that you're practically admitting you were misinformed about that, you're dodging over to fluorosilicates, without even slowing down to ask yourself if you just might not be sufficiently informed about that!

It's like pulling ... errr ... nah, even I'm above that pun ...
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You're misunderstanding.

Misinformed about what? They don't use natural fluoride as in calcium fluoride for artificial water fluoridation.
 
Tomblvd said:
"I just don't like the idea of intentionally adding anything to water, but it does seem that calcium fluoride would be better then silicofluorides."

If it is "better", it can't be dangerous, can it? Otherwise, what are you talking about?



Sigh. Let's try this again.

There. is. no. such. thing. as. natural. fluoride.

Given a test tube of fluoride ions taken from calcuim fluoride and a test tube of fluoride ions taken from sodium fluoride, you would not be able to tell the two apart. They are completely, totally, absolutely identical.

There is no subject to change, we are discussing the fluoride ion. You are the one to try to make some "natural" and some "artificial".
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Natural fluoride compounds.
 
kageki said:
Just so you know most European countries and others are opposed or have banned fluoridation.
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While I'm not going to get into the discussion of who does and doesn't have fluoridated water because it is a political and not a scientific decision, I would like to point out that many european countries, as well as countries all over the world, instead offer fluoridated salt? (much like the US has iodized salt).

Do you know what salt of fluoride these enlightened europeans use?

That's right, the dreaded, highly toxic, 'artificial', SODIUM FLUORIDE!

How can this be???
 
Tomblvd said:
While I'm not going to get into the discussion of who does and doesn't have fluoridated water because it is a political and not a scientific decision, I would like to point out that many european countries, as well as countries all over the world, instead offer fluoridated salt? (much like the US has iodized salt).

Do you know what salt of fluoride these enlightened europeans use?

That's right, the dreaded, highly toxic, 'artificial', SODIUM FLUORIDE!

How can this be???
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Right the same sodium fluoride (pharmaceutical grade) used in toothpaste that you are not supposed to swallow.

Silicofluorides are used for water fluoridation now.
 
kageki said:
Right the same sodium fluoride (pharmaceutical grade) used in toothpaste that you are not supposed to swallow.
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You mean you aren't supposed to swallow salt!?

Now they tell me.


Silicofluorides are used for water fluoridation now.
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What, since this afternoon? You were talking about nothing other than sodium fluoride up until.......about now. Funny how that suddenly changes when you find out fluoridated salt uses sodium fluoride.

What else were you wrong about?

Oh yea, they DON'T only use silicofluorides for water fluoridation, some water companies still use sodium fluoride.
 
Tomblvd said:
You mean you aren't supposed to swallow salt!?

Now they tell me.




What, since this afternoon? You were talking about nothing other than sodium fluoride up until.......about now. Funny how that suddenly changes when you find out fluoridated salt uses sodium fluoride.

What else were you wrong about?

Oh yea, they DON'T only use silicofluorides for water fluoridation, some water companies still use sodium fluoride.
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Sodium fluoride is not sodium chloride.

What? I've mentioned silicofluorides several times.

A majority use silicofluorides now.
 
kageki said:
Sodium fluoride is not sodium chloride.
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No, but you made a point of mentioning that europe doesn't fluoridate their water (you said ban, but it's a political thing). You also mentioned time and again how toxic sodium fluoride was. I then told you that many countries around the world put sodium or potassium fluoride in their salt to give the population their fluoride. Of course, like so many things, you didn't know that.

So now you are stuck with supporting the europeans putting toxic sodium fluoride in their salt.

What? I've mentioned silicofluorides several times.
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And you've suddenly forgotten sodium fluoride.

I wonder why?

A majority use silicofluorides now.
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Is there a reason after 11 pages you are suddenly bringing that fact up now?
 
kageki, a question, now that you know some of the europeans use sodium fluoride in their salt, are you now convinced of it's saftey at the levels used?
 
kageki said:
Mr.D said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine#Toxicity
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine#Deficiency
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Umm. I have no idea how this helps your argument in any way, shape or form. You claimed that "If something is toxic then it's toxic. Why would the amount matter? It's still toxic isn't it?" How do you reconcile that statement with an article that notes Iodine is both necessary and toxic?

Which is wrong? Your statement about what toxicity means or the Wikipedia article?
 
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