So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

kurious_kathy said:
But people are not always making good choices, why shouldn't Christians speak up about that? I was once blind to certain things being sin like abortion and I went through that too because in my mind before I got saved if it was legal then it should be okay. Well now I know it's not right in God's eyes so I have had a change of mind and heart. (IN essence I have changed sides) NowI know the devastation that comes from being post abortive and it's never something that doesn't damage a person, never! Sorry I know this battle and it is an ugly one. Yes God gave us free will but killing unborn babies is just ugly and we are accountable for it. I was pro-chocie before I got saved, now I am pro-life and involved in the healing process for post abortive women/ and men. Many men do not talk about it but they go through the pain after an abortion too. Do not kid yourself, abortion is very BAD and to have legalized abortions and have government give money to it is horrible.

Then we must deal with why people think it's a good way to do birth control? It's not. I found out after I was just trying to cover up my sin and God made me deal with it and confess so I can be forgiven. Jesus says if we confess our sins he is faithful to forgive us. Boy do I wish more people were like that instead of throwing it back in your face. I have confessed and know Jesus forgives me but now I know what Godly sorrow is. I can never undo the damage sin has caused me but I have a promise from God that he can and does forgive me. Better to confess now than be judged later!
Click to expand...


Sounds to me like you've never gotten over the guilt for murdering your child and are manifesting it in your religious beliefs. That's not that uncommon.
 
MIKILLINI said:
Let's go back in time just a bit..Back to the Garden of Eden. Soon after Adam and Eve had been created, they were informed by God to not eat from the tree of knowledge conveniently located in the garden center.

Now here is a very questionable judgement call: God creates a tree that would cause man great suffering and sorrow if A&E ate from it, thereby causing the condemnation of his creation.

How wise is that? If God so loves you, why would he leave the possibility of misery and death available in the garden? Why did he not warn A&E of Lucifer? You know, Lucifer, the adversary who convinced many angels to turn against God? Didn't God know Lucifer would come around and try to deceive A&E? How much death, destruction and subsequent everlasting punishment would have been eliminated if that one single tree was not in the garden?
Why leave the possible chance of sin available to man?
Click to expand...
Well there's a question I never heard before. I have asked plenty of times why God even created Lucifer when he knew what would happen but I never throught of the tree? Either way I do not know those answers. I hope someday in heaven it will be clearer to me but for now I just have to learn to trust God knows what he's doing with all of this mess. Seems he's after developing better character in us if you ask me. He seems to want us to love him back enough that we want to obey him but it seems in this life we will always struggle with this issue.
 
How can they not know what they are doing is wrong and evil?
Click to expand...

You do not want the answer to this. You've clearly found a way to cope with this already and it is not by facing the ugly nature of things as they are.

if you are claiming to be good on your own merit it does not work.
Click to expand...

I don't claim to be anything.

We can only avoid Gods judgement through accepting Christ, there is no other way.
Click to expand...

As I said before: if justice is important one should not seek to undermine it by avoiding it. Hence if I believed that divine justice is important I would find it more honourable to face it then to avoid it.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Well there's a question I never heard before. I have asked plenty of times why God even created Lucifer when he knew what would happen but I never throught of the tree? Either way I do not know those answers. I hope someday in heaven it will be clearer to me but for now I just have to learn to trust God knows what he's doing with all of this mess. Seems he's after developing better character in us if you ask me. He seems to want us to love him back enough that we want to obey him but it seems in this life we will always struggle with this issue.
Click to expand...

Additionally, KuriousKathy- Why did he lie to Adam and Eve?
He claimed that eating the fruit would kill them. That was not true.

Why did God not foresee having to make a Great Flood?

The best answer you can come up with is "I don't know but I'll blindly believe it anyway"?

And you talk about OTHER people being blind?!

SHAMELESS!
 
Hokulele said:
Because some private issues are just none of their damn business.
Click to expand...
Some issues are too private to want to share but I hope to give other post abortive woman love and support as we all need it. Some of the best lessons in life seem to be the hardest ones. I wish I could honestly say I have no regrets, but I do. If I knew then what I know now I would choose to do most everything different. The good thing now is I have hope I never had before and I guess that's what spurs me on to hopefully give that hope to others.
 
truethat said:
Ok so let me ask you this. If God lets us reap what we sow then why don't you?

In case you missed it, Most of us are fully aware of what God thinks of us. We get it, we're going to hell.

For some people you are willing to let a person DIE in order to save your ass. For some of us we would not want a man's blood on our hands, we reject the game, we reject the "sacrifice, we reject God's need of a blood sacrifice, we reject all of these things as inherently evil.

If you choose to worship, obey and follow evil, that is up to you Kathy, but the rest of us have said no dice. Human dignity is not something to be trifled with.

I do not accept that an almighty creator needed to execute a fellow human being, be that babies or Jesus, in order to forgive us for our sins.


If God can't find a way to forgive people without murder then **** him. I will not be party to the death of another person in order to save my ass.

I'd rather burn. :j2:


Is that clearer?


We all know that we are going to die. For some frightened people they are willing to execute and murder for a chance at the afterlife. For others, we respect the human dignity, however fleeting, however momentary is a greater gift than that of eternal life given by a sadistic evil entity.
Click to expand...


Here ya go again Kathy, care to address this? :k:
 
Neverfly said:
Additionally, KuriousKathy- Why did he lie to Adam and Eve?
He claimed that eating the fruit would kill them. That was not true.

Why did God not foresee having to make a Great Flood?

The best answer you can come up with is "I don't know but I'll blindly believe it anyway"?

And you talk about OTHER people being blind?!

SHAMELESS!
Click to expand...

As long as a religious-type person is fielding questions, I have one for you:

So Adam and Eve are the first two humans, and they have two children, Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel and God punishes Cain by, among other things, exiling him from Eden.

Now here's the part that I always found amusing: "Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, [f] east of Eden."

If there's only Adam, Eve, and Cain on the planet, who was Cain going to run into? Somehow he manages to find a wife and have a kid. Where did these other people come from?
 
Last edited:
Many men do not talk about it but they go through the pain after an abortion too.
Click to expand...

Off topic and as an aside... I can vouch for this.

Men DO confide in close friends and I can't count on both hands how many many I have watched struggle with that.
When you see a Paul Bunyan look alike just finally crack and breakdown crying like a child, it's not a pretty sight.

When I was in Bosna i Herzegovina in the Army, we had one soldier shipped back home within 24 hours on emergency leave when his unborn child was endangered. The command KNEW that was that important.
The baby did not survive and the soldier that came back was no longer the same person. It took him at least a good year before he began coming back out of his shell.

I'd never publicly admit that I held a crying father when his child died-- so I won't admit it.
 
Last edited:
Kathy, I see you focused on abortions, but completely missed other parts of the question. And an important one is: homosexuality.

According to actual research and very visible on MRI scans: those people are physically wired like the opposite sex, and the triggered lobes and reactions are those of the opposite sex. That wiring is something formed while they're in the womb.

Do you understand that?

Let me repeat it: a _lot_ of men are born with a woman-type brain, and a _lot_ of women are born with a man-type brain. For no sin or choice of their own.

(Unless you want to argue that it's possible to assign moral responsibility to a foetus.)

Why does God make these people like that, then promise to burn them in Hell for something _He_ did to them? Why does He tell other people to victimize them?

Or if it's a "bug", why doesn't God fix it instead of blaming the victims? Why doesn't He accept responsibility for what _He_ caused to those people?

The whole thing is as stupid as if, say, Microsoft tried to sue you because their programs crashed on your computer.
 
kurious_kathy said:
But people are not always making good choices, why shouldn't Christians speak up about that?
Click to expand...


Because it's not up to you to say which are good and not-so-good choices? Because when you seek to be the judge of goodness or evil that makes you an arrogant ass? Because an obnoxious Christian is an obnoxious Christian no matter their intent? There are plenty of sound reasons Christians should just mind their own business.

I was once blind to certain things being sin like abortion and I went through that too because in my mind before I got saved if it was legal then it should be okay. Well now I know it's not right in God's eyes so I have had a change of mind and heart. (IN essence I have changed sides) NowI know the devastation that comes from being post abortive and it's never something that doesn't damage a person, never! Sorry I know this battle and it is an ugly one. Yes God gave us free will but killing unborn babies is just ugly and we are accountable for it.
Click to expand...


Your god kills unborn babies. Thousands every day. But your willful ignorance won't let you acknowledge it.

I was pro-chocie before I got saved, now I am pro-life and involved in the healing process for post abortive women/ and men. Many men do not talk about it but they go through the pain after an abortion too. Do not kid yourself, abortion is very BAD and to have legalized abortions and have government give money to it is horrible.
Click to expand...


In your unsubstantiated opinion. But then again, you've already shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that your opinion isn't generally rational. Heck even other Christians find you offensive, kathy.

Then we must deal with why people think it's a good way to do birth control? It's not. I found out after I was just trying to cover up my sin and God made me deal with it and confess so I can be forgiven. Jesus says if we confess our sins he is faithful to forgive us. Boy do I wish more people were like that instead of throwing it back in your face. I have confessed and know Jesus forgives me but now I know what Godly sorrow is. I can never undo the damage sin has caused me but I have a promise from God that he can and does forgive me. Better to confess now than be judged later!
Click to expand...


Wait. We're being judged now. By you. You're a pathetic creature, kathy, weak, incapable, requiring a delusion to give you strength. Your arrogant judgement of others as unworthy seems to make you feel worthy. You can't possibly be unaware that you, the religious, are more offensive than the religion. (Well, okay. Yes, you can.)
 
kurious_kathy said:
Some issues are too private to want to share but I hope to give other post abortive woman love and support as we all need it. Some of the best lessons in life seem to be the hardest ones. I wish I could honestly say I have no regrets, but I do. If I knew then what I know now I would choose to do most everything different. The good thing now is I have hope I never had before and I guess that's what spurs me on to hopefully give that hope to others.
Click to expand...

You shattered Obama's record for most placements of "hope" in a single paragraph.

On a more serious note, I had a roommate who accidentally became pregnant when she was in high school. She was from a VERY religious family, so they naturally did the compassionate thing and shipped her off to Germany so that no one else would know she had sullied herself in the eyes of god.

When she gave birth they made her put the kid up for adoption. When her parents would come and visit they would enevitably try to "share the good news" with me.

If you believe that the confused writings of inconsequential dessert nomads are more important than the love and understanding you show your own children, I have no time for you.

Now of course the religious will say "they aren't true christians, but it's interesting to me how often those that communicate with the supposed creator of the universe consistently make such obnoxious mistakes.
 
I find the "anti-catholic" attitude of born-again christians quite amusing. It's like an emo-goth kid explaining to T-Rex what real rock'n'roll is.
 
Well, I can only presume that my apathy towards Heaven and Hell has confused KK enough.

Which is awesome.
 
TraneWreck said:
I meant Kathy, sorry, it was unclear.

But anyone is welcome to jump in with a story. Are we all actually the decendents of Adam and Eve?
Click to expand...

<chuckle> You had me goin' there.. I was scratching my head.


Actually, there ARE others mentioned in the scriptures aside from just Adam and Eve. Just not all at one time.
So a particularly knowledgeable and wiggly Christian can squirm out of your question.

In other words, there already (according to scripture) were people outside of Eden. Additionally, God created more people than just Adam and Eve. They were just the first on that particular day or somethin'

What really gets tricky though, is that by eating the fruit, Adam and Eve then somehow- magically- Like killing King Vampire and all vampires bitten by him are affected...- made everyone else a smarty sinner too.
Which I cannot figure that one out if one sticks to a literal interpretation.

It's quite clear that the story of Adam and Eve is a hodge podge of many different stories. And not a well woven one at that.
 
joobz said:
I find the "anti-catholic" attitude of born-again christians quite amusing. It's like an emo-goth kid explaining to T-Rex what real rock'n'roll is.
Click to expand...

I was in an intoductory philosophy course my freshman year of college. I went to a state school in the bible belt, so conceptual discussions had a way of working their way back to the glory of Jesus.

Out of 20 or so students, at least 15 of them were serious Christians. One was a Mormon. The Christ-o's were talking about how silly mormonism was--the salamander letter, the undies, all the stupid stuff. The mormon kid was sitting quietly, letting them ramble on.

Finally he raised his hand and said, "So you guys believe that two thousand years ago some guy walked around bringing people back from the dead and walking on water?"

The christians say, "yes."

"And that he was executed and came back to life three days later?"

"Yes."

"And his death wiped away all your sin?"

"Yes."

"well hell, if you believe all that, why not believe a few more things?"

One other student, the professor, and I fell out of our chairs laughing. The prof had to go out into the hall to get his composure back. The others didn't understand why we were laughing.
 
sleepy_lioness said:
Kathy,

If the Christian God exists - and, like you, I happen to believe He does, though I think my image of him is rather different from yours - then, we are told, he is great in compassion, mercy and love beyond anything we can possibly imagine.

How dare we, with our meagre intellects and stunted abilities to love, second-guess what His attitude might be towards anyone else on earth? Don't you think that He cares far more for the atheists on here that you ever will? Don't you think that they (we), in our own separate ways, might be searching for the truth using their (our) God-given intellect and humanity in ways which might get them closer to it than we are? Don't you think there are many paths to God and to ultimate truth?

I'm going to quote the whole of the passage from Harry Williams's 'The Pearl of Great Price', which I cited above:

'... at the very least this means that the kingdom [of heaven] is not something which can be immediately presented to you on a plate, so that all you have to do is to put it in your pocket and feel good. You will find many devout Christians who have forgotten what Jesus said and who will present the kingdom of heaven to you in exactly this way. It means, they will tell you, adhesion to a given form of doctrinal orthodoxy. Believe this, that and the other, and there, you've got the kingdom. But you haven't got it. All you've got is an excuse to stop looking for it. You may commend the views you have thus accepted with passionate earnestness and zeal, but these may only show that deep down you are afraid that you have been fobbed off with an artificial pearl. All fanaticism is a strategy to prevent doubt from becoming conscious. And meanwhile the apparent agnostic infidel in the rooms above may in his own manner still be seeking for the kingdom of heaven, while you aren't.'

I find this a very compelling passage. It seems to me to get the essence of Jesus's summation of the whole of the Law as loving God and loving one's neighbour as oneself. Nothing in there about 'converting' your neighbour or damning them or hectoring them with your own interpretation of what belief is.

Again, if God exists, he is greater and bigger than we can possibly imagine (as St Paul said, we now see through a glass darkly). All we can do is create our own images of Him and try to imagine what He might be like. These images can be very helpful; indeed, they are the only way we can understand Him. Yet because we, unavoidably, live in sin, they can also be very unhelpful and can actually act to separate us from His love. When our images of God start to distance us from His love, from our own desires and needs and, perhaps most of all, from other people, it might be time to look again at them and to wonder if we haven't created a false God, an idol after our own unhappiest personality traits.

Ahem. End of sermon. I don't want to preach on JREF (or anywhere else), but Kathy, your posts have been upsetting me and I wanted to share with you my own vision of Christianity. Would be happy to discuss via PM if you want.
Click to expand...
Actually no there is only one path to know God, it's through Jesus and only him. He is the one who reveals the truth to our soul. And yes I think he must reach an intellectual or indivual on a level they can understand. How he does it I'm not sure but I do believe faith only comes by hearing God's Word. It's up to each of us to believe and receive it so I do not know what it might take for someone to get to that point.

People believe all kinds of things that people teach but for some the Bible just doesn't fit what they want so they throw it out of there list of books to go by. I say this is a big mistake but I guess it's up to each person to choose for themselves. Not all will get it, I know that but I can hope so. Do you believe that all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved or don't you? I do!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom