So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

EventHorizon said:
It's incredible to me that someone can think being human and having human emotions is sinful.
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That's the primary method religions use to get control of the believer. Talk them into shame for being human, and then offer the carrot of forgiveness.
 
paximperium said:
To the rest of humanity, your hypocrisy and double standard are obvious, black and white, no contest.
So did Prophet Muhammad and Joseph Smith, so what?
That was the most absurd and retarded self contradicting garbage I've ever read. In summary of KK's logic, "God really cares about Free will and allows humans Free Will to reject god BUT you must first surrender Free Will to accept God or you will be damned."

If this was the case, your god is not only an ass but is completely and utterly evil.

Wow, your god is arrogant and ever so jealous. Sad.
Yup, Mary is nothing more than some little girl that YHWH raped. Nothing more.
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She's just the collateral damage of the Redemption of Kathy. We all know the world was created for just this event.
 
"And you guys cannot discount the cannon of scripture as nothing as it has been proven to be true history and accurate! I pray the Lord lifts the veil from your eyes!"

The Bible proven to be history? Who exactly has "proved" this? The Pope? Oral Roberts? There is little or no record from any outside sources for anything in your Great Big Book of Sky Daddy Fairy Tales. There might be some good ideas in there,but it's NOT a history book. Not an instrution manual,either,for that matter.
 
kurious_kathy said:
No one but Jesus lived a sinless perfect life. He was the only acceptable sacrifice to redeem this lost world. God requires holiness which only Jesus is. Jesus did not claim to be a prophet, he said he was God!

Mohammad even admited he could not live a perfect holy life and had doubts about himself and his faith.
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If Jesus was sinless he could not have been Human so the whole Crucifixion was just a puppet show. Since God can't die and by your own admission Jesus's Human persona was just a facade then no one has died for you and you are still in your sins.
 
LostAngeles said:
She was conceived without sin (that is, sex). The immaculate conception refers to her conception and not Jesus's.
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ETA: Sorry, Lost, I missed CurtC's response, pithier than mine. Also, quite a few of the posts you made in this thread made me smile. Thanks.

Not quite. It ain't that simple: most Catholic doctrine isn't. I am being a bit nit picky here, but the sex = sin statement is incorrect. Sex does not necessarily equal sin even in Catholic doctrine. Context matters. Also, like in a lot of things, exceptions get made here and there. It's a bit of doctrine that was, as far as I can tell, put together after her death.

The Imacculate Conception bit -- aka the premise that Mary was put into her place on earth as the unstained vessel who would carry the divine/human half breed Jesus -- places Mary into Eve's ideal role before Eve at the apple. Eve and Adam, kind enough to pass permanent sin along to all subsequet offspring as the concept fleshes out, are going to be overtaken by an event that (like a modern test tube baby event) get's that guy and his rutting out of the picture. But first, a pure chalice must be crafted, for whatever reason. Mary becomes that chalice.

The way I understand all this is to paint a conceptual picture wherein Mary's mom and dad are doing that conceiving activity, during which time they were placed in a particular state of grace. (Would this improve or degrade the sensual experience? No idea.)

Thus, conceived without sin ....

FWIW

DR
 
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kurious_kathy said:
Well just because you don't believe in sin does not prove there is none. Why should I believe that?

Evil is everything unholy or pure which is obviously everywhere in this world as we know it. We fall short of Gods standard all the time in this world, he did not intend it to become this way but he knew it would when Adam and Eve disobeyed. I do get upset because after that everyone was doomed but Jesus made a way and that is good news.

I define evil as to what the Bible says is evil. Start with the 10 Commandments first, then in the New Testament defines what the deeds of the flesh are verses the deeds of the spirit... Gal. 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
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Your list of sins tells us a lot about you.

I hope you live long enough to enjoy them all. You know you want to.
 
Robin said:
I don't mind the suggestion that I am so completely evil that I deserve nothing less than an eternity of torture.

What I find a little bemusing, though, is the suggestion that if I cap off this villany by one final act of cowardice and wriggle out of my just punishment on a technicality, I am thereby deserving of an eternity of blissful reward.
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I've often wondered what kind of a coward would let someone else die for a crime he committed.
 
kurious_kathy said:
No one but Jesus lived a sinless perfect life. He was the only acceptable sacrifice to redeem this lost world. God requires holiness which only Jesus is. Jesus did not claim to be a prophet, he said he was God!

Mohammad even admited he could not live a perfect holy life and had doubts about himself and his faith.
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Mohammed was a professional thief, living by robbing caravans, which would involve murdering the members of the caravans.
He was a serial rapist, pederast, and all around bad egg, and that was -after- he got religion! It's in the book!
Many of the leaders of religions find the access to pussy to be a prime attraction for being the leader, to say nothing of the worldly goods they have a "right" to,.. the helicopters and jets, his-and-her condos around the world, limosines, perfectly tailored clothes, money normal people dream of, but wouldn't steal, like these guys do.
 
elbe said:
So Jesus hates it when people acknowledge his mother and wants to prevent her from having any glory, huh? That's some example he's setting.
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FWIW, Kathy is wrong about a number of things, to include what you responded to there. ;)
Cheers.

DR
 
truethat said:
Actually I take offense to the gospel for a few reasons. Basically I don't like God, he seems like a total jerk if what is written in the bible is true. I don't like the gospel because Jesus asks us to worship this God. I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem if Jesus followed a different God.

Here's what I find offensive.


I find it offensive that God created human beings and then "went off" and left them in the Garden of Eden alone with the serpent who then cajoled Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. I find this offensive because according to God he is all knowing and omnipresent, in which case he knew what was going down with the serpent and made no effort to protect his creatures. He then punished them for eternity for eating a piece of fruit because they disobeyed. Mmmmmkay

Next I find the bible offensive because God has murdered babies on many occasions to make a point. In Egypt for example when Pharaoh wouldn't let the Jews leave, God murdered all the first born children in the land. Now collateral damage aside I don't see how this was fair at all. An innocent baby has no culpability. Furthermore, it didn't say "all children" it said "all firstborns" which means that children who had grown older were murdered as well for no reason. If it also means men who were the firstborn then God murdered the fathers in many families and left widows to fend for themselves. I consider this a very stupid and cruel God especially since "He's GOD" if he could part the waters of the Red Sea to allow people to escape why didn't he just poof the Jews into a beautiful pre made city and be done with it.

I don't like this God because he condones stoning people to death which I think is horrific both on the part of the people doing the stoning, and the person being stoned. I think when someone encourages his children to do evil acts then that says something about the character of this leader. So for example stoning is God's instruction for someone who had sex outside of marriage? Or spoke back to his parents? Pretty barbaric God.

Which leads me to the next thing, BLOOD SACRIFICE. I usually can go along with the new revamped version of the Jesus love until we get to this sticking point, and when discussing this with Christians you usually see the shutters come down over the eyes at this point and a numb dumb....."I don't know why, he just needed one...." The idea that Jesus's death in some way appeased an angry God who needed a blood sacrifice to atone for the sin he allowed to happen in the first place, is sadistic and evil. Flat out evil.

I don't worship evil, and I don't worship spiritual leaders who justify evil. I'm sure Kathy you'd have more success forming a group of Nazi fans and Saddam Hussein supporters, because I think that people throughout history have had an uncanny habit of flocking to evil and somehow being awed by its power. In my humble opinion people like you are no different.
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I understand your thinking in humanistic terms as all suffering seems wrong but God has a purpose for everything he allows. I certainly do not like some of what God allows but I attribute much of it that he lets us all reap what we have sown to some capacity. Pharoh was the one who brought that curse on his people. God was just trying to free his people fron the evil egyptians who made tem slaves and since pharoh did not cooperate he was the one responsible. God has the right to choose how he wants to deal with people.

I don't think anyone likes death but everyone will surely face it. Why do you think we die?
 
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truethat said:
Funny! LOL


The interesting thing is that Christians tend to argue that "Oh Jesus came to fulfill the law and they stopped stoning people"
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Jesus himself said if the law had been perfect then he wouldn't have had to make a new covenant. I take that as he did not like it either but he was trying to get people to live Godly and when they rebelled they got it. Geeze if these were the OT days none of us would be alive let alone saved!
 
I dunno, the Romans seemed to do pretty well in the OT days. Egypt wasn't doing too shabby either.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Jesus himself said if the law had been perfect then he wouldn't have had to make a new covenant. I take that as he did not like it either but he was trying to get people to live Godly and when they rebelled they got it. Geeze if these were the OT days none of us would be alive let alone saved!
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Matthew 5:17-18
 
kurious_kathy said:
Okay I will get the audio on that book and let you know what I think after I am finished. And here are a few articles on "Evil and Suffering" for a good start to take a look and share your thoughts. http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=69

also look at these articles too on "The Existence Of God" http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=46

and the articles pertaining to an evaluation of "The God Who Wasn't There" http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?
option=com_content&task=view&id=161&Itemid=128
I would really like it if you would take your time while examaning the evidence and tell me if you can agree on some of it or all perhaps, or just some feedback would be nice.

And as for your above questions well I have been studying a while and in the time I have grown in my understanding I have been able to discern things I believe are important insights others may not have seen clearly yet. It took me a long time to evaluate and examine Catholics and these are some of my observations that I feel it is important to share with especially people who are Catholic.
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Sounds good. I will write up my impressions of these articles, and look forward to your comments on Ehrman's book. I am going to split this off into its own thread, to keep the commentary a bit more focused.

Of course, anyone else is more than welcome to comment, and hopefully they will also read both these articles and the Ehrman book and chime in as well.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Pharoh was the one who brought that curse on his people. God was just trying to free his people fron the evil egyptians who made tem slaves and since pharoh did not cooperate he was the one responsible. God has the right to choose how he wants to deal with people.
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God:"Let my people go or die"
Pharaoh: "Alright."
God:"You are such a pushover, I will harden your heart. Have some balls dude."
Pharaoh: "Hell yeah. Jew Slaves woot!"
God: "DIE little children!"
Pharoah: "Uh, I'm the evil bastard...why did you kill the children?"
God: "Because it is YOUR fault for making ME kill the children."
I don't think anyone likes death but everyone will surely face it. Why do you think we die?
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Because the breakdown of genetic and biological function.
 
H3LL said:
It must be her love of Catholics that persuaded you.



KK, prayers to God/Jesus is OK but not to the Catholic Mary. How about the Catholic Holy Ghost - Do you pray to that.


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No I only pray to Jesus since he is the only one who we are told in scripture to pray to. Jesus is the only mediator between man and God. If you pray to anyone else your prayers are going nowhere.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Pharoh was the one who brought that curse on his people.
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So it's ok to punish millions of innocent Egyptians for something the Pharaoh did? That's on par with shooting American babies for something that Bush did.

kurious_kathy said:
God was just trying to free his people fron the evil egyptians who made tem slaves and since pharoh did not cooperate he was the one responsible.
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The vast majority of those Egyptians punished didn't own any slaves and never had. About 80% were just peasants who couldn't even afford slaves, nor had enough land to justify using slaves.

Also, they had no say in the Pharaoh's decisions in the first place. Egypt wasn't a democracy.

kurious_kathy said:
God has the right to choose how he wants to deal with people.
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... so he just chooses to be an unjust arsehole?
 
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kurious_kathy said:
I don't think anyone likes death but everyone will surely face it. Why do you think we die?
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Because my cells wear out. People aren't capable of liking or disliking death unless they are irrational. It's similar to saying you don't like urinating.
 
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