So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

Is that a Mormon book or Jehovah's Witness book? I know alot about Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses to know they are certainly not based on truth. Mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian denominations as they claim, they are cults. Why would I even want to read that when I know it's full of false teachings other than to point out what they are?

No, Kathy, Harry Williams was an eminent English Christian writer who died a couple of years back. He was an Anglican priest and, for many years, a fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, where he gained a great reputation as a preacher and used to pack out the chapel every Sunday. His 'The Pearl of Great Price' is contained in his book of collected sermons, first published in the 1960s, called 'The True Wilderness'. This book is considered one of the classics of twentieth-century Christian devotional literature. The sermon from which it takes its title is an extended meditation on the meaning of Lent, by the way, which is how I happened to be rereading the book at this time.
 
Is that a Mormon book or Jehovah's Witness book? I know alot about Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses to know they are certainly not based on truth. Mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses are not Christian denominations as they claim, they are cults. Why would I even want to read that when I know it's full of false teachings other than to point out what they are?

 
Why do you think your opinion differs from his?




How do you know which are good and which are poor?




Does this mean you are accepting my challenge? A simple "yes" or "no" will do. If so, let me know which sites/articles you wish for me to read.

The Ehrman book is available as an audio book for download (from various sites as iPod or MP3), from Amazon, and most likely from any public library.

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Problem-Answer-Important-Question-Why/dp/0061173975

Okay I will get the audio on that book and let you know what I think after I am finished. And here are a few articles on "Evil and Suffering" for a good start to take a look and share your thoughts. http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=69

also look at these articles too on "The Existence Of God" http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=46

and the articles pertaining to an evaluation of "The God Who Wasn't There" http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?
option=com_content&task=view&id=161&Itemid=128
I would really like it if you would take your time while examaning the evidence and tell me if you can agree on some of it or all perhaps, or just some feedback would be nice.

And as for your above questions well I have been studying a while and in the time I have grown in my understanding I have been able to discern things I believe are important insights others may not have seen clearly yet. It took me a long time to evaluate and examine Catholics and these are some of my observations that I feel it is important to share with especially people who are Catholic.
 
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The terrorists that martyred themselves in 9/11 also died for their cause. Does that mean Allah is for real as well?

Earlier this year, a Tibetan Buddhist monk set himself on fire and killed himself to protest the Chinese occupation. I guess that means Buddhism is true as well?

For thousands of years, people have willingly died for causes that may or may not have been right.

Well did you ever think about these people killed themselves for their beliefs which could very well be wrong (in fact I know they are)? In the case of the apostles and martyrd Christians they were tortured and killed by others who were against their faith in Christ. To me the differences are obvious, black and white, no contest.

Jesus even said many would suffer and be killed for following him and all through history we have certainly had much evidence for that!
 
God gave us free will but will fry us if we use it. "Some catch, that catch 22"
Yeah I know the problem of free will can be a very frustrating thing. We all deal with that one and it can be a big struggle as most of us want to continue to live life on our own terms. If we want God though we must learn how to give that up which some I guess just can't do. Don't you see how this is a spiritual battle? I certainly do.
 
So Jesus hates it when people acknowledge his mother and wants to prevent her from having any glory, huh? That's some example he's setting.

Oh no you are not seeing it in the right light at all. Did Mary go to the cross and do what Jesus did to save man from his sins? Only Jesus did and he is the only one deserving of praise!

Mary is just the vessle God chose as the Sons earthly mother, she was just a sinner like everyone else so why would anyone treat her differently? Now that's what I call foolish.
 
Kathy,

If the Christian God exists - and, like you, I happen to believe He does, though I think my image of him is rather different from yours - then, we are told, he is great in compassion, mercy and love beyond anything we can possibly imagine.

How dare we, with our meagre intellects and stunted abilities to love, second-guess what His attitude might be towards anyone else on earth? Don't you think that He cares far more for the atheists on here that you ever will? Don't you think that they (we), in our own separate ways, might be searching for the truth using their (our) God-given intellect and humanity in ways which might get them closer to it than we are? Don't you think there are many paths to God and to ultimate truth?

I'm going to quote the whole of the passage from Harry Williams's 'The Pearl of Great Price', which I cited above:

'... at the very least this means that the kingdom [of heaven] is not something which can be immediately presented to you on a plate, so that all you have to do is to put it in your pocket and feel good. You will find many devout Christians who have forgotten what Jesus said and who will present the kingdom of heaven to you in exactly this way. It means, they will tell you, adhesion to a given form of doctrinal orthodoxy. Believe this, that and the other, and there, you've got the kingdom. But you haven't got it. All you've got is an excuse to stop looking for it. You may commend the views you have thus accepted with passionate earnestness and zeal, but these may only show that deep down you are afraid that you have been fobbed off with an artificial pearl. All fanaticism is a strategy to prevent doubt from becoming conscious. And meanwhile the apparent agnostic infidel in the rooms above may in his own manner still be seeking for the kingdom of heaven, while you aren't.'

I find this a very compelling passage. It seems to me to get the essence of Jesus's summation of the whole of the Law as loving God and loving one's neighbour as oneself. Nothing in there about 'converting' your neighbour or damning them or hectoring them with your own interpretation of what belief is.

Again, if God exists, he is greater and bigger than we can possibly imagine (as St Paul said, we now see through a glass darkly). All we can do is create our own images of Him and try to imagine what He might be like. These images can be very helpful; indeed, they are the only way we can understand Him. Yet because we, unavoidably, live in sin, they can also be very unhelpful and can actually act to separate us from His love. When our images of God start to distance us from His love, from our own desires and needs and, perhaps most of all, from other people, it might be time to look again at them and to wonder if we haven't created a false God, an idol after our own unhappiest personality traits.

Ahem. End of sermon. I don't want to preach on JREF (or anywhere else), but Kathy, your posts have been upsetting me and I wanted to share with you my own vision of Christianity. Would be happy to discuss via PM if you want.
 
Well did you ever think about these people killed themselves for their beliefs which could very well be wrong (in fact I know they are)?

How do you know? what evidence do you have? or is this knowledge based on faith (read. wishful thinking or self-dellusion)

In the case of the apostles and martyrd Christians they were tortured and killed by others who were against their faith in Christ. To me the differences are obvious, black and white, no contest.

martyrdom and persecution are not unique to christianity KK.
Auschwitz (racial persecution), Appolonius (martyrdom), e.g.


Jesus even said many would suffer and be killed for following him and all through history we have certainly had much evidence for that!

He must have been, like, psychic to know that having a different pov could be dangerous in certain political climates!
 
The problem is there is no evidence that jesus Christ ever existed. His so called "sacrifice" was nothing more than a plagery of several pagan dietys who gave their lives for humanity. Atheists don't hate what never existed. The concept of God giving birth to himself, then sacrificing himself to save humanity from his own wrath makes no sense whatever. I prefer to believe that death is annilation and that no afterlife exists for some fickle Diety to manipulate.

Say what you will but no one has ever disproven the validity of scripture. And then there is much more evidence but you have to be truly seeking God I guess before you can find him.

The proof is out there and lots of people have given you easy access to it but you must try to see what's right about it first, not the other way around. Did you even look At the over 40 references listed on alwaysbeready.com website? Here's another list incase you missed it the first time "Non Christian Resources for the Evidence of Jesus"http://www.garyhabermas.com/books/historicaljesus/historicaljesus.htm#ch9
 
Well did you ever think about these people killed themselves for their beliefs which could very well be wrong (in fact I know they are)? In the case of the apostles and martyrd Christians they were tortured and killed by others who were against their faith in Christ. To me the differences are obvious, black and white, no contest.
To the rest of humanity, your hypocrisy and double standard are obvious, black and white, no contest.
Jesus even said many would suffer and be killed for following him and all through history we have certainly had much evidence for that!
So did Prophet Muhammad and Joseph Smith, so what?
Yeah I know the problem of free will can be a very frustrating thing. We all deal with that one and it can be a big struggle as most of us want to continue to live life on our own terms. If we want God though we must learn how to give that up which some I guess just can't do. Don't you see how this is a spiritual battle? I certainly do.
That was the most absurd and retarded self contradicting garbage I've ever read. In summary of KK's logic, "God really cares about Free will and allows humans Free Will to reject god BUT you must first surrender Free Will to accept God or you will be damned."

If this was the case, your god is not only an ass but is completely and utterly evil.
Oh no you are not seeing it in the right light at all. Did Mary go to the cross and do what Jesus did to save man from his sins? Only Jesus did and he is the only one deserving of praise!
Wow, your god is arrogant and ever so jealous. Sad.
Mary is just the vessle God chose as the Sons earthly mother, she was just a sinner like everyone else so why would anyone treat her differently? Now that's what I call foolish.
Yup, Mary is nothing more than some little girl that YHWH raped. Nothing more.
 
Say what you will but no one has ever disproven the validity of scripture. And then there is much more evidence but you have to be truly seeking God I guess before you can find him.
No. There is NO validity to your holy book. Your delusions and denial does not change that simple fact.
The proof is out there and lots of people have given you easy access to it but you must try to see what's right about it first, not the other way around. Did you even look At the over 40 references listed on alwaysbeready.com website? Here's another list incase you missed it the first time "Non Christian Resources for the Evidence of Jesus"http://www.garyhabermas.com/books/historicaljesus/historicaljesus.htm#ch9
Yes, I did. You apparently did not and so your opinion is less than worthless.

Your rants are great. Nothing alienates more people from Christianity than people like you. Keep it up.
 
So, why even bother pretending there's evidence?

I want you to consider very carefully when you present what you would call evidence. Ask if that kind of evidence would prove to you the truthfulness of any other religion.

For example:
1.) Would the willingness to die for a Islam prove to you the truth of islam? If not, why should it prove the truth of christianity?

2.) Would the historical proof of mohammed prove the truth of Islam? Then why would a historical Jesus prove Christianity?

No one but Jesus lived a sinless perfect life. He was the only acceptable sacrifice to redeem this lost world. God requires holiness which only Jesus is. Jesus did not claim to be a prophet, he said he was God!

Mohammad even admited he could not live a perfect holy life and had doubts about himself and his faith.
 
Thanks Tanstaafl and Elizabeth I. After a good night's sleep and some random thoughts, I was approaching the same conclusion. Kurious Kathy does seem to have a problem with spelling!

However, I think most of those posting here need to realise that there is no way they can change - or even mildly influence - our Kath's "reality". When I'm in an "being difficult" mood, I occasionally bait the steady stream of JWs and (increasingly of late) LDSs who turn up on my doorstep. I think they must have targeted my street. The trouble is that the fun is going out of it.
 
Apart from the bits where pi equals 3, bats are birds, the hare chews its cud..........:rolleyes:
KK probably does believe that pi equals 3, bats are birds and hares chew cud and the Earth is only 6000 years old.
 
No, it doesn't make sense to me. I disagree with the concept of original sin, so I see no need to seek forgiveness in Jesus's death.

You say that "we turned evil." What exactly is your definition of evil?


. . . . . . . . .

I agree very much with Truethat's post.

. . . . . . . .
Edited to add: count me as one more person who disagrees with the idea that we face eternity. Dead is dead.
Well just because you don't believe in sin does not prove there is none. Why should I believe that?

Evil is everything unholy or pure which is obviously everywhere in this world as we know it. We fall short of Gods standard all the time in this world, he did not intend it to become this way but he knew it would when Adam and Eve disobeyed. I do get upset because after that everyone was doomed but Jesus made a way and that is good news.

I define evil as to what the Bible says is evil. Start with the 10 Commandments first, then in the New Testament defines what the deeds of the flesh are verses the deeds of the spirit... Gal. 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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Kathy, I'm going to let you in on a great secret of us Internet Illuminati, and you don't even have to learn a secret handshake ;)

See there's this site called Google. Just point your browser at http://google.com and type "Father Harry Williams" in that little box in the middle and hit Search. As if by magic, you get a list of links about that topic.

I know, I know, it blew my mind too ;)
 
I know how you feel Paul W.
The important thing in any relationship is to keep the "spice" alive!
Go knock on their doors and preach atheism!

i must confess that whenever i reach this point i have in the past purposely engaged in discussion with religious types to see how quickly i can get them to walk away from me.:D

my personal best was a christian doomsayer at 35 seconds.:o
 
Thanks Tanstaafl and Elizabeth I. After a good night's sleep and some random thoughts, I was approaching the same conclusion. Kurious Kathy does seem to have a problem with spelling

Plus I only seem to get time at night when everyone is asleep and tonight I am very tired so I will retire for now. I'll try to get back earlier Saturday to finish some responses.
 
I think it refers to Mary being a co-redeemer, along with Jesus.

Instead of Jesus being the only way to have your sins forgiven, Mary provides an alternative avenue.

Agggh! My fingers feel weird after typing such utter nonsense!
I believe that the Rev Moon is now also a co-redemptor. There must be a big workload
 

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