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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Hokulele said:
Why does it bother you so much when someone calls Christianity a cult?
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You can call it whatever you like, but as I said -- and you did not try to refute -- according to the definition I've seen, a mainline religion that is claimed by about 42 US presidents (including Obama) in a country with the official national motto of "In God We Trust" is not a cult.
 
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DOC said:
You can call it whatever you like, but as I said and you did not try to refute, according to the definition I've seen, a mainline religion that is claimed by about 42 US presidents (including Obama) in a country with the official national motto of "In God We Trust" is not a cult.
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And you didn't refute that jesus was a cult leader, so we can agree on that point.
very good.
 
joobz said:
And you didn't refute that jesus was a cult leader, so we can agree on that point.
very good.
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This is false, I've already said the mainline religion of at least 42 presidents (including Obama) in a nation with the national motto of "In God We Trust" is not a cult. Cults by its very definition are fringe non-mainline entities that go against the norm. Christianity, the largest religion in the world is the norm (in America and many other countries) and it was/is the norm with 42 presidents (including Obama).

If skeptics in here insist on calling Christianity a cult, go ahead, but our society says otherwise. If anything it is the atheists who are on the fringe, and that's why an atheist can't be elected president in the US.
 
DOC said:
This is false, I've already said the mainline religion of at least 42 presidents (including Obama) in a nation with the national motto of "In God We Trust" is not a cult. Cults by its very definition are fringe non-mainline entities that go against the norm. Christianity, the largest religion in the world is the norm (in America and many other countries) and it was/is the norm with 42 presidents (including Obama).

If skeptics in here insist on calling Christianity a cult, go ahead, but our society says otherwise. If anything it is the atheists who are on the fringe, and that's why an atheist can't be elected president in the US.
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and that isn't what i said. I said Jesus was a cult leader. That's not saying that christianity is currently a cult. So, since you haven't refuted what I said, I assume you agree that Jesus was a cult leader who condoned slavery.
 
DOC said:
You can call it whatever you like, but as I said -- and you did not try to refute -- according to the definition I've seen, a mainline religion that is claimed by about 42 US presidents (including Obama) in a country with the official national motto of "In God We Trust" is not a cult.
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Most of those presidents were not presidents of a country with the motto, "In God We Trust".

Regardless, how does that prove the NT writers told the truth?
 
zooterkin said:
Most of those presidents were not presidents of a country with the motto, "In God We Trust".

Regardless, how does that prove the NT writers told the truth?
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Let me summarize this thread:
DOC presented 10 reasons for the bible's truthiness. These are reasons so poorly constructed that evena 4 year old would be embarressed by them. And they were consised dismissed.

DOC will deny that this refutation happened.

We then discussed how, if Jesus was god, then it was clear that slavery wasn't a big deal to him, as he didn't speak out against it. Since we now consider slavery to be morally abhorent, we are left to conclude that western soociety is more moral than Jesus.

DOC denies that jesus condones it and explains that jesus didn't want to risk his life for speaking out against it. (the same jesus who supposedly sacrificed his life for his beliefs...)

We then discussed how Mormonism has more reliable witness evidence than the bible and asked DOC if that evidence convinces him. (With the idea that such evidence isn't useful when it is used to support the fantastic). DOC admits he doesn't believe it and went so far as to explain the mormons as secret keeping people, a halmark of cults.

We then ended up here, with demonstrating that Jesus also kept secrets and therefore was a cult leader.


DOC is unhappy with this anlysis and has attempted to use his president defense.
 
DOC said:
<snip>

If skeptics in here insist on calling Christianity a cult, go ahead, but our society says otherwise. If anything it is the atheists who are on the fringe, and that's why an atheist can't be elected president in the US.
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Have a look here and remind yourself about the third largest group. In what way is this group of 1.1 billion people "on the fringe"?

How can all these people possibly have missed the evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth?
 
joobz said:
Let me summarize this thread:
DOC presented 10 reasons for the bible's truthiness. These are reasons so poorly constructed that evena 4 year old would be embarressed by them. And they were consised dismissed.

DOC will deny that this refutation happened.

We then discussed how, if Jesus was god, then it was clear that slavery wasn't a big deal to him, as he didn't speak out against it. Since we now consider slavery to be morally abhorent, we are left to conclude that western soociety is more moral than Jesus.

DOC denies that jesus condones it and explains that jesus didn't want to risk his life for speaking out against it. (the same jesus who supposedly sacrificed his life for his beliefs...)

We then discussed how Mormonism has more reliable witness evidence than the bible and asked DOC if that evidence convinces him. (With the idea that such evidence isn't useful when it is used to support the fantastic). DOC admits he doesn't believe it and went so far as to explain the mormons as secret keeping people, a halmark of cults.

We then ended up here, with demonstrating that Jesus also kept secrets and therefore was a cult leader.


DOC is unhappy with this anlysis and has attempted to use his president defense.
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I disagree. I don't think 4 year-olds get embarassed over too much. I would like to see your evidence in support of the 4 year-old paradigm, and please don't try pulling that "All 4 year-olds are Scottish" fallacy. I'm too tired, and it's too early. :D
 
DOC said:
You can call it whatever you like, but as I said -- and you did not try to refute -- according to the definition I've seen, a mainline religion that is claimed by about 42 US presidents (including Obama) in a country with the official national motto of "In God We Trust" is not a cult.
Click to expand...


And what is now considered to be a mainstream religion had its origins in a Jewish cult.
 
DOC said:
This is false, I've already said the mainline religion of at least 42 presidents (including Obama) in a nation with the national motto of "In God We Trust" is not a cult. Cults by its very definition are fringe non-mainline entities that go against the norm. Christianity, the largest religion in the world is the norm (in America and many other countries) and it was/is the norm with 42 presidents (including Obama).
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Religions change, its a fact of life. Especially when the cult leader dies.
 
I get the feeling that joobz is ignoring my request for evidence. :(

AWPrime said:
Religions change, its a fact of life. Especially when the cult leader dies.
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Or much later, even though doctrine has been established, and reasserted over time. Consider the fact that the RCC now allows girls to serve on the altar along with boys. Eucharistic ministers can also be women. In the LDS faith, there was the about face on not allowing African Americans to hold the priesthood. Certain Protestant faiths will now accept homosexual ministers, and even sanction homosexual marriages.
 
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RobRoy said:
I disagree. I don't think 4 year-olds get embarassed over too much. I would like to see your evidence in support of the 4 year-old paradigm, and please don't try pulling that "All 4 year-olds are Scottish" fallacy. I'm too tired, and it's too early. :D
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Well, you caught me there. I have no first hand experience with an embarassed 4 year old.
 
joobz said:
We then discussed how Mormonism has more reliable witness evidence than the bible and asked DOC if that evidence convinces him. (With the idea that such evidence isn't useful when it is used to support the fantastic). DOC admits he doesn't believe it and went so far as to explain the mormons as secret keeping people, a halmark of cults.
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You talked about the 3 and the 8 witnesses of Mormonism. Well the 3 later got kicked out of the church by Joseph Smith himself, and the 8 were either relatives or close associates.

And what exactly did these witnesses witness. Joseph Smith could of had the plates (if they in fact did exist) made by any blacksmith. Smith later said he gave the plates back to an angel.

And the Egyptian hieroglyphics in a later work were deemed false by a college academic. Even the word Mormon is supposedly partially made of an Egyptian word and this supposedly Egyptian word was shown to be false.

Also just for the record Joseph Smith was deemed to be a Psychopath by Dutch investigator M. H. A. Valk who spent years studying the church. He said Smith used religion as a way of satisfying his unbridled passions of acquiring power, wealth and position.

Almost all of the above info is from the 20th Century Catholic Enclcopedia in its section on the Mormons.
 
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DOC said:
You talked about the 3 and the 8 witnesses of Mormonism. Well the 3 later got kicked out of the church by Joseph Smith himself, and the 8 were either relatives or close associates.
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And despite that, none withdrew their statements. That only further supports their claims. Thanks for providing further evidence for the truth of mormonism.
 
You talked about the 3 and the 8 witnesses of Mormonism. Well the 3 later got kicked out of the church by Joseph Smith himself, and the 8 were either relatives or close associates.
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And since persecution = your message holding water...
 
joobz said:
And despite that, none withdrew their statements. That only further supports their claims. Thanks for providing further evidence for the truth of mormonism.
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What exactly did they witness in their vision?
 
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