So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

kurious_kathy said:
Okay well do you believe that Jesus lived?
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I believe in a or even several Jesus existed, just not the one written in your book of fairytales.

kurious_kathy said:
There is all kinds of evidence in history but Satan has worked very hard at deceiving people to it.
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The great cop-out excuse. Color me unimpressed.
Have you read the historical documents by Josephus?
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Yes. Have you?
That's one but there are many more.
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No, one was a forgery and another mention of Jesus was an interpolation. Epic failure on your part.
I would like to share these articles with you on Charlies website and have you take an honest peek and listen to the audio too then get back to me on your opinion on a few things. [URL]http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=161&Itemid=128[/URL]
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No. Not interested. Bring your arguments and evidence here, I'm not interested in wasting my time on some nonsense website.
I would also like to have you go over this for non Christian evidence of the historical Jesus [URL]http://www.garyhabermas.com/books/historicaljesus/historicaljesus.htm#ch9[/URL]
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A list of people who mentions Christians and their beliefs in jesus. Wow. What great evidence :rolleyes:
 
minorwork said:
Would you damn your Soul to Hell for God?
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It's hard to try to put ourselves in Gods place because trying to grasp the meaning of what holiness looks like or is well it just isn't that easy. But I guess if I was a Holy God I would know I had to judge sin unless someone accepts my way out which is through Christ. Jesus paid the penalty for us so we do not have to go before the great white throne of judgement. But if you reject that gift then you deny God and he has the right to judge. He's God we are not. If we could only accept God on his terms, that seems to be the biggest quest. Why worry about hell if you can avoid it? The choice is ours because God gave us free will to choose him or not. I do chose to accept him.
 
proudnonbbeliever said:
is kurious kathy a troll or just selective hearing impaired?
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Troll is too harsh.

But to KK, I think you believe that you are getting some (heavenly?) credit in flogging a dead horse here. This is not true. You would get a better return on investment walking the streets and knocking on doors.
 
lionking said:
Troll is too harsh.

But to KK, I think you believe that you are getting some (heavenly?) credit in flogging a dead horse here. This is not true. You would get a better return on investment walking the streets and knocking on doors.
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Heck, there would be a better ROI teaching people to read, manning a soup kitchen, knitting hats for orphans, running a charity marathon for medical research, etc...
 
kurious_kathy said:
It's hard to try to put ourselves in Gods place because trying to grasp the meaning of what holiness looks like or is well it just isn't that easy. But I guess if I was a Holy God I would know I had to judge sin unless someone accepts my way out which is through Christ. Jesus paid the penalty for us so we do not have to go before the great white throne of judgement. But if you reject that gift then you deny God and he has the right to judge. He's God we are not. If we could only accept God on his terms, that seems to be the biggest quest. Why worry about hell if you can avoid it? The choice is ours because God gave us free will to choose him or not. I do chose to accept him.
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Translation: "No."
 
paximperium said:
I believe in a or even several Jesus existed, just not the one written in your book of fairytales.


The great cop-out excuse. Color me unimpressed.

Yes. Have you?

No, one was a forgery and another mention of Jesus was an interpolation. Epic failure on your part.

No. Not interested. Bring your arguments and evidence here, I'm not interested in wasting my time on some nonsense website.
A list of people who mentions Christians and their beliefs in jesus. Wow. What great evidence :rolleyes:
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I thought you were more open than that. And Charlie's put it all together for any skeptic to get valuable info on their questions because he too was once an atheist. Why do atheists have so many questions? I cannot possibly answer all your questions and I have told others while I value critical thinking skills I have never really been too skeptical so I just think you guys if you were open could at least value what Charlie has to say since he was once where many of you are and I think you would relate to him. If you want the truth then you owe it to yourself to be open and to try to hear what others have to say and Charlie Campbell is a great resource so I will recommend him especially when alot of the answers you want are available through his website. I may not have alot of documented research myself done but I can refer you to the ones who have.
 
Thanks for the clarification. I fail to see the logic of fundies posting in this manner when it is counterproductive towards establishing a dialogue with those of a skeptical nature.

To KK,

If you desire to convert skeptics you will need to know what would work, yes?

I suggest you investigate the skeptic methodology, to better understand us and improve your ability to communicate
 
kurious_kathy said:
I thought you were more open than that. And Charlie's put it all together for any skeptic to get valuable info on their questions because he too was once an atheist.
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So why don't you pick up the best and bring it here?
I've looked through enough of these websites. They are boring, exceedingly stupid and so often wrong. From your track record of education and honesty, I have little inclination to trust in your recommendation.
Why do atheists have so many questions?
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Because we find it interesting as to why people would believe in such silly things.
I cannot possibly answer all your questions and I have told others while I value critical thinking skills I have never really been too skeptical so I just think you guys if you were open could at least value what Charlie has to say since he was once where many of you are and I think you would relate to him.
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If you don't have the answers or even the ability to assess if these answers are even intelligent, why are you recommending them?
 
Hokulele said:
Why? I mean, if you are all-powerful and all, why come up with sin in the first place? :confused:
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If you were God you would be able to explain and define everything. Sin is what it is, we fall short of what we were meant to be so we could have fellowship with our Holy God. He is holy and cannot even look at sin so it is our fault, not his. He wanted the best for each of us but we turned evil, not the other way around. Does this make sense to you?

Also I would just like to add when we accept Christ God see's Jesus in us so then we are restored through Christs holiness he shares or gives to us. Not that we are who we will be but we are becoming a new creation through Christ.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I may not have alot of documented research myself done but I can refer you to the ones who have.
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The first step in critical thinking is learning how to evaluate what research is valuable and what isn't. What have you done to confirm that everything Charlie says is true? I notice that he relies almost solely on his own assertions and English translations of the Bible rather than original research.

Have you read anything by prominent biblical scholars? Do you simply swallow and regurgitate any opinion you happen to agree with?

Here is a challenge to you (I offered something similar to Jesus Freak a few years ago). I will read and offer up an analysis of any and/or all the articles on Charlie's website if you read and offer up an analysis of a book of my choice. I have in mind Bart Ehrman's God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question — Why We Suffer. He comes from a strong evangelistic background, and he isn't an atheist, so you shouldn't have to worry on that account.

Deal? Or aren't you open-minded enough to follow your own advice?
 
proudnonbbeliever said:
Thanks for the clarification. I fail to see the logic of fundies posting in this manner when it is counterproductive towards establishing a dialogue with those of a skeptical nature.

To KK,

If you desire to convert skeptics you will need to know what would work, yes?

I suggest you investigate the skeptic methodology, to better understand us and improve your ability to communicate
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I've noticed a few who seem to post in skeptic/atheist forums as a "test of faith."

Of course they are doing nothing of the sort. A Test of Faith would actually entail understanding an opposition's opinion. KK and a few others just deny and preach.

I find it sad how they are dishonest even to themselves.
 
"All fanaticism is a strategy to prevent doubt from becoming conscious".

Father Harry Williams, 'The Pearl of Great Price'. A wonderful Christian writer. You should try reading him sometime, Kathy.
 
Hokulele said:
The first step in critical thinking is learning how to evaluate what research is valuable and what isn't. What have you done to confirm that everything Charlie says is true? I notice that he relies almost solely on his own assertions and English translations of the Bible rather than original research.

Have you read anything by prominent biblical scholars? Do you simply swallow and regurgitate any opinion you happen to agree with?

Here is a challenge to you (I offered something similar to Jesus Freak a few years ago). I will read and offer up an analysis of any and/or all the articles on Charlie's website if you read and offer up an analysis of a book of my choice. I have in mind Bart Ehrman's God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question — Why We Suffer. He comes from a strong evangelistic background, and he isn't an atheist, so you shouldn't have to worry on that account.

Deal? Or aren't you open-minded enough to follow your own advice?
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First of all I did not state I thought everything Charlie states is true. He thinks all Catholics are saved, I do not agree for I see how they worship a different eucharist Christ and have made an idol of Mary so I believe most are not. If they do get saved in a Catholic church I believe they would have to go to a different church to get their teaching right since Catholocism has strayed from true doctrine. I think Jesus is very pissed off when a Catholic prays to Mary!

But on another note a lot of the reference Charlie has available via his website are very valuable teachings and documents. He has some very good insights and info but since he is human he can error ocassionally too as we all can. Jesus is the only one that is perfect!

As for suffering I still say we reap what we sow but I am open to listen to others share on their opinion of it. I prefer audio books since I am a slow reader.
 
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kurious_kathy said:
First of all I did not state I thought everything Charlie states is true. He thinks all Catholics are saved, I do not agree for I see how they worship a different eucharist Christ and have made an idol of Mary so I believe most are not. If they do get saved in a Catholic church I believe they would have to go to a different church to get their teaching right since Catholocism has strayed from true doctrine. I think Jesus is very pissed off when a Catholic prays to Mary!

But on another note a lot of the reference Charlie has available via his website are very valuable teachings and documents. He has some very good insights and info but since he is human he can error ocassionally too as we all can. Jesus is the only one that is perfect!

As for suffering I still say we reap what we sow but I am open to listen to others share on their opinion of it. I prefer audio books since I am a slow reader.
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Summary: "No"
 
kurious_kathy said:
First of all I did not state I thought everything Charlie states is true. He thinks all Catholics are saved, I do not agree for I see how they worship a different eucharist Christ and have made an idol of Mary so I believe most are not. If they do get saved in a Catholic church I believe they would have to go to a different church to get their teaching right since Catholocism has strayed from true doctrine. I think Jesus is very pissed off when a Catholic prays to Mary!
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Why do you think your opinion differs from his?

But on another note a lot of the reference Charlie has available via his website are very valuable teachings and documents. He has some very good insights and info but since he is human he can error ocassionally too as we all can. Jesus is the only one that is perfect!
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How do you know which are good and which are poor?

As for suffering I still say we reap what we sow but I am open to listen to others share on their opinion of it. I prefer audio books since I am a slow reader.
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Does this mean you are accepting my challenge? A simple "yes" or "no" will do. If so, let me know which sites/articles you wish for me to read.

The Ehrman book is available as an audio book for download (from various sites as iPod or MP3), from Amazon, and most likely from any public library.

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Problem-Answer-Important-Question-Why/dp/0061173975
 
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