Merged Abolute proof UAL 175 never struck WTC tower 2

[Toke]

Can't you be less visible?

No, that would be a major disservice to the more discerning members of the forum

 

[Klimax]

No, that would be a major disservice to the more discerning members of the forum

Hell.That was supposed to be comment,not "feature-request"!!!

 

[Trojan]

JSSTYGER is now on youtube with a new observation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wih9U9gRBaw

Jenga blocks aren't even connected and the tower still falls off to the side almost as one. Now think what happens when a bldg with real bolts and welds leans to one side. What has happened to every single building that has ever collapsed?

He honesty thinks the towers should have toppled over to the side

 

[bje]

I doubt JSSTYGER has either the integrity or courage to come back and admit he's wrong.

 

[CptColumbo]

I think I'll have some Absolut proof while I wait for his "absolute proof."

 

[twinstead]

I doubt JSSTYGER has either the integrity or courage to come back and admit he's wrong.

The problem with people like that is to them, they're NOT wrong. Nothing we or anybody else could ever do or say can change that.

 

[kookbreaker]

The problem with people like that is to them, they're NOT wrong. Nothing we or anybody else could ever do or say can change that.

Just remember that even when they are wrong, WE are BIASED. So therefore that means they cannot possibly be wrong.

 

[JohnG]

He honesty thinks the towers should have toppled over to the side

Well, that's what happened in my Lego experiment.

I think I'll have some Absolut proof while I wait for his "absolute proof."

Don't you mean "Abolute proof"?

 

[BCR]

I have a lot of respect for _BoneZ_, the guy who started the ATS thread regarding this topic. Once someone posted the evidence that the UAL175 FE anomaly was simply the last position of the coast track, he conceded the evidence and "closed the thread". But the "twoofers" then went on the attack like a pack of vicious dogs on him! No evidence, just personal darts.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread445401/pg2

It got so bad the moderators had to close off the thread.

 

[jaydeehess]

Jenga blocks aren't even connected and the tower still falls off to the side almost as one. Now think what happens when a bldg with real bolts and welds leans to one side. What has happened to every single building that has ever collapsed?

Hmmm, given that there will be a resistance to the toppling because the undamaged side is connected all the way down through the structure, it would tend to concentrate the gravity load on the remaining vertical structural members giving them more time to fail thus reducing the propensity to topple.

If the structure fails all accross one floor, or a small number of adjacent floors, and the upper structure has not have moved sufficiently from vertical to have its center of mass beyond the perimeter of the structure then it will also reduce a propensity to topple.


Jenga blocks........ that's just so cute!

What Jenga actually teaches in this regard is that the friction between pieces is sufficient to keep them together rather than having layers slide by each other. Unless JSST wishes to show that the individual levels of the towers separated and slid away from each other this analogy goes no where.

 

[Mr.Herbert]

I have a lot of respect for _BoneZ_, the guy who started the ATS thread regarding this topic. .........

Bonez is a reject from PFFFFT? Wow... I also noticed Captain Bobby Bee is using a sock at ATS. (Rock Hound) Wonder why he stopped using his other name?

 

[bje]

Bonez is a reject from PFFFFT? Wow... I also noticed Captain Bobby Bee is using a sock at ATS. (Rock Hound) Wonder why he stopped using his other name?

Balsamo was reported for using multiple IDs on ATS but nothing happened.

 

[Thunder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UuH6D4pob8

1) Tower 2 is down
2) Very few planes on the radar screen (for those who are still skeptical)
3) Plane is headed back to Boston (further proof the FAA had already given the command to ground all aircraft)
4) This is a national news media broadcast

Any questions?

BTW...I must ask:

what is "abolute"?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Hey folks. I don't really have anything substantive to add...was just curious about something and noticed our resident ATC guru was in the hizzouse (Cheap Shot).

Is there any civilian aviation protocol that allows a pilot to fly a left or right dog leg pattern of a certain duration to inform ATC personnel of a loss of comms? In lieu of squawking 7600, I mean. I remember learning that CAP aircraft can do this - just wondering if civ aviation does it as well.

Thanks!

 

[Reheat]

Cheap Shot won't be around this late, so I'll give you the link to the applicable section in the FAA's Aeronautical Information Manual that should answer your question for IFR procedures.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap6/aim0604.html

The only thing I don't see covered in that section is that under VFR procedures when approaching an controlled airport with intent to land, the aircraft should rock it's wings on the downwind/crosswind legs and/or initial approach. This signifies to the tower that the aircraft is NORDO. That should be somewhere in the document, but I didn't see a logical place for it.....

There is no difference between military and civilian aircraft for these specific procedures. In fact, there are very few differences between the rules for military versus civilian, period. These differences are related to speed limits. Most fighter/bomber aircraft require higher speeds than those specified below 10,000' MSL and in airport traffic areas, etc. They fly their Flight Manual recommended speeds and are exempt from these FAA speed restrictions. That's the only difference in the rules that I can think of at the moment.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Yeah, I can't really find anything concrete on that procedure anywhere. It was part of my Enlisted Surface Warfare qualification back in the day. The guy that taught me that was an OS - more specifically an air intercept controller. I'm not certain if that's just something CAP's do...but one thing I kept noticing in the FAA guidelines for two-way comm failure is that they put a lot of what to do in the pilot's hands.

ETA: Now that I think about it, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for a civilian aircraft to fly a triangular dog-leg over CONUS airspace. I'm not an ATC, but I think it would make my job easier as one if the plane experiencing comms trouble stayed on the last good vector he was given. With CAP aircraft it's a little different. Cutting triangles over a hot zone somewhere out in the Atlantic or Pacific is a lot different than doing it smack dab in the middle of a COMAIR lane over Nebraska farmland.

Learning about this stuff almost makes me want to change careers and be an ATC type-guy. I know it's really high-stress but I grew up professionally in the electronic warfare hot seat on an Arleigh Burke class destroyer. Even sat through one real-world missile fired in anger a little too close to us. I know what it's like when the kitchen gets hot.

Sorry for the derail folks. Where'd the OP go anyway? I noticed it only took him two pages to start scootin' them goalposts...

 

[Reheat]

...but one thing I kept noticing in the FAA guidelines for two-way comm failure is that they put a lot of what to do in the pilot's hands.

I don't know of anyone else who could fix the problem!

ETA: Now that I think about it, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for a civilian aircraft to fly a triangular dog-leg over CONUS airspace.

CAP; is that Civil Air Patrol or Combat Air Patrol?

I faintly recall something from the Orville/Wilbur days about a right and/or left hand triangular pattern, maybe related to Air Defense in some way, but I don't remember details/specifics. I can assure that is not a current procedure FOR ANYONE of which I am aware....

I don't think anyone will object to the derail. This thread had a fork in it after the first two or three posts. As long as it's here we may as well make it interesting for someone.....

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Combat Air Patrols. Idea being, that track that you had solid Mode 2 IFF on a minute ago is now not responding via any radio circuits, you've lost his modes/codes, and the radar skin on the track shows it constant altitude in a triangular holding pattern.
Military Air Search radars work a little bit different than civilian types. You can still have good situational awareness even if your IFF ring goes down (That's secondary "radar" to you civair folk) My boat had the SPY-1D which is pound for pound about the best shipboard air search radar in the world (unless you count the variant mounted on the Japanese Kongo class DDGs...Same radar just tweaked to absolute perfection.) SPY's even used as missile guidance, it's so accurate. Anyway, back to the triangular pattern....

There's even supposed to be some significance as to whether it's a left or right triangular flight pattern. Gosh, I wish I could remember what that was. Darth Rotor used to dabble in this world, as did a few other former OS types on this board that I know of. Maybe they'll pop their heads in for a sec.

 

[Reheat]

There's even supposed to be some significance as to whether it's a left or right triangular flight pattern. Gosh, I wish I could remember what that was. Darth Rotor used to dabble in this world, as did a few other former OS types on this board that I know of. Maybe they'll pop their heads in for a sec.

Well, I don't think you're imagining something, yet!

I recall something like this from years ago, but I don't recall the details now. Yes, the right or left hand turns did signify something, but I don't recall what. If someone can fill in the blank space in my brain (probably impossible), maybe something will start to come back into memory.

Whatever it was ceased to exist quite a long time ago. The current procedures that you read have been in effect for a L O N G time.

 

[beachnut]

Combat Air Patrols. Idea being, that track that you had solid Mode 2 IFF on a minute ago is now not responding via any radio circuits, you've lost his modes/codes, and the radar skin on the track shows it constant altitude in a triangular holding pattern.
Military Air Search radars work a little bit different than civilian types. You can still have good situational awareness even if your IFF ring goes down (That's secondary "radar" to you civair folk) My boat had the SPY-1D which is pound for pound about the best shipboard air search radar in the world (unless you count the variant mounted on the Japanese Kongo class DDGs...Same radar just tweaked to absolute perfection.) SPY's even used as missile guidance, it's so accurate. Anyway, back to the triangular pattern....

There's even supposed to be some significance as to whether it's a left or right triangular flight pattern. Gosh, I wish I could remember what that was. Darth Rotor used to dabble in this world, as did a few other former OS types on this board that I know of. Maybe they'll pop their heads in for a sec.

My plan was to avoid all naval ships on both sides.

I recall some sort of patterns but a long time ago... but we never had enough gas in UPT to waste telling people we lost radios flying around, we would have crashed due to fuel starvation; so you come down rocking your wings, look for a green light, and land.

In civilian world, you check out the pattern, and enter at a 45 or standard, look for lights and land.

Big airliners; get on your cell phone and talk to center; it works. (use the seat back) fly your last clearance and land.

In super pilot world, you pull out your spare radio from Sportys, and you talk.

Then i look up the real stuff in AIM