The Zeitgeist Movement... why not?

[Mr_Mix]

Let's put the TVP advocates in a room with the Anarcho Capitalist,lock the doors, and see what happens ....

Whatchya gonna do, Anarcho Capitalist, when TZM runs wild on you!

Oh I see someone posted a link to the new video. If anyone else could take a look and post some feedback it would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Mr_Mix]

I think that Zeitgeist is a real eye opener. I have watched it many times and although I dont think everything is 100% I would say most of it is logical and truthfull. I mean if you actually think that they was not something strange with 911 then you haven't got a clue. There is too much to talk about but at the end of the day there is soo much evidence that points to somesort of inside job that I cant dispute it, the goverments have always been ***** lets face it, they just want to control the world via fear and manipulation. Those buildings would not have colapsed so easily by 1 plane hit each one I dont care what anyone says, people will choose to believe what they want but I know that that was a false flag operations just like all the others before it.

*sigh* 9/11 is really irrelevant to the movement. There is a lot of this talk in the ZM forum too. Oh well. Take the good with the bad. There was a part of the first movie that talked about 9/11 so the conspiracy nuts come in droves.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

*sigh* 9/11 is really irrelevant to the movement. There is a lot of this talk in the ZM forum too. Oh well. Take the good with the bad. There was a part of the first movie that talked about 9/11 so the conspiracy nuts come in droves.

Well, when you have to make a movie 4 times because people keep catching on to your BS, it's probably not a good way to start. As I recall, the other 2/3 of that movie were just as crappy as the 9/11 segment.

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

"The Movement".......pfffft!! That kills me every time! ROFL, I'm starting a movement after I polish off this bowl of chilli. It a movement of solitude that purges the body of capitalist urges (and above mentioned chilli). This acts as a purification of the soul (and the colon) and allows us to clear our minds (and plug our nostrils).

How many people are required for a "movement" anyway? I don't think Peter Joseph and the white-guy w/ dreads, who works at the local headshop, count as a "movement" technically.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Change for change's sake is usually a bad thing. Despite its flaws, society works pretty well -- and messing around with a complex machine that is nevertheless running, if you don't understand the machine in the first place, will usually result in a machine that no longer works.

The Zeitgeist Movement seems to absolutely typify "not understanding the machine in the first place" and "change for change's sake."

"The machine works pretty well".

Let's see. Enough food is produced to feed every individual alive. Half of it goes to the trash, half of the people is dying of hunger.

The "American dream" is a fairy tale, no matter how hard you want to believe that "anyone can succeed with had work in this land of opportunities" it is just a pile of crap. Most people will never "succeed" (if this means going in to permanent debt to have a house you can't pay to impress neighborhoods you don't like).

There is technology available to never polute the air again, going hydrogen instead of petrol. It is a totally renovable source of energy, which returns H2O to the environment instead of poison. There are of course other technologies available, but costs are an issue for this society, not well being.

Anyway, everyone of you is, of course, free to think whatever you like. If you are doing ok and live happy in your cage good for you. The Human Zoo, by Desmond Morris, comes to my mind.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Didn't you guys hear? Most people in America (the United States, a la the "American Dream" allusion) live in run down shacks, and lack food and clothing. Heck, I don't even own a computer; I am communicating directly to the forum through shear force of will. Now that that is out of my system.

We are dealing with the law of averages. Not everyone is going to be a billionairev, but not everyone will be homeless. It doesn't mean I am going to work for the simple feeling of helping out everyone else, right before my mid day joining of hands with all the people's of the world to sing "Good Morning Star Shine". (Sort of strange that it would be at mid day as opposed to morning, but who is to question the workings of the collective?)

This false dichotomy of either being a Geisty or being the devil incarnate isn't constructive to an honest debate of the inherent flaws within the Venus Project in particular and all other forms of Marxism in general. Especially when the debate is being derived from individuals (Jacques Fresco & Peter Joseph) who lack both an understanding of rudimentary economic principles and the basic law of technological innovation (e.g. all technology is eventual obsolescence).

 

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

"The machine works pretty well".

Let's see. Enough food is produced to feed every individual alive. Half of it goes to the trash, half of the people is dying of hunger.

The "American dream" is a fairy tale, no matter how hard you want to believe that "anyone can succeed with had work in this land of opportunities" it is just a pile of crap. Most people will never "succeed" (if this means going in to permanent debt to have a house you can't pay to impress neighborhoods you don't like).

There is technology available to never polute the air again, going hydrogen instead of petrol. It is a totally renovable source of energy, which returns H2O to the environment instead of poison. There are of course other technologies available, but costs are an issue for this society, not well being.

Anyway, everyone of you is, of course, free to think whatever you like. If you are doing ok and live happy in your cage good for you. The Human Zoo, by Desmond Morris, comes to my mind.

Are you for real?

 

[Travis]

"The machine works pretty well".

Let's see. Enough food is produced to feed every individual alive. Half of it goes to the trash, half of the people is dying of hunger.

How many people are starving to death in stable western countries with *gasp* monetary economies and *double gasp* actual governments?

I'm curious how the The Venus Project is going to help ethnic Africans in Darfur or refugees in the Congo. Do you think the local warlords, hellbent on genocide and religious extermination, will go along with such a utopian idea? My bet is that they will say to get lost if they don't just shoot you right there. In the end those people are left to fend for themselves which is kinda what is happening right now. So no improvement there.

The "American dream" is a fairy tale, no matter how hard you want to believe that "anyone can succeed with had work in this land of opportunities" it is just a pile of crap.

If your "American dream" is to have a stable job with a comfortable house where you can raise your kids then I think that most people, in fact, have achieved it. If your "American dream" is to be insanely rich, famous and having sex parties with Hollywood Celebutants then, yeah, most people won't achieve it. Will The Venus Project succeed there where capitalism failed? Will there be Celebutant sex parties available on demand in Venus Projectville?

Most people will never "succeed" (if this means going in to permanent debt to have a house you can't pay to impress neighborhoods you don't like).

Most people get loans to live in neighborhoods they like so I guess you are correct that most people don't "succeed" in doing that.

There is technology available to never polute the air again, going hydrogen instead of petrol. It is a totally renovable source of energy, which returns H2O to the environment instead of poison. There are of course other technologies available, but costs are an issue for this society, not well being.

Costs will be an issue in a Venus Project society as well, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

I'm curious how the The Venus Project is going to help ethnic Africans in Darfur or refugees in the Congo. Do you think the local warlords, hellbent on genocide and religious extermination, will go along with such a utopian idea? My bet is that they will say to get lost if they don't just shoot you right there. In the end those people are left to fend for themselves which is kinda what is happening right now. So no improvement there.

Especially given the fact that many countries actively send aid to such nations and the food ends up on the black market. Yeah, Western nations produce a lot of food; and despite what people believe we give a lot of it away. Nevertheless we can't use the military to make sure it gets where it is supposed to go, and that isn't the fault of western society.

 

[Travis]

Especially given the fact that many countries actively send aid to such nations and the food ends up on the black market. Yeah, Western nations produce a lot of food; and despite what people believe we give a lot of it away. Nevertheless we can't use the military to make sure it gets where it is supposed to go, and that isn't the fault of western society.

The Venus Project: a frat party for already well off sociologists and pretentious white folk who take their cushy lifestyle for granted...with robots!

 

[Aepervius]

45 million American live without health coverage whatsoever, as per another thread. Sure you might not care, until it happens to you. And as far as I remember there are still people malnourished in the US too ("In 2006, 35.5 million people, including 12.6 million children, in the United States did not have access to enough food for an active healthy life." the source might eb a bit biased (bread.org) but I have no time to search for a better more official one). So yes, the system is not perfect. But it is certainly better than many other alternative. And certainly better than change-for-the-sake-of-change by some utopist ZM.

 

[drkitten]

"The machine works pretty well".

Let's see. Enough food is produced to feed every individual alive. Half of it goes to the trash, half of the people is dying of hunger.

Yup. That's a pretty good definition of "working pretty well," especially if you use the real numbers. (BreadForTheWorld suggests that about one billion people are "hungry"; which is considerably less than half -- it's less than one in six, in fact.)

Most of the "hungry" people worldwide are, in fact, made so by locally-broken political systems; the UN is delivering tons of food that are rotting on the docks because the local government won't allow it to be delivered.

There is technology available to never polute the air again, going hydrogen instead of petrol. It is a totally renovable source of energy, which returns H2O to the environment instead of poison.

Really? What technology do you suggest is capable of delivering 12000 Mtoe of energy? (World consumption, 2006) How were you planning to deploy that infrastructure without polluting the air?

The Human Zoo, by Desmond Morris, comes to my mind.

That's all right. Fantasia, by Walt Disney, comes to mine.

 

[D'rok]

The Venus Project: a frat party for already well off sociologists and pretentious white folk who take their cushy lifestyle for granted...with robots!

But do the robots have lasers? I can only get on board if they have lasers. I like lasers. And robots. With lasers.

 

[Prometheus]

<snip>
Will there be Celebutant sex parties available on demand in Venus Projectville?
<snip>

When it comes to having sex with the likes of Britney or Paris, I think I'd rather let the magic robots do it.

 

[dudalb]

But do the robots have lasers? I can only get on board if they have lasers. I like lasers. And robots. With lasers.

Until Skynet tells them to turn on you, and Magnus Robot Fighter is not around...

 

[Travis]

But do the robots have lasers? I can only get on board if they have lasers. I like lasers. And robots. With lasers.

Supposedly the robots will provide for us whatever we want.....so sure. Want them to ice skate too?

When it comes to having sex with the likes of Britney or Paris, I think I'd rather let the magic robots do it.

When it comes to those two I'm there with you on leaving it to the robots but there are others that I would......lets just say not turn down.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Don't you guys understand, you are part of the machine man...puff....like you are totally all about consumerism man....puff....imagine a society in which people like traded stuff man...puff...like you would have someone to make food...puff...and a robot to police things...puff...and like a person to repair the robot, and...whoo...I am soo gone mannn!

 

[cheat3]

Don't you guys understand, you are part of the machine man...puff....like you are totally all about consumerism man....puff....imagine a society in which people like traded stuff man...puff...like you would have someone to make food...puff...and a robot to police things...puff...and like a person to repair the robot, and...whoo...I am soo gone mannn!

Imagine...puff...like machines that can fliy...puff...and freaking windows where you can see people on the other side of the world...puff...and everyone saving up and giving money to people who cant work...puff...woo, Im shorrrttttt sighteddddd mannnnnnnn

 

[D'rok]

Supposedly the robots will provide for us whatever we want.....so sure. Want them to ice skate too?

Ice skating robots with lasers? Yes please!

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Travis]

Ice skating robots with lasers? Yes please!

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Somebody should so make that their sig.