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Are Most Conservatives Really Conservatives

INRM

Philosopher
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I personally think that most Conservatives are not truly conservatives except in the fact that they don't want any of their taxpayer dollars going to any form of welfare or anything of that sort. Otherwise though, they don't fit the bill. They are more than willing to have a gigantically powerful government, and are definitely willing to spend enormous amounts of money to feed it.

Conservatives by definition are supposed to generally be people who want small government that doesn't end up intruding into people's private lives, and able to perform basic services with the rest done via the private sector. I have thought of this for awhile, and sometime back on another forum which was actually dominated by these particular people, I stated this more or less to a similar extent and said that I thought that most Conservatives' attitudes would more properly be called "Right-Wing Authoritarian".


What are your opinions?


INRM
 
That fits me to a tee. I keep waiting for the damn Republicans to get away from the fundies, and to embrace science, but they won't.

I feel like I am forced to choose between a party that believes in Santa Claus and a party that wants all my money!
 
kavik said:
I feel like I am forced to choose between a party that believes in Santa Claus and a party that wants all my money!
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Both parties want your money. The difference is one party doesn't lie about it. One party isn't hypocritical about it. One party didn't just leave office after 8 years of spending, spending and more spending and then 2 weeks later start pretending they are the party of less government and less spending.

Oh and for the most part they both "believe in Santa Claus", it's just one of them is less apt to force him down your throat.
 
DavidJames said:
Both parties want your money. The difference is one party doesn't lie about it. One party isn't hypocritical about it. One party didn't just leave office after 8 years of spending, spending and more spending and then 2 weeks later start pretending they are the party of less government and less spending.

How much more money do democrats have to spend in order to exceed what the republicans spent the last 8.

Does Less government could mean the same amount of power with less public servants or same amount of public servants doing less for the poeple.


Oh and for the most part they both "believe in Santa Claus", it's just one of them is less apt to force him down your throat.
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Santa Clause are the tax payers and Christmas is everyday.
 
Hmm, I would roughly sum up conservatism as traditionalism and liberalism as anti-traditionalism. :p
 
In terms of spending, the only difference between republicans and democrats is that the democrats at least pay lip service into trying to pay for it. Call me crazy, but that sounds a lot more conservative than just throwing all of it on your credit card bill.

Or course, socially, democrats fit far more into the "conservative" ideal of small government, although when conservative is used in a social sense, it generally applies to highly intrusive government activity limiting the actions of the citizens. Go figure.
 
According to that 13-year old kid, Jonathan Krohn, the four tenets of Conservatism includes

-Support for the United States Constitution
-Respect for life,
-Less government
-More Personal Responsibility.

Yet most conservatives these days have a disdain in general for the Constitution. They support the President doing all sorts of things which are in total violation of the Constitution (if not international law - which is also US law as we generally sign these treaties into our books as well so as to make it law here) which include taking prisoners depriving them of all rights and torturing them in brutal and horrific ways, abducting prisoners, taking them to foreign countries where it's legal to carry out the most brutal acts of torture. They supported the NSA's rampant wiretapping and eavesdropping on ordinary Americans -- which is definetly not in the spirit of the constitution. They supported the Military Commissions act which allows the President and SecDef to arbitrarily lable even American citizens as enemy combatants and detain them, deny them counsel, and torture them.

Regarding less government, the so called conservatives may talk about this, but their conduct is not reflective of it. They support enormous military spending, enormous government power, and yes a gigantic powerful government that has the means to grossly intrude into the lives of ordinary people.


INRM
 
INRM said:
According to that 13-year old kid, Jonathan Krohn, the four tenets of Conservatism includes

-Support for the United States Constitution
-Respect for life,
-Less government
-More Personal Responsibility.

Yet most conservatives these days have a disdain in general for the Constitution. They support the President doing all sorts of things which are in total violation of the Constitution (if not international law - which is also US law as we generally sign these treaties into our books as well so as to make it law here) which include taking prisoners depriving them of all rights and torturing them in brutal and horrific ways, abducting prisoners, taking them to foreign countries where it's legal to carry out the most brutal acts of torture. They supported the NSA's rampant wiretapping and eavesdropping on ordinary Americans -- which is definetly not in the spirit of the constitution. They supported the Military Commissions act which allows the President and SecDef to arbitrarily lable even American citizens as enemy combatants and detain them, deny them counsel, and torture them.

Regarding less government, the so called conservatives may talk about this, but their conduct is not reflective of it. They support enormous military spending, enormous government power, and yes a gigantic powerful government that has the means to grossly intrude into the lives of ordinary people.


INRM
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I'm glad you didn't apply, for the $1 Million would be gone, for sure.
Because I consider myself a conservative (small "c"), and that is EXACTLY how I think.:rolleyes:
 
INRM said:
According to that 13-year old kid, Jonathan Krohn, the four tenets of Conservatism includes

-Support for the United States Constitution
-Respect for life,
-Less government
-More Personal Responsibility.

Yet most conservatives these days have a disdain in general for the Constitution. They support the President doing all sorts of things which are in total violation of the Constitution (if not international law - which is also US law as we generally sign these treaties into our books as well so as to make it law here) which include taking prisoners depriving them of all rights and torturing them in brutal and horrific ways, abducting prisoners, taking them to foreign countries where it's legal to carry out the most brutal acts of torture. They supported the NSA's rampant wiretapping and eavesdropping on ordinary Americans -- which is definetly not in the spirit of the constitution. They supported the Military Commissions act which allows the President and SecDef to arbitrarily lable even American citizens as enemy combatants and detain them, deny them counsel, and torture them.

Regarding less government, the so called conservatives may talk about this, but their conduct is not reflective of it. They support enormous military spending, enormous government power, and yes a gigantic powerful government that has the means to grossly intrude into the lives of ordinary people.


INRM
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Most liberals these days have a poor understanding of and disdain in general for conservatives.
 
-Support for the United States Constitution

Only if they have some strange definition of support that equals trample and gut.

-Respect for life

Hm, only if that means unborn life. Once you are out of the womb, you are on your own/fair game.

-Less government

Except that bit of the government that they wish to trot around the globe carrying guns, and the bit that intrudes into the bedroom, yes?

-More Personal Responsibility.

Except for that bit about using corporations to pillage maximum personal profit while taking minimum personal responsibility, I see.

Looks like a big fail on all counts to me.
 
Patsy said:
-Support for the United States Constitution

Only if they have some strange definition of support that equals trample and gut.

-Respect for life

Hm, only if that means unborn life. Once you are out of the womb, you are on your own/fair game.

-Less government

Except that bit of the government that they wish to trot around the globe carrying guns, and the bit that intrudes into the bedroom, yes?

-More Personal Responsibility.

Except for that bit about using corporations to pillage maximum personal profit while taking minimum personal responsibility, I see.

Looks like a big fail on all counts to me.
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Oh, but see, those aren't TRUE Conservatives.

I'd like to hear the conservatives actually make a case, using these principles, that Bush was more conservative than Clinton.

Unless you consider "personal responsibility" to include only not committing adultery, there isn't much of a case.
 
h.g.Whiz said:
Santa Clause are the tax payers and Christmas is everyday.
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I should probably put this in my sig to save time:

What is it with Americans and taxes? You've got one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized, developed world and yet you still complain about them. Get over it already.
 
Since when is the meaning of Conservative...... static??

Democrats used to be racists and rural.
 
INRM said:
I personally think that most Conservatives are not truly conservatives except in the fact that they don't want any of their taxpayer dollars going to any form of welfare or anything of that sort. Otherwise though, they don't fit the bill. They are more than willing to have a gigantically powerful government, and are definitely willing to spend enormous amounts of money to feed it.

Conservatives by definition are supposed to generally be people who want small government that doesn't end up intruding into people's private lives, and able to perform basic services with the rest done via the private sector. I have thought of this for awhile, and sometime back on another forum which was actually dominated by these particular people, I stated this more or less to a similar extent and said that I thought that most Conservatives' attitudes would more properly be called "Right-Wing Authoritarian".


What are your opinions?


INRM
Click to expand...

You need to define your terms:

Social Conservative?--Christian Right
Fiscal Conservative?---Club for Growth
Paleo-Conservative?---John Birch Society
Neoconservative?---- Red Diaper Babies
Conservative Libertarian?-- Cato Institute

All fall under the "Conservative" umbrella and form coalitions when convenient with the exception of Paleo-conservatives who claim to be the only "true" Conservatives.

As to "right-wing authoritarianism" they can't hold a candle to the far Left when it comes to telling us how to lead our lives.
 
Corsair 115 said:
I should probably put this in my sig to save time:

What is it with Americans and taxes? You've got one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized, developed world and yet you still complain about them. Get over it already.
Click to expand...

I would say that a lot Americans are opposed to more taxes because they think the government is incompetent and already gets enough of our money to waste. They see many large government run programs unsuccessful or severely lacking in their stated goals vs results. The ones that do work are trillions in debt. At least that's my take. Plus you will likely get vastly different answers regarding this based on the state the person is from. If you tell someone from California, NY, or NJ to pay more taxes they might have an aneurysm.
 
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