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Stossel Solves the Health Crisis with Capitalism

I should add that the "one-step ahead" countries Francesca refers to are all having to deal with massive healthcare inflation and/or have to intervene in the insurance market to make sure everyone gets covered.

BTW, Switzerland has the second most expensive healthcare system in the world.
 
Even assuming that Medicaid is available, so I won't die, how do I avoid ending up losing everything I have before then? Or going on a yo-yo style trip up and down with my finances. This will plague me for the rest of my life....how do I live with it?
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You can get on SSI if you have a rare or costly condition. My friend with SSI that I mentioned above filled out an application and they even gave him 10 year+ back pay because he was eligible from an early age, but his family never applied for the help.

There are also income based programs that will give you care on a payment plan.
 
Do you know if he was employed with this same company at the time of the crash? If so, good, because he didn't have a pre-existing condition at the time of hire. If not, he was lucky to have found this job.
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He was in an accident as a kid. Why would he be lucky to find this job? I'm almost sure other companies operate the same way. We worked for a mom and pop company.

Is he going to be employed at this company for the rest of his life? He could lose his job through any number of unfortunate circumstances.
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Continue offering more and more ways to get insurance besides work. If all else fails he can get one of the programs I talked about above.

There's the rub. Under a UHC system you don't have to guess. It's just known that he's covered, potential employers don't need to worry about adding a potentially expensive patient to their plan.
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We talked about alts already.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
and suppose this, and suppose that......

He could get on SSI, or get another job with HC benefits. Again, maybe there should be other ways for insurance to be available. Banks are starting to offer insurance coverage, my college is offering HC coverage to students.
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Well, I think we have to suppose this and suppose that. Remember the woman in the Stossel film with the breast cancer? She had moved to temporary coverage while she established herself in a new business. She was only in her thirties and in apparently good health. What if someone had said to her, but suppose you contract a serious, chronic illness while you're on this temporary plan?

You'll have to tell me again what SSI is, and what you need to do to qualify.

He could get another job with healthcare benefits? But this was the question. Is such a job guaranteed? What about his bills while he's job-hunting? And what if he can't secure such a job?

And while we're on the subject, what if his preferred life choice is to pursue a self-employed route? What if he could be a great inventor, or musician, or entrepreneur? He has no freedom to explore these life choices, has he?

Are banks offering affordable insurance cover to people with serious pre-existing conditions? Is your college offering affordable healthcare coverage to students with serious pre-existing conditions?

Dan, the reason we ask about all the what-ifs is that they happen. In a country of 300 million people just about anything we can think about probably happens multiple times. We know that in a universal-access system people with long-term healthcare requirements are in no way restricted in their life choices because of the need to consider how their treatment will be funded. And they are not required to spend every penny they have and become bankrupt before they are eligible for "free" healthcare.

We like these freedoms, and we're not sure why you don't want them.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
<snip>Dan, the reason we ask about all the what-ifs is that they happen. In a country of 300 million people just about anything we can think about probably happens multiple times. <snip>
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And on top of that is that we know the answers to the 'what if's' under the system we have here. The answer is 'they get treatment' Always. All the time.
 
Dan - you are just providing more and more evidence for what I stated in this post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.p...94#post4496094

What you have in the USA is a system that you can claim isn't "socialist" yet everywhere you look it seems to fudge it to provide a (albeit poor) level of "universal" health care.
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I realize we have semi-soc HC already, and as crappy as it is, we put up with it because the alternative death. Why isn't the fact that our soc-HC system horrible and has 2 month wait times proof enough that it will be a bad idea to do this?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I realize we have semi-soc HC already, and as crappy as it is, we put up with it because the alternative death. Why isn't the fact that our soc-HC system horrible and has 2 month wait times proof enough that it will be a bad idea to do this?
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Sorry don't follow you - "proof enough that it will be a bad idea to do this"? Do what?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
An auto insurance company gave me $3,000 to replace a tail light ($250 at the dealership). The reason they do it is because if they don't and get sued, it's over.
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You are living in bizarro-world, from my perspective.

First, the excess on my car insurance policy is about £200, which would motivate me not to claim for a small item anyway. Second, I have a no-claim bonus. This is standard in the motor insurance industry, for exactly the purpose of deterring small claims. If I claim, then my future premiums will rise probably by more than the amount of that claim. Thus, I only claim if I have a fairly serious chunk of damage.

Third, every time I ever claimed for anything, the garage fixed the car and the insurance company paid the garage bill (less the excess, which I paid them myself). And if I was unfortunate enough to write the car off, I know I'd get less that it would cost me to buy an identical car second-hand, because they only pay out what they decide I could have sold the car for immediately before the damage.

You seem to have wider problems than healthcare insurance.

Rolfe.
 
You are living in bizarro-world, from my perspective.

First, the excess on my car insurance policy is about £200, which would motivate me not to claim for a small item anyway. Second, I have a no-claim bonus. This is standard in the motor insurance industry, for exactly the purpose of deterring small claims. If I claim, then my future premiums will rise probably by more than the amount of that claim. Thus, I only claim if I have a fairly serious chunk of damage.

Third, every time I ever claimed for anything, the garage fixed the car and the insurance company paid the garage bill (less the excess, which I paid them myself). And if I was unfortunate enough to write the car off, I know I'd get less that it would cost me to buy an identical car second-hand, because they only pay out what they decide I could have sold the car for immediately before the damage.

You seem to have wider problems than healthcare insurance.
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I was parked and didn't need to make a claim on my insurance. Cleaned up!:D

We're a very litigious people.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I was parked and didn't need to make a claim on my insurance. Cleaned up!:D

We're a very litigious people.
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Hold on, hold on. Weren't you the one denigrating freeloaders who want something for nothing earlier on? Isn't your entire ideology predicated on a desire to be self-sufficient?

How can you say all that and then admit, with a straight face, that you've basically stolen $2750 from the people in your insurance pool?! :jaw-dropp
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
This link is full of crappy WHO statistics that have already been shown to be out of wack with reality. Remember, these are the same people who think COLUMBIA has better HC than the US.
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I accept it's unproven that Columbia has better health care than the US.

I'm not sure how you've arrived at the conclusion that it's been proved to be worse. Did I miss that bit?
 
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DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I realize we have semi-soc HC already, and as crappy as it is, we put up with it because the alternative death. Why isn't the fact that our soc-HC system horrible and has 2 month wait times proof enough that it will be a bad idea to do this?
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You really need to stop coming back to the problems you have with your system at the moment as reasons why you shouldn't change anything.

You know, one of the big reasons I think you have such problems with you safety-net system is almoning. All the carry-on about proving whether people are eligible for treatment under the schemes, especially Medicaid. And people delaying treatment for progressive conditions while they wait to become eligible.

But another HUGE reason is that the safety-net schemes cater for the "underclass". The poor and the retired. The economically active don't have to put up with them, and especially the decision makers and the people who have most influence with the decision makers don't have to put up with them.

Someone else said that they would only accept the idea of universal healthcare in the USA if it was compulsory for the politicians to use it.

Quite right. Not that it's legally forbidden for politicians here to "go private" - it's just political suicide.

This just happened.

Mr Hague told MPs he had spoken to Mr Cameron, who wanted to pass on the family's thanks for their messages of condolence and say how "hugely grateful" they were to the NHS staff who had helped Ivan throughout his life. [....]

Friends have said the experience of caring for Ivan broadened Mr Cameron's political outlook and made him a passionate supporter of the NHS, which helped provide the round-the-clock care Ivan needed.

"The problems that Ivan had in some way shaped that family and shaped David as a person," said George Osborne.

In a 2007 speech, Mr Cameron described how he cared for the "severely disabled" Ivan.

"It's what I do at the start of each day. It's sharpened my focus on the world of care assessments, eligibility criteria, disability living allowance, respite breaks, OTs, SENCOs, and other sets of initials. "But I would not dare to call myself a carer. The work that full-time carers or those with little extra help do is unbelievable."
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Cameron could easily afford private treatment for his son. But it would have been very expensive nevertheless, and even more importantly the private system probably couldn't have done as good a job as the NHS, given the rarity and severity of the child's condition. Even though he's as rich as Croesus, and a Conservative politician, he chose the "free" healthcare he and his family are entitled to.

The Prime Minister is in much the same boat.

Mr Brown's spokesman added: "Thousands of other parents are in the same position.

"They are confident that the advice and treatments available, including proper exercise and, later, sporting activity will keep him fit and healthy.

"The NHS is doing a great job, and Gordon and Sarah are very optimistic that the advances being made in medicine will help him and many others, and they hope to be able to play their part in doing what they can to help others."
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So is most of the rest of the population. Including the people with influence on the government. You want some way to persuade your politicians to make the system work? It's not that hard.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
What I don't understand is what insurance companies add to a universal-access system. I know that standard universal-access healthcare in a number of European countries is provided through insurance companies, and these systems appear to be no more expensive per skull than ones which don't. So clearly it must be possible to run a profitable insurance company and still not inflate costs unacceptably, though I'm still a but hazy how it's done.
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Many of those systems do not permit the basic health coverage part to be profitable to the company. The company makes its money on selling suplemental insurance. So you can be sure if you are hospitalized you will get a private room for example.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I was parked and didn't need to make a claim on my insurance. Cleaned up!:D

We're a very litigious people.
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Oh, I see. You made a claim on someone else's insurance.

An excessive, inflated claim, that allowed you to pocket a lot of money.

Freeloader.

But even so, I'm pretty sure insurance companies here aren't that easy to take for a ride.

Rolfe.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Ok, someone who supports insurance based healthcare please tell me what I would do.

I would get on my parents premium. Great news, I get my first round of operations on insurance. I'm going to need more, so, and forgive me if I am wrong, could the insurance company not hike up the cost a massive amount when my parents come to renew the cover? Given that I'll still be on this plan for another 18 years, wouldn't the company, knowing I would need further care, ramp up the price? Would this still be affordable for my parents?

Next, assuming they can't or my parents can pay, I turn 18 but go to university. Ok, I'm fine for my time over the course but I'm graduating this summer, I need a job. The economy is in a downturn and I know I can't afford a premium on my own, so what if I can't get a job? Or can only get a basic one that doesn't have insurance? What happens?
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You can stay on your parents plan for 18 months if the premiums get paid. This is the law that protects people who lose their jobs from losing their health care right away.

If neither you or them could afford it, with a cronic condition like that you might qualify for medicaid.

Even assuming that Medicaid is available, so I won't die, how do I avoid ending up losing everything I have before then? Or going on a yo-yo style trip up and down with my finances. This will plague me for the rest of my life....how do I live with it?
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I am not sufficiently versed in the health care system to answer this.
 
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