Can theists be rational?

[Belz...]

My faith in God is not blind! Jesus is who he says he is!!

And someone, just the other day, was trying to claim that Kathy is not trolling...

 

[Belz...]

In this case, I'm promoting alternate possibilities, which others are ruling out.

Yes. Indeed, I'm ruling that possibility out, on several grounds:

1- Lack of evidence
2- Unecessary entities
3- Hypothesis has no impact on anything.

It's like solipsism. Dead, dead, dead.

 

[westprog]

I'm ruling that possibility out,

Thread over, then.

 

[Herzblut]

That might be a sensible way to live your life if you did live in a simulation.

It might also be worth considering how you want to appear if all your private moments might appear on a DVD compilation sometime.

I see. For many people it's possibly useful to imagine they had to justify their conduct before some higher order instance. It's not so for me, since I prefer to judge my conduct by means of another reasoning.

 

[westprog]

I see. For many people it's possibly useful to imagine they had to justify their conduct before some higher order instance. It's not so for me, since I prefer to judge my conduct by means of another reasoning.

And on what basis do you justify your conduct?

 

[Herzblut]

And on what basis do you justify your conduct?

Trying to match it against a categorical imperative. I imagine that to be within me, not above me (or others).

 

[Paulhoff]

How so? Are there any atheists here who are skeptical about the existence of a material world made of physical matter? If so, I'd like to meet them.

The atom is about 99.999999999999% empty space, so please tell me more about the material world which without the four forces is almost not there.

Paul

 

[westprog]

Trying to match it against a categorical imperative. I imagine that to be within me, not above me (or others).

But then how do you produce a guide to conduct if it's entirely internal?

 

[Herzblut]

But then how do you produce a guide to conduct if it's entirely internal?

I assume I'm an autonomous, rational being with inviolable human dignity. And others have the same dignity which, hence, I must not violate. This dignity (and autonomy) is inherent, based on the mere fact of being human. It is not donated or revealed and cannot be denied by anything or anybody.

 

[L The Detective]

But then how do you produce a guide to conduct if it's entirely internal?

Most moral systems break down into a simple idea anyway; treat others as you would be treated. If you're logically able to get on board with that idea, and I am, then that's pretty much all the guide you need.

 

[fls]

Most moral systems break down into a simple idea anyway; treat others as you would be treated. If you're logically able to get on board with that idea, and I am, then that's pretty much all the guide you need.

That's a crappy guide - it's asymmetric.

Linda

 

[L The Detective]

That's a crappy guide - it's asymmetric.

That's a good point. What about "treat all life as equal value to your own." I know I should make a distinction there for human life, but I don't know, that seems kind of arbitrary to me.

 

[westprog]

I assume I'm an autonomous, rational being with inviolable human dignity. And others have the same dignity which, hence, I must not violate. This dignity (and autonomy) is inherent, based on the mere fact of being human. It is not donated or revealed and cannot be denied by anything or anybody.

Most moral systems break down into a simple idea anyway; treat others as you would be treated. If you're logically able to get on board with that idea, and I am, then that's pretty much all the guide you need.

But where does the human dignity come from? Why treat others as you would be treated?

 

[fls]

But where does the human dignity come from? Why treat others as you would be treated?

Self-interest.

Linda

 

[westprog]

Self-interest.

Linda

I don't think that's what Herzblut is citing. If the fundamental principle is self-interest, then human dignity is nothing special.

 

[L The Detective]

But where does the human dignity come from? Why treat others as you would be treated?

Speaking only for myself, I believe it's in your own best long-term interests. I believe that human beings are social animals, and that in order to be happy it's necessary to have honest relationships with others. I believe that's fundamentally impossible if you consider your own life to be more valuable than other lives. So striving to be a "good" person and striving to be "happy" to me are basically intertwined.

Also, society works better if it's a group of people working together, and not working towards their own self-interest. In my opinion, that's why we have laws, to protect the honest ones from those working towards their own self-interest.

But that's just my amatuer philosophy talking, and maybe it's completely flawed, I don't know.

 

[Paulhoff]

But where does the human dignity come from? Why treat others as you would be treated?

Daaaaaaaaa, you treat other people good because you what to wake up in the morning. Daaaaaaaaa

Paul

 

[westprog]

Daaaaaaaaa, you treat other people good because you what to wake up in the morning. Daaaaaaaaa

Paul

It might be just me, but I can't quite follow any of what Paulhoff is saying. Random words seem to have been substituted.

 

[fls]

I don't think that's what Herzblut is citing. If the fundamental principle is self-interest, then human dignity is nothing special.

I doubt an ant thinks human dignity is special.

Linda

 

[L The Detective]

It might be just me, but I can't quite follow any of what Paulhoff is saying. Random words seem to have been substituted.

Forget about the people who are mocking you. They aren't interested in what you have to say. I *am.*