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Pakistan Government Deathwatch.

The Atheist

The Grammar Tyrant
The Atheist
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
36,399
It's been obvious from the start that Zardari's presidency was going to be a stop-gap measure as he rode to victory on the sympathy from his wife's assassination.

I made a comment a few weeks back that another miltary coup seemed likely in the near future, but that may well have been superceded by a more immediate threat - the Supreme Court of Pakistan has today disqualified the former coalition partner of Zardari and former president, Nawaz Sharif, from holding political office.

The scene is nicely set for a three-way power struggle [at least] with the only certainty being that Zardari will lose. The Sharifs will need to mount their opposition in a way of getting enough support to throw Zardari out with civil insurrection, because that will be just asking the Army to assume command again.

Fascinating stuff - all in a nuclear-armed country.

NYT has more.
 
This seems like a perfect storm for big trouble.
A country already unstable being torn apart by factions.
Terrorist groups operating from Pakistan launching attacks on Neighboring Countries (Afghanistan, India) and looking as if they will gain control over large parts of the country.
Plenty of religous fanatics.
Bad enough on it's own, but throw in Nuclear Weapon possesion and it like something of a nightmare.
 
dudalb said:
This seems like a perfect storm for big trouble.
A country already unstable being torn apart by factions.
Terrorist groups operating from Pakistan launching attacks on Neighboring Countries (Afghanistan, India) and looking as if they will gain control over large parts of the country.
Plenty of religous fanatics.
Bad enough on it's own, but throw in Nuclear Weapon possesion and it like something of a nightmare.
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You really have to wonder what India is thinking right now.
 
So will Gordon Brown join Zimbabwe and Pakistan back to the Great colonial British Empire? :D America should know something about british colonialism since America was a british colony just like Pakistan. ;)
 
moon1969 said:
So will Gordon Brown join Zimbabwe and Pakistan back to the Great colonial British Empire? :D America should know something about british colonialism since America was a british colony just like Pakistan. ;)
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Another incomprehensible post from Moon1969 having nothing to do with the subject at hand.
 
It's kind of tragically ironic actually... after 9/11 the west (kind of) woke up and smelled the coffee, and realised Radical Islam was actually a real threat that needed to be dealt with. So we charged in and busted ass in Afghanistan, only to be distracted by the "ooh shiny" of Iraq. And Bush and his warmongering friends cannot take all of the blame for that. The man-loving, war-hating leftists of the west became obsessed with Iraq. While the west became fixated on Iraq this ugly, dangerous mess was allowed to grow unmolested.
 
gumboot said:
While the west became fixated on Iraq this ugly, dangerous mess was allowed to grow unmolested.
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This is bizarre.

In what way has Pakistan been "allowed" to do anything.

Is it any relation to whatever authority "allowed" USA to attack Iraq?

I don't recall allowing either of those things. I certainly told Imran Khan not to let it happen in Pakistan and I did e mail Bush making it very clear he didn't have my approval for his invasion.
 
Texas said:
You really have to wonder what India is thinking right now.
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Since most of these events are resulting in both the pakistian army and establishment no longer thinking of india as the primary oponent they may not be as worried as you would expect.
 
The Atheist said:
This is bizarre.

In what way has Pakistan been "allowed" to do anything.
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Had the international community remained focused on Afghanistan and actually made a serious effort to fix things there, the huge influx of radicals into the Pakistani frontier never would have occurred, and the situation wouldn't now be so dire.

Every time the Hindustani Fanatics (as they were known once upon a time) rear their heads the global powers deal them a savage blow then ignore them, leaving the survivors to sneak away and rebuild for another day. And every time they come back stronger and more fanatical than last time. How many more times will it take before they come back with a nuclear bomb? Last time they seized control of a country.
 
gumboot said:
Had the international community remained focused on Afghanistan and actually made a serious effort to fix things there, the huge influx of radicals into the Pakistani frontier never would have occurred, and the situation wouldn't now be so dire.

Every time the Hindustani Fanatics (as they were known once upon a time) rear their heads the global powers deal them a savage blow then ignore them, leaving the survivors to sneak away and rebuild for another day. And every time they come back stronger and more fanatical than last time. How many more times will it take before they come back with a nuclear bomb? Last time they seized control of a country.
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Yaeh, I get all that; I'm just flabbergasted that people still think it's anyone else's business but those countries where it's happening.

History - making the same mistakes your grandfather made.

(Hell, I might even out that in my sig!)
 
The Atheist said:
Yaeh, I get all that; I'm just flabbergasted that people still think it's anyone else's business but those countries where it's happening.
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You obviously do, or you wouldn't have created this thread. The bottom line is it is everyone else's business. The quaint notion that states are isolated islands independent of every other state is long, long dead. Two World Wars and 100 million dead set that myth to rest well and truly. What affects one state affects all surrounding states. When you're talking about a nuclear power it's most certainly everyone's problem.
 
gumboot said:
You obviously do, or you wouldn't have created this thread.
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Nope. I just find it fascinating and a nice alternative to the million threads on Israel.

gumboot said:
The bottom line is it is everyone else's business. The quaint notion that states are isolated islands independent of every other state is long, long dead. Two World Wars and 100 million dead set that myth to rest well and truly.
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Funnily enough, from my knowledge of the wars, I'd say that your type of attitude is far more responsible than mine.

If 60 million Krauts hadn't accepted Hitler's foreign policy, we wouldn't have had WWII.

gumboot said:
What affects one state affects all surrounding states. When you're talking about a nuclear power it's most certainly everyone's problem.
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Wrong again.

I dunno where you learned your history, but whoever you learnt it from missed the point.
 
The Atheist said:
Funnily enough, from my knowledge of the wars, I'd say that your type of attitude is far more responsible than mine.

If 60 million Krauts hadn't accepted Hitler's foreign policy, we wouldn't have had WWII.
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Your knowledge of WWI and WWII appears to be woefully lacking.


The Atheist said:
Wrong again.

I dunno where you learned your history, but whoever you learnt it from missed the point.
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I think my irony meter just exploded.
 
gumboot said:
Your knowledge of WWI and WWII appears to be woefully lacking.
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Yeah, hell it probably is.

I got most of the knowledge from people who were actually involved in it. They're bound to not know what the hell they're talking about.

On the other hand, which country where "intervention" has been involved turned out well so far?

Iraq?
Iran?
Cambodia?
Viet Nam?

Grow some eyes, boy.

Mate, I've seen enough of your fallacies since you've been here. How's that lunatic/crime/moon link going?

Polaris said:
Well, last time a country was left to its own designs...
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Oh my god. Are you Dubbya?

Whose fault was it? Afghanistan for supporting Al Qaeda? Or the US security services for allowing a bunch of people armed with knives onto planes?

The subsequent change in airport and aircraft security answers that question.

And Afghanistan's going so well, eh? So well that another new shipment of intending body-bag dwellers is being sent over.
 
The Atheist said:
Oh my god. Are you Dubbya?

Whose fault was it? Afghanistan for supporting Al Qaeda? Or the US security services for allowing a bunch of people armed with knives onto planes?
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Both. But mostly al-Qaida for committing it and Afghanistan for happily becoming a host the aforementioned parasites.

The Atheist said:
And Afghanistan's going so well, eh? So well that another new shipment of intending body-bag dwellers is being sent over.
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Kind of hard for Afghanistan to go well when it's getting aid, comfort and a safe haven (minus the occasional missile strike that the Pakistani street for some reason thinks is a bad thing) from the ISI. Not to mention a quite pronounced lack of ruthlessness in dealing with the scum of the earth there.
 
Polaris said:
Kind of hard for Afghanistan to go well when it's getting aid, comfort and a safe haven (minus the occasional missile strike that the Pakistani street for some reason thinks is a bad thing) from the ISI. Not to mention a quite pronounced lack of ruthlessness in dealing with the scum of the earth there.
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Gee, and Afghanistan had had such a nice, simple history for all those years beforehand.

Pray tell, what on earth would you have done 20 years ago? Even using hindsight, do offer a realistic alternative to what actually happened.

Like Gumboot, you're living in Fantasyland. You have the stark evidence of the number of horrendous ****-ups around the planet caused by intervention in someone else's business, but you want more.

Frankly, the cry of "What about 9/11?" has become long past its use-by date. The number of corpses illegally killed by invading forces in Iraq and Afghanistan is exponentially higher than than from 9/11. Why on earth don't you at least be honest and propose genocide? Nuke 'em all!
 
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