Universal Health Care in the US. Yea or Nea?

Universal Health Care in America?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 68 61.8%

  • No!

    Votes: 24 21.8%

  • Don't care.

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • I don't know enough either way to answer right now.

    Votes: 10 9.1%

  • Universal Shemp Care.

    Votes: 6 5.5%
  • Total voters
    110
  • Poll closed .
How much does Walmart charge for chemo
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Okay, are we talking immediately, or in the future? I'm was thinking that since the basic health cost could be cover cheap and out of pocket, that people could just buy additional coverage from insurance companies like the Brits or the Canadians.
 
volatile said:
Of course it's been tried. The failure of such systems lead to the creation of systems like the NHS in the first place. What do you think happened in the UK before universal healthcare was set up?
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Well my grandparents ended up in debt for a long time to my grandfather's employer who (very kindly) loaned them the money they needed to try and get treatment for their first child. (She died but the loan still had to be paid back, ironical they were still paying it back after the NHS was founded.) My grandmother had to live with (what turned out to be a) benign tumour on her arm that restricted her movement for nearly 15 years before the NHS was founded and she could "afford" to have it removed.

I am well aware from my own family's history what a free market health care system delivers for anyone not wealthy.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
That's a tough question. It would be hard to do something immediately other than give them "pre-paid" HC, but we can provision some cash aside for the immediate needs and still work towards a freer system. I'm sure there are people smarter than me who can figure out a way. The advances in laser-eye surgery has been very fast and hopefully that is a sign of how other branches of medicine can change.
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Cherry picking an elective, non-invasive medical procedure performed on outpatients and using it as an example of how much cheaper all healthcare could be if turned over to the free market is rather naive or misleading, depending on the person's motives.

On the 20/20 interview, this guy said that pharma. companies where responsible for developing 96% of drugs on the market now (the rest were from gov). It's hard to ignore that.
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What does this have to do with the provision of medical care to people who need it?

Are you suggesting patients deal with pharmaceutical companies directly?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Okay, are we talking immediately, or in the future? I'm was thinking that since the basic health cost could be cover cheap and out of pocket, that people could just buy additional coverage from insurance companies like the Brits or the Canadians.
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We can buy private health insurance, but we don't have to. And we will still get the chemo. What about people who get cancer that can't afford the extra insurance?
 
Can you not see the difference between an elective surgery like lasik and something like diabetes treatment? Seriously?
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Can you not see the point I'm making? I'm trying to show good things that result from free market competition. What is they could do for diabetes meds what they did for lasik, and make it cheaper and better?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Okay, are we talking immediately, or in the future? I'm was thinking that since the basic health cost could be cover cheap and out of pocket, that people could just buy additional coverage from insurance companies like the Brits or the Canadians.
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Ok. So what about the people who cannot afford insurance? Or the insurance companies whose cover maxes out below the cost of chronic treatments? What about your system is actually better than what you have now?
 
oggiesnr said:
And the founding of the NHS was a direct result of it not working.

Actually that's a bit simplistic as there were charity hospitals and the like pre-NHS and going back a bit further if you were in a workhouse (the last one ones only closed in 1930, my wife's grandmother was born in one) then you got rudimentary health care as part of the package so to speak. The establishment of the NHS was one of the raft of proposals that got Labour elected (to much surprise) in 1945.

Steve
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And often if you were treated in a workhouse the cost of the treatment was added to your slate....
 
Cherry picking an elective, non-invasive medical procedure performed on outpatients and using it as an example of how much cheaper all healthcare could be if turned over to the free market is rather naive or misleading, depending on the person's motives.
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Or it could be just an example. How about I use the artificial heart. It that better? It was still developed by a private company.
 
volatile said:
Ok. So what about the people who cannot afford insurance? Or the insurance companies whose cover maxes out below the cost of chronic treatments? What about your system is actually better than what you have now?
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If cost drop low enough, most people would be able to afford the meds ideally. Those who can't could set up payment arraingments. Those who are on their death bed should have no problem getting the care they need from private charitable organizations.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Can you not see the point I'm making? I'm trying to show good things that result from free market competition. What is they could do for diabetes meds what they did for lasik, and make it cheaper and better?
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Diabetes treatment or cancer treatment is not optional. You cannot create extra demand for chemo by advertising. Francesca has already explained to you things like adverse selection and market failure. I'm sure you read the links she provided.

Please explain how competition between chemotherapy providers will work, particularly for people with no money. How will the market drop the price of chemo to a level that someone earning minimum wage can afford?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
If cost drop low enough, most people would be able to afford the meds ideally. Those who can't could set up payment arraingments. Those who are on their death bed should have no problem getting the care they need from private charitable organizations.
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Why would chemo therapies drop in price?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
If cost drop low enough, most people would be able to afford the meds ideally. Those who can't could set up payment arraingments. Those who are on their death bed should have no problem getting the care they need from private charitable organizations.
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How will people with no money be able to repay the millions of dollars it might cost to treat severe illness? How will "private charities" get enough money to pay for the same?

You realise you're essentially proposing a Victorian healthcare system?
 
Why wouldn't private companies be developing medical treatments if you had a universal health care system?
 
Please explain how competition between chemotherapy providers will work, particularly for people with no money. How will the market drop the price of chemo to a level that someone earning minimum wage can afford?
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Who do you know that has NO money?? Why would you think Chemo meds are impossible to make cheap enough for most people to afford?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Who do you know that has NO money??

...snip...
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Lots of people in the USA struggle to provide even food and shelter, thinking they could somehow pay for health insurance as well is, to be blunt, fantasy.

DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Why would you think Chemo meds are impossible to make cheap enough for most people to afford?
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Its your claim -you support it, perhaps by explaining why currently chemo drugs are not cheap enough for most people to afford would be one way of addressing your claim?

DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Less incentive for profit?
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Why?
 
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