Universal Health Care in the US. Yea or Nea?

Universal Health Care in America?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 68 61.8%

  • No!

    Votes: 24 21.8%

  • Don't care.

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • I don't know enough either way to answer right now.

    Votes: 10 9.1%

  • Universal Shemp Care.

    Votes: 6 5.5%
  • Total voters
    110
  • Poll closed .
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
I don't see why this article means that free market HC doesn't work. The way the system is currently set up isn't a "free market system" as has been mentioned in this thread. We are already somewhat breaking our backs on the Medicare system we have.
Click to expand...

OK, so your proposals are more marketisation, right? Make the healthcare market freer?

Can you explain how those 11 million suffers of chronic disease who cannot currently get treatment (whose wait times,as I said, are effectively infinite) will benefit if even the current paltry government provision is removed? How will the market provide for these people? How will this completely free-market system you propose help these people?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Isn't everyone taxed that can pay?
Click to expand...
Yes - but you said you would prefer it to be known as "paid for at the point of delivery" rather than "free at the point of delivery". That would in general terms be wrong, we do not pay for our treatment at the point of delivery.
 
Last edited:
You just seem ideologically wedded to a worse, more expensive, less effective system. That strikes me as an indication that perhaps your ideology needs tweaking. When the facts disagree with ideology, why stick with the ideology? It doesn't seem very rational to me. Almost religious.
Click to expand...

I'm not wedded, I'm really trying to learn how all of this works. Everyone here has proven that their UHC is cheaper and I can't find anything that disputes that. I did find an article that suggests the WHO rankings are faulty and I'm interested in flushing that out as much as possible.

I'm just trying to do what I thought skeptics were supposed to do, ask questions.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY - can you point to actual "free market health systems" as examples of what you would propose for the USA?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
<snip>

I did find an article that suggests the WHO rankings are faulty and I'm interested in flushing that out as much as possible.

I'm just trying to do what I thought skeptics were supposed to do, ask questions.
Click to expand...

The WHO rankings probably don't reflect what you consider important in a healthcare system, which I'm guessing is absolute peak health outcome irrespective of cost.
 
Can you explain how those 11 million suffers of chronic disease who cannot currently get treatment (whose wait times,as I said, are effectively infinite) will benefit if even the current paltry government provision is removed? How will the market provide for these people? How will this completely free-market system you propose help these people?
Click to expand...

That's a tough question. It would be hard to do something immediately other than give them "pre-paid" HC, but we can provision some cash aside for the immediate needs and still work towards a freer system. I'm sure there are people smarter than me who can figure out a way. The advances in laser-eye surgery has been very fast and hopefully that is a sign of how other branches of medicine can change.

On the 20/20 interview, this guy said that pharma. companies where responsible for developing 96% of drugs on the market now (the rest were from gov). It's hard to ignore that.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
That's a tough question. It would be hard to do something immediately other than give them "pre-paid" HC, but we can provision some cash aside for the immediate needs and still work towards a freer system. I'm sure there are people smarter than me who can figure out a way. The advances in laser-eye surgery has been very fast and hopefully that is a sign of how other branches of medicine can change.

On the 20/20 interview, this guy said that pharma. companies where responsible for developing 96% of drugs on the market now (the rest were from gov). It's hard to ignore that.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about immediately. I'm talking about in principle.

How would your "free-market" system be better? Give me details. How will those who cannot currently afford healthcare be able to once the system is "freer"? How will people who cannot afford healthcare now become able to once your proposals are embedded?

Oh, and what does drug development and laser-eye surgery have to do with anything, too? Stick to the point. Please: Explain how an entirely marketised healthcare system will work better than a socialised one on any level other than ideologically.
 
Remember guys, we are talking about America here. We aren't affraid to try something that hasn't been done before. There are frick'n doctors offices that'll give you a check up for $39.99 here at Walmart. We are progressing and we'll figure it out.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
No, can you think of one? I'm not sure if it's even ever really been tried before, has it?
Click to expand...

Of course it's been tried. The failure of such systems lead to the creation of systems like the NHS in the first place. What do you think happened in the UK before universal healthcare was set up?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Remember guys, we are talking about America here. We aren't affraid to try something that hasn't been done before. There are frick'n doctors offices that'll give you a check up for $39.99 here at Walmart. We are progressing and we'll figure it out.
Click to expand...

We have such private services at our supermarkets, our largest one was offering flu vaccination jabs for only £10 at the end of last year (my Dr charged £15 for the same service).
 
volatile said:
I'm not talking about immediately. I'm talking about in principle.

How would your "free-market" system be better? Give me details. How will those who cannot currently afford healthcare be able to once the system is "freer"? How will people who cannot afford healthcare now become able to once your proposals are embedded?

Oh, and what does drug development and laser-eye surgery have to do with anything, too? Stick to the point. Please: Explain how an entirely marketised healthcare system will work better than a socialised one on any level other than ideologically.
Click to expand...

Again, in the examples I posted they are showing doctors offices set up without going through insurance companies. The patients/doctor save time and money. They use laser eye surgery as an example of the progress that can be made in price reduction if there is competition.
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Remember guys, we are talking about America here. We aren't affraid to try something that hasn't been done before. There are frick'n doctors offices that'll give you a check up for $39.99 here at Walmart. We are progressing and we'll figure it out.
Click to expand...

And once that doctor has diagnosed you with diabetes? Or cancer? Or Lyme Diesease? Or lupus? What then? How much does Walmart charge for chemo?
 
DaN K. StAnLeY said:
Again, in the examples I posted they are showing doctors offices set up without going through insurance companies. The patients/doctor save time and money. They use laser eye surgery as an example of the progress that can be made in price reduction if there is competition.
Click to expand...

Can you not see the difference between an elective surgery like lasik and something like diabetes treatment? Seriously?

And as I said - so a check up cost forty bucks. How much do they charge to treat the things they find?
 
Darat said:
Yes - we had one in the UK prior to the founding of the NHS.
Click to expand...

And the founding of the NHS was a direct result of it not working.

Actually that's a bit simplistic as there were charity hospitals and the like pre-NHS and going back a bit further if you were in a workhouse (the last one ones only closed in 1930, my wife's grandmother was born in one) then you got rudimentary health care as part of the package so to speak. The establishment of the NHS was one of the raft of proposals that got Labour elected (to much surprise) in 1945.

Steve
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom