Sen. Feinstein's Big Mouth

[The Painter]

If you think this is weak Earl Grey, the lame Plame affair was an empty Lipton bag.

You got that right..

The stupidity in Congress is unrivaled. These are the same geniuses that are passing bills on the economy. We are all doomed.

 

[hgc]

Still not following the argument. If the standard Pakistani attitude toward the "We don't comply with US requests" government line is "Yah right", then how could this really be so damaging? If I knew this stuff, and I did, why would this surprise anyone living in Pakistan?

You knew already that U.S. drones attacking targets in Pakistan were taking off from within Pakistan? How? What was your source?

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I figured this was the case. Not claiming psychic powers, just a small amount of good guesswork. As in the OP.

 

[gdnp]

I figured this was the case. Not claiming psychic powers, just a small amount of good guesswork. As in the OP.

yeah...

Um, there is a big difference in international politics between "knew" and "suspected". "Suspected" leaves open something known as "plausible deniability". Pakistan can still claim to be outraged by the US attacks. Once it is "known" that these drones are taking off from Pakistani bases, however, plausible deniability goes out the window. Pakistan has no choice but to admit to its population their complicity with the US policy.

 

[WildCat]

In related news:

Two missiles fired from American drone aircraft killed more than 30 people, including Qaeda and Taliban fighters, near the Pakistani border with Afghanistan on Saturday, according to a Pakistani intelligence official and residents of the area.

...The drone attack also comes after a statement on Thursday by Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California and the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, that the aircraft take off from a base in Pakistan. “As I understand it, these are flown out of a Pakistani base,” Ms. Feinstein said during a hearing.

The drone attacks, especially in the last six months, have increased anti-American sentiment in Pakistan to very high levels, and Ms. Feinstein’s statement is likely to further inflame the protests over them. Her statement was prominently covered by the Pakistani press on Saturday.

Although many Pakistanis have accused their government of giving quiet approval for the United States to strike in the tribal areas, they also assumed that the strikes came from Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/world/asia/15pstan.html?ref=asia

Won't take long to see how her comments affect the political climate there methinks.

 

[Roadtoad]

Regardless of who knew or how many knew, Feinstein should have kept her mouth shut.

That she doesn't demonstrates a complete lack of respect for OPSEC, as well as for the men and women in service.

 

[dudalb]

The way in which important Commitee seats in congress are often filled by people who have no freaking idea about the subject at hand is disgusting.
Rumor is that after he leaves the Governorship, Ahnuld is going to run for the senate. I will probably vote for him just on the grounds it's time for a change.

 

[peptoabysmal]

The trouble is, I'm not convinced that Feinstein knew what she was talking about in the first place. She could be the best disinformation system ever.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

yeah...

Um, there is a big difference in international politics between "knew" and "suspected". "Suspected" leaves open something known as "plausible deniability". Pakistan can still claim to be outraged by the US attacks. Once it is "known" that these drones are taking off from Pakistani bases, however, plausible deniability goes out the window. Pakistan has no choice but to admit to its population their complicity with the US policy.

Wow, really? "Plausible deniability" *tries saying hard words* Thanks so much for explaining that to me. Another shocker. Again, I am among many who are not new to this concept, as are the Pakistani people. I'm certain the government of Pakistan still can admit nothing and their credibility with those who think they're full of crap is unharmed.

 

[JihadJane]

How shocking to see a politician being honest about secret US violence overseas.

Like Magnifico2.0, I have long assumed that there were US military bases in Pakistan. The ISI works closely with the CIA.

 

[geni]

Won't take long to see how her comments affect the political climate there methinks.

Compared to what else has gone on in the last couple of days not much. The timing is almost suspicious. The goverment of Pakistan has aparently decided to face up to at least some of the issues it faces. First starting to admit Pakistan involvement with the bombay bombings and then:

Pakistan's president says his country is fighting for its survival against the Taleban, whose influence he said has spread deep into the country.

In an interview with US TV channel CBS, President Asif Zardari said the Taleban had established a presence across "huge parts" of Pakistan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7890985.stm

More importantly we are starting to see hints that the ISI is going to back the goverment:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009\02\14\story_14-2-2009_pg1_8

 

[geni]

The ISI works closely with the CIA.

It's posible that bits of it do but for the most part very unlikely. The ISI regards the boarder regions as it's turf and is hardly going to by happy about anyone else being there.

 

[JihadJane]

It's posible that bits of it do but for the most part very unlikely. The ISI regards the boarder regions as it's turf and is hardly going to by happy about anyone else being there.

The ISI and the CIA have had a long and intimate relationship.

During the 1980s, many "officers from the ISI's Covert Action Division received training in the US and many covert action experts of the CIA were attached to the ISI to guide it in its operations against the Soviet troops by using the Afghan Mujahideen, Islamic fundamentalists of Pakistan and Arab volunteers." Further, the "CIA, through the ISI, promoted the smuggling of heroin into Afghanistan in order to make the Soviet troops heroin addicts Once the Soviet troops were withdrawn in 1988, these heroin smugglers started smuggling the drugs to the West, with the complicity of the ISI."

"During the Nixon Administration in the US, when Dr.Henry Kissinger was the National Security Adviser, the intelligence community of the US and the ISI worked in tandem in guiding and assisting the so-called Khalistan movement in the Punjab. The visits of prominent Sikh Home Rule personalities to the US before the Bangladesh Liberation War in December, 1971, to counter Indian allegations of violations of the human rights of the Bengalis of East Pakistan through counter-allegations of violations of the human rights of the Sikhs in Punjab were jointly orchestrated by the ISI, the US intelligence and some officials of the US National Security Council (NSC) Secretariat, then headed by Dr.Kissinger."

And much, much more:


'Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence'

http://www.acsa.net/isi/index.html

 

[geni]

The ISI and the CIA have had a long and intimate relationship.

Long no (the ISI was only formed in 1948) intimate no. Just because they have worked together in some areas in the past doesn't mean they trust each other a milimeter or the ISI would object to the CIA interfearing with it's objectives.

 

[JihadJane]

Long no (the ISI was only formed in 1948) intimate no. Just because they have worked together in some areas in the past doesn't mean they trust each other a milimeter or the ISI would object to the CIA interfearing with it's objectives.

To my mind, 1948-2009 is a long time for an intimate relationship!

How do the objectives of the CIA and the ISI differ?

 

[geni]

To my mind, 1948-2009 is a long time for an intimate relationship!

The Anglo-Portuguese Alliance has been in existance since 1373

How do the objectives of the CIA and the ISI differ?

ISI has supported the taliban. The CIA were largely dissinterested in Afganistan at that point but have generly prefered the northern alliance.

Fairly dirrectly conflict over the Kahuta Research Laboratories (CIA trying to find out what was going on the ISI trying to prevent them).

A significant number of the ISI's activties with regeards to india would probably be opposed by the CIA (Kashmir in particular).

The objectives of the CIA are ultimately the objectives of the US goverment. The objectives of the ISI are the objectives of the ISI.

 

[PitPat]

"As I understand it, these are flown out of a Pakistani base," she said.

<snip>

Philip J. LaVelle, a spokesman for Feinstein, said her comment was based solely on previous news reports that Predators were operated from bases near Islamabad.

Holy Moses. Which is less embarrassing: admitting you let a secret slip out in open session, or admitting you (as chair of the Intelligence Committee) are getting your intelligence information from the newspaper. Maybe admitting the slip could land her in legal hot water?

 

[geni]

Holy Moses. Which is less embarrassing: admitting you let a secret slip out in open session, or admitting you (as chair of the Intelligence Committee) are getting your intelligence information from the newspaper.

Why? The CIA admits it is. Given that these are the same news mechanisms the CIA admits to rigging the results should be interesting.

 

[Ziggurat]

Wow, really? "Plausible deniability" *tries saying hard words* Thanks so much for explaining that to me. Another shocker. Again, I am among many who are not new to this concept, as are the Pakistani people. I'm certain the government of Pakistan still can admit nothing and their credibility with those who think they're full of crap is unharmed.

Look, the problem is more than just whether or not the Pakistani people now know something they didn't before. The bigger problem is that the Pakistani government now DOES know something it didn't know before: our government cannot be trusted to keep its pie-hole shut. Whether or not the Pakistani people knew or suspected that such cooperation was ongoing, it's clear that the Pakistani government wanted it kept secret. Now it is not. What other cooperation might they be considering offering, contingent upon it being kept secret as well? What might they now refuse to do that they would have considered doing before because they can't trust us anymore? We can't know that, but it might be significant. And this leak was ENTIRELY unnecessary. There is simply no need for Feinstein to have said anything, and no excuse for her having spilled the beans. And her opening her mouth DID do us harm: it broadcast loud and clear that we cannot keep secrets for our allies.

 

[SRW]

I hope that Feinstein runs for governor so that California can send someone with a little sense to fill that seat.

.

And just what did we ever do to you? Sure I voted for her the first time she ran...nevermind