Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

[twinstead]

I wonder if a fireman yelled at Chris when he was a small child. There are some pretty deep-seated issues here. Yea. The only think keeping all those fireman from coming forward and spilling the beans is that they're afraid of public ridicule.

Frankly, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

 

[Christopher7]

A witness to the crane accident said, "It was like two bombs going off. It was like two explosions." ( tinyurl.com3yvk3b )

There were similar descriptions of a crane failure in New York City last year. Heavy steel fails and makes loud noises. How shocking. How difficult to comprehend.

This is your standard response to the clap of thunder. It ignores the fact that a progressive collapse is a continuous chain of events and not a single column snapping with a loud bang.
Column 79 collapsed 6 seconds before the global collapse started. What Daryl heard was about 2 seconds before the global collapse.

ETA: NIST defines global collapse as when the north face [and the rest of the building] started to fall.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Sure, time is a factor as dependent on the heat transfer properties of the steel. The relationship on the yield strength is determined by the temperature. If your case being made is that the structural steel could not have reached the temperatures required for substantial weakening, then by all means demonstrate your contention and floor me. You can find the relevant mathematical formulas for doing so in the AISC Specification for Structural Steel Buildings 2005 edition on page 467 of the PDF.

Then by all means prove your superior understanding in steel specifications by demonstrating to your audience the validity of your contention. You have everything you need in the link provided. Now get to it.

.
We are supposed to bother with mathematics when the NIST can't even tell everyone the quantity of steel on each level in the impact zone even though they took 3 years and $20,000,000 and produced 10,000 pages.

10,000 pages and can't even specify the total amount of concrete. ROFL

psik

 

[twinstead]

Why on Earth would they even bother to specify the total amount of concrete or steel? Because YOU expect them to?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

.
We are supposed to bother with mathematics when the NIST can't even tell everyone the quantity of steel on each level in the impact zone even though they took 3 years and $20,000,000 and produced 10,000 pages.

10,000 pages and can't even specify the total amount of concrete. ROFL

psik

And the significance of this is? (Please dazzle me)

 

[Grizzly Bear]

This is your standard response to the clap of thunder. It ignores the fact that a progressive collapse is a continuous chain of events and not a single column snapping with a loud bang.

A progressive collapse occurs when a primary structural member fails, resulting in the failure of adjoining structural members, and effectively causes further failure in the system. The damage that results is disproportionate to the cause. Your latter claim that a progressive collapse does not involve "a single column snapping with a loud bang" is a rather bold assumption. Are you seriously implying that failing connections or structural failure will be silent?

Column 79 collapsed 6 seconds before the global collapse started. What Daryl heard was about 2 seconds before the global collapse.

What the hell kind of crap are you pulling out of your hiney now? The initiating structural failures started 8 seconds prior to the onset of global collapse and continued until global collapse onset... Oh I'm sorry that's right, I forgot, you think the only things that can make loud sounds are explosives. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Christopher7]

A progressive collapse occurs when a primary structural member fails, resulting in the failure of adjoining structural members, and effectively causes further failure in the system. The damage that results is disproportionate to the cause. Your latter claim that a progressive collapse does not involve "a single column snapping with a loud bang" is a rather bold assumption. Are you seriously implying that failing connections or structural failure will be silent?

Stupid assumption and question.

I am saying that each connection failure whether a girder support or column splice will produce a sound. A progressive collapse is hundreds of connections failing in rapid succession and therefore a continuous roar, not a clap of thunder.

 

[TheRedWorm]

So, Chris, what do you think caused "hundreds of connections failing in rapid succession"?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Stupid assumption and question.

I am saying that each connection failure whether a girder support of column splice will produce a sound. A progressive collapse is hundreds of connections failing in rapid succession and therefore a continuous roar, not a clap of thunder.

What about collapse initiation? Would the same apply?

 

[Christopher7]

What about collapse initiation? Would the same apply?

NIST refers to the failure of column 79 as the collapse initiation. NIST says that when column 79 lost lateral support it buckled [broke at 3 splice joints], followed quickly by columns 80 and 81. Then column 76 buckled [4.8 seconds after column 79]. Over the next 2.3 seconds, the collapse progressed across the core. The first movement of the north face occurred .2 seconds later and global collapse started 1.75 seconds after that. [9.35 seconds after the failure of column 79] {see NCSTAR 1A pg 43}

Daryl heard a clap of thunder and a second later the bottom floors busted out and the building followed after that. Allowing a second for the sound to get to him, the explosion occurred about 2 to 3 seconds before the global collapse began.

If columns were buckling [breaking at 3 splice joints] in rapid succession over a period of 7.4 seconds, there would not be a clap of thunder during the last stage of the horizontal collapse.

Gravy ignores the fact that a progressive collapse is a rapid series of failures and would not result in a single loud bang as he proposes.

 

[Bell]

Christopher7, since you think you have evidence of an inside job, what are you going to do with your evidence?

 

[Baylor]

Gravy ignores the fact that a progressive collapse is a rapid series of failures and would not result in a single loud bang as he proposes.

Hey genius. A controlled demolition IS a progressive collapse.

The implosion contractor creates a progressive collapse by releasing this energy through the sequential explosive removal of key structural supports, allowing gravity to do the remaining work, simultaneously using the minimum amount of explosives, creating the maximum amount of fragmentation, and minimizing the potential fly of debris.

Progressive collapse : An implosion contractor's stock in trade
Author(s)
LOIZEAUX Mark (1) ; OSBORN Andrew E. N. (2) ;

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18285854

 

[buka001]

Heiwa are you going to address your statement that if something falls onto something else it won't damage it? Going to provide proof or examples to such claims?

Prove, that if a car crashes into a wall at 100km/h, it and the wall will be damage free. I wonder why people die in car accidents, surely according to you that is impossible? Care to elaborate on this?

Christopher7, you have neatly changed the topic, without addressing your claims about the 4 cranes or your claim that a 4ton section cannot be ejected laterally by gravitational forces alone. You said this cannot happen. Do you have any way to prove this cannot happen, apart from personal incredulity? Just because your limited understanding of physics and structures prevents you from understanding that this is indeed possible, it does not make it so. You need to provide calculations that prove otherwise. You did do the calculations I assume? Otherwise your claim is a lie.

Please address these statements.

 

[Christopher7]

Gravy ignores the fact that a progressive collapse is a rapid series of failures and would not result in a single loud bang as he proposes.

Hey genius. A controlled demolition IS a progressive collapse.

The progressive collapse NIST proposes would not produce a clap of thunder because the columns failed over a period of 7-8 seconds.

Gravy's comparing a progressive collapse to the sound of a crane snapping was wrong.

 

[Bananaman]

CrazyChris:

Gravy's comparing a progressive collapse to the sound of a crane snapping was wrong.

Aargh, just aaaaargh. What's wrong with you? Has your medication run out?

JESUS CHRIST!

Bananaman.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

The progressive collapse NIST proposes would not produce a clap of thunder because the columns failed over a period of 7-8 seconds.

Gravy's comparing a progressive collapse to the sound of a crane snapping was wrong.

The crane collapse was never intended to serve as direct comparison to a collapsing building, it was intended to illustrate a principal you appear incapable of understanding. When connections begin to fail they will make loud noises, the crane video was used to illustrate your simile deficient vocabulary, and illustrate that people use similes when they describe events.

If we went by a literal interpretation of your logic the failure of the cranes' supporting elements sounding like an explosion would mean that the crane had pre-planted explosives. You are again, demonstrating your confirmation bias. The apparent standard you set for the sounds a progressive collapse is supposed to make is your own claim, and your own set of goalposts. The witness's description can be explained by the collapse initiation as the first primary structural elements began to fail. The global failure wasn't immediate; it took several seconds for the failure that caused the penthouse to collapse to cause the failure of the exterior. It's not at all surprising that the witness saw the structure coming apart after the initial failures began to intiate a domino effect.


ETA: Since we're on the subject of WTC 7 if we're going to continue this is there any chance we can move our current issues to your other thread? Unless you would like to incorporate AE911truth into the discussion I would really hate derailing this thread any further...

 

[psikeyhackr]

And the significance of this is? (Please dazzle me)

.
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=53965

Some people are too dim to be dazzled.

psik

 

[nicepants]

Willful ignorance...

Gravy's comparing a progressive collapse to the sound of a crane snapping was wrong.

*facepalm*

Why is it that truthers never get comparisons right?

If someone said "Compare the color of this cube to the color of this sphere"

a truther would say

"The shapes are totally different! You can't compare them!"

 

[twinstead]

.
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=53965
Some people are too dim to be dazzled.

And, some people are too dim TO dazzle.

 

[Porkpie Hat]

A witness to the crane accident said, "It was like two bombs going off. It was like two explosions." ( tinyurl.com3yvk3b )

There were similar descriptions of a crane failure in New York City last year. Heavy steel fails and makes loud noises. How shocking. How difficult to comprehend.

This is purely anecdotal but I’ll say it anyway.

Back in my 20’s I worked for a fabricator in Calgary that specialized in industrial compressors used for pumping natural gas down pipelines. Work was slowing down and the company had laid off some workers who just didn’t cut the mustard. One guy in particular was a nutbar with a gun fetish that no could get alone with.

Layoffs were on a Thursday and the rest of us had to work the weekend in order to complete some units that were shipping the following week. Saturday morning 2 units weighing around 8 tons apiece were being moved out of the building and loaded on trucks for the journey up north.

At around 9:30am I heard a very loud booming noise, 2-3 seconds later I heard it again. My first thought was it sounded just like a 12 gauge shotgun (I grew up around guns so know that sound well). Nutbar gun fetish guy is back and going postal!!!!! I dove behind a large tank we had in the back of our shop and waited for a few seconds (nutbar gun fetish guy and I did not get along) until everything went silent. As I came out from my hiding spot I saw that people were running towards the unit being loaded out. The unit was held aloft at one end by 2 chains with 1/2” links and the other end was on the ground with 2 more chains swaying violently around.

The sound I heard was the links of a chain snapping. Not a shotgun but metal strained to its limit and finally succumbing to a force exceeding its ability to do its job. The strange thing is that I have no memory of hearing the skid hitting the ground. Thunderous booms at the WTC complex before collapse may be impressive with regards to the amount of energy required but are definitely not surprising.

Colour me unimpressed Chris.

BTW Christopher7, your reliance on A&E for 9/11 Truth for scientific data is beyond ridiculous. Every argument you’ve made has been thoroughly destroyed dude. These agenda driven parasites prey on the likes of you knowing full well you would never hold them to the same standard of accountability that you hold NIST to. There is no science at A&E 9/11 Truth, it’s not even good pseudoscience.

You remind me of my neighbours 9 year old who came running by my house last year yelling something about bigfoot being in the field behind my house. We live in a rural area and it’s not all that surprising to see the odd bear roaming by. When I told him it was most likely a black bear out for a stroll he looked up at me with utter confidence and said, “No it’s bigfoot! Ask Colton, he saw it too and he’s 12!!!”.

This seems to be all that’s left of your argument Chris, ask Richard Gage he’s 12!!