a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Is Israel building settlements in Egypt? Does it control Egypt's borders?
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Gaza villages Wiped off the map
- Thread starter Tin Foil Timothy
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Is Israel building settlements in Egypt? Does it control Egypt's borders?
News flash. Israel isn't building settlements in Gaza, either.
And Israel only controls Gaza's border with Israel. Do you find that objectionable?
Israel doesn't control Gaza's border with Egypt, because if they did, there wouldn't be tunnels going under the Egypt-Gaza border for Hamas to smuggle weapons through. Unfortunately, it appears Egypt doesn't control Gaza's border with Egypt either.
I'm unaware of any other countries Gaza shares a border with that Israel can supposedly control.
So please tell me what your beef is with Israel here.
webfusion
Philosopher
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nitpick
When Israel did control that corridor (nicknamed the Philadelphi Road, in the Rafiah zone) there were countless IDF efforts to stop the smuggling tunneling.
In fact, you can go back to the Rachel Corrie incident which happened in the context of the IDF trying to prevent tunneling (March 16, 2003).
Even after the October 2003 major combat operations, or Operation Rainbow in May 2004, the smuggling tunnels did not cease to function.
http://www.monabaker.com/pMachine/more.php?id=A1267_0_1_0_M
So, BPSCG, in this instance, I must respectfully disagree with your statement.
When Israel did control that corridor (nicknamed the Philadelphi Road, in the Rafiah zone) there were countless IDF efforts to stop the smuggling tunneling.
In fact, you can go back to the Rachel Corrie incident which happened in the context of the IDF trying to prevent tunneling (March 16, 2003).
Even after the October 2003 major combat operations, or Operation Rainbow in May 2004, the smuggling tunnels did not cease to function.
http://www.monabaker.com/pMachine/more.php?id=A1267_0_1_0_M
So, BPSCG, in this instance, I must respectfully disagree with your statement.
I think the comparison between the starving Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto, and the Palestinians and Hamas in Gaza..is a pretty pathetic one.
The Palestinians have a billion people...very very wealthy people..on their side. The Jews were surrounded by a few hundred million people who were happy to see them dead.
If the Jews failed in their rebellion (which they did) every single one of them faced certain death. And they did ALL die.
If the Palestininians failed in their war against Israel, they faced a life without Hamas, and the possibility of an independent state.
Oliver, you are smarter then this.
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[Ragtime]
Rheinlander Waldo: [refering to the anarchists in the library] Well, Mr. Elliot, why don't you go in and have a word with them?
Vernon Elliott: I beg your pardon?
Rheinlander Waldo: Just explain the value of the library, see what they want, that sort of thing.
Vernon Elliott: That hardly seems like the appropriate response, Mr. Waldo, and if you're making a joke at my expense, I assure you there's nothing amusing about my responsibilities as the curator of Mr. Morgan's library.
Rheinlander Waldo: Mr. Elliot, as long as those guys are in there, you're not curator of anything!
[/Ragtime]
As long as people can tunnel under a border at will, then ipso facto, nobody controls that border.
So the aid can not come through Egypt? Does "They" mean Israel? I did not know Israel was powerful enough to stop aid from going through Egypt or that Egypt was so weak. Is that what you are implying?
Ranb
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
West Bank and Gaza are part of the one thing, like states in the USA. The settlements in West Bank have grown by far more than the land returned in Gaza. Would you imagine if the people in California had their land taken, the residents of Ohio wouldn't care? Hmm, maybe that's a bad example, but you get the idea.
Oliver
Penultimate Amazing
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Actually, these villages were not Wiped off the Map, they were simply "removed from the pages of history".
They didn't vanish from the pages of history yet as long this thread exists.
Really? You mean they're one country?
Who is their head of state?
Where is their capital?
Where does their government assemble to pass laws?
Do the people who run Gaza recognize the people who run the West Bank as legitimate, and vice versa?
Last I heard, blockading the coast of a country that has declared war on you is a perfectly legitimate tactic. If I am mistaken, please direct me to the appropriate international articles regarding warfare that say so.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
That argument is so ridiculous it doesn't deserve an answer. You are smart enough to know why.I'm sorry, but you were the one claiming that Gaza/West Bank are like California/Ohio. In what sense?
What you say may be true, leaving aside whether Gaza and/or the occupied territories are a country, whether Hamas is the government, whether the government has declared war, and whether Israel's blockade meets the internationally accepted standards for how blockades and sieges can be used against civilian populations.
However, let us go back to your original statement, to which I was responding:
So which do you believe: that Israel only controls Gaza's border with Israel, that Israel controls all of Gaza's borders except the border with Egypt, or that Israel's blockade of everything not smuggled in and out of Gaza does not constitute "control of borders?"
ETA: It seems to me you are arguing "Israel doesn't control Gaza's borders. They just control everything and everyone that goes in or out across them".
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I stated earlier that:
Do you believe that statement is true or do you believe it is false?
If you believe Israel does not control Gaza's border with Egypt, then your claim that Israel "control(s) everything and everyone that goes in or out across" Gaza's borders is logically false.
If you believe Israel does control Gaza's border with Egypt then how does Israel accomplish this feat? Are there Israel soldiers in Egypt patrolling the border? Or are there Israeli soldiers in Gaza patrolling it?
If Gaza can't get anything across the Egyptian border without smuggling, who is stopping them?
Merko
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Oh, but why are the Israelis complaining then? If only they made peace with Hamas, they wouldn't have to worry about those rockets anymore!
Hey, you should be awarded with the Nobel Peace Price for this amazing discovery!
Merko
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Not really. They noticed that when Hezbollah set the exact same trap for Israel only 2,5 years ago, the Israelis bought it hook, line and sinker. So now they did the same thing, and Israel proved to have learned absolutely nothing from their recent history.
It was audacious when Hezbollah did it, not this time around.
Merko
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That's probably because Israel doesn't want to control any Egyptian land, and doesn't really have any deeper historical quarrels with the Egyptians (except perhaps for the fictional Egyptian enslaving of the Jews as depicted in the bible). It gets a little bit more difficult when one party (Hamas) doesn't even acknowledge the other partys right to any land even in principle (that itself being a subject of negotiations), and the other party acknowledges that right in principle, but isn't willing to abide by any actual real division of land.