Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

[Bell]

I guess not only the moron Gage but also C7, do not recognise sarcasm.

I've never seen a truther who did.

As with similies.

Christopher7, learnt about those allready?

 

[dtugg]

That just means that they were unable to model to collapses all the way down. It would have taken way too much work and computing power. They explanation they gave is just fine. Once the collapses started, there is no way in hell they could have been stopped. Skyscrapers aren't designed to withstand millions of pounds crashing down upon them. Do you even know what the explanation for collapse initiation is? Can you refute it (hint: no you can't).

 

[Heiwa]

That just means that they were unable to model to collapses all the way down. It would have taken way too much work and computing power. They explanation they gave is just fine. Once the collapses started, there is no way in hell they could have been stopped. Skyscrapers aren't designed to withstand millions of pounds crashing down upon them. Do you even know what the explanation for collapse initiation is? Can you refute it (hint: no you can't).

But Bazant did it - calculation of initiation + crush down - on the back on an envelope and got it published two days after 911, i.e. 913! Pretty good. But Bazant got it wrong! Skyscrapers and similar steel structures are pretty strong. Drop the top part - floor 98 and up - of WTC1 on floor 97 and the result will be a fair amount of damages to floors 97 and 98 and probably also floors 96 and 99. But that's it. Just local damages. Easy to show with real structural damage analysis. Pity that NIST didn't do it but relied on Bazant.

 

[beachnut]

There was a dolt at a forum that said UBL was innocent on 911. He was too stupid, too challenged to understand the FBI says he is a suspect on 911.

Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

Yep, he is wanted for a few terrorist acts. Wanted.
I bet he is considered a suspect on 911.
Bet he is a suspect instead of WANTED because his guys are dead! 19 dead terrorists can't talk! The other terrorist acts he is wanted on left a trail of alive guys who got caught.
See how neat it is, if you kill your guys who can tell on you, you are just a suspect.
But when you blow up stuff and leave alive guys who helped you do it and those live guys tell on you, you are WANTED!
So 911 was the best scam UBL could run, kill all the primaries and not one of them can tell on you. Great idea. Atta, what do we do tomorrow? Atta, say we do it again! The terrorists are as dumb as 911Truth who apologizes for the terrorists.
Bet UBL edited any stuff linking him to 911 out of the video wills!
UBL isn’t dumb, he was coy at first then said he helped after he knew he was safe! If we catch UBL, he will take credit big time; unlike 911Truth UBL steps up and takes credit, not like no theory Balsamo, or nut case Gage, and thermite brain Jones.

Sad, UBL will tell the truth, 911Truth tells the lies.

Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

Does the world include NYC?

 

[dtugg]

But Bazant did it - calculation of initiation + crush down - on the back on an envelope and got it published two days after 911, i.e. 913! Pretty good. But Bazant got it wrong! Skyscrapers and similar steel structures are pretty strong. Drop the top part - floor 98 and up - of WTC1 on floor 97 and the result will be a fair amount of damages to floors 97 and 98 and probably also floors 96 and 99. But that's it. Just local damages. Easy to show with real structural damage analysis. Pity that NIST didn't do it but relied on Bazant.

Heiwa, after your pizza box, table, car, matchbox, kids jumping on beds, bathroom scale, and sponge fiascoes, nobody believes a word that you say. You have zero credibility. Actually, you have less than zero. Whenever you say something, I automatically assume the opposite is true.

 

[beachnut]

But Bazant did it - calculation of initiation + crush down - on the back on an envelope and got it published two days after 911, i.e. 913! Pretty good. But Bazant got it wrong! Skyscrapers and similar steel structures are pretty strong. Drop the top part - floor 98 and up - of WTC1 on floor 97 and the result will be a fair amount of damages to floors 97 and 98 and probably also floors 96 and 99. But that's it. Just local damages. Easy to show with real structural damage analysis. Pity that NIST didn't do it but relied on Bazant.

Bazant did in minutes what you and Gage can't get right in 7 years.

This thread is about Gage's group of failed engineers and architects, not a Heiwa stupid idea thread.

Funny, you bring up time! Passengers on Flight 93 figured out 911 in their heads (no paper) in minutes and took action and stopped the terrorists you apologies for with failed engineering, by ignoring gravity, and ignoring structural engineering factors. You have had 7 years and you messed up all of 911! Minutes for Heroes on Flight 93, they were correct, and 7 years for zeros like Gage and you also got all of 911 wrong. Americans beat you 7 years ago in understanding 911, and you have had 7 years and failed.

Wait; are you in Gage's group of failed engineers? Has Gage endorsed your delusions on 911? Does he agree with your no plane theory? I saw he likes your cardboard box stuff! lol

 

[Bell]

I have a better idea. Our MSM could tell the American people that the FBI has not charged Bin Laden with 9/11 because there is no hard evidence connecting him to 9/11.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7577/oblwantedpostereditedzq5.jpg


The FBI has NOT charged Osama Bin Laden with 9/11 because there is NO hard evidence connecting him to 9/11. http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

The hijackers left NO paper trail, no mention of any aspect of the 9/11 plot.
Paragraph 14 http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm

Oh my, KSM plotted the 9/11 attacks and Osama gave him his blessings. Guess the truthers keep forgetting this. Just because there is no HARD evidence to link Osama to 9/11, doesn't mean he is innocent. And just because he is NOT wanted for 9/11 doesn't mean he is not wanted at all or that the FBI is not investigating his role any further.

And like dtugg asked, when are you going to demand KSM to be set free? Since you have incriminating evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, it would be unethical for you to let him get charged and possibly face the death penalty. You don't want his death on your concience, do you?

 

[Christopher7]

There was a dolt at a forum that said UBL was innocent on 911. He was too stupid, too challenged to understand the FBI says he is a suspect on 911.
Yep, he is wanted for a few terrorist acts. Wanted.
I bet he is considered a suspect on 911.
Bet he is a suspect instead of WANTED because his guys are dead! 19 dead terrorists can't talk! The other terrorist acts he is wanted on left a trail of alive guys who got caught.
See how neat it is, if you kill your guys who can tell on you, you are just a suspect.
But when you blow up stuff and leave alive guys who helped you do it and those live guys tell on you, you are WANTED!
So 911 was the best scam UBL could run, kill all the primaries and not one of them can tell on you. Great idea. Atta, what do we do tomorrow? Atta, say we do it again! The terrorists are as dumb as 911Truth who apologizes for the terrorists.
Bet UBL edited any stuff linking him to 911 out of the video wills!
UBL isn’t dumb, he was coy at first then said he helped after he knew he was safe! If we catch UBL, he will take credit big time;

Have you come to grips with the fact that you believe a "Conspiracy Theory" ?

 

[Christopher7]

Oh my, KSM plotted the 9/11 attacks and Osama gave him his blessings.

Is there reliable or hard evidence of this?

Just because there is no HARD evidence to link Osama to 9/11, doesn't mean he is innocent. And just because he is NOT wanted for 9/11 doesn't mean he is not wanted at all or that the FBI is not investigating his role any further.

Correct, it just means that you believe a "Conspiracy Theory"

 

[funk de fino]

No they have not! You didn't read the statement right or follow the link to the document.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology [NIST] did NOT explain the collapse of the Trade Towers. They stopped at collapse initiation.
Pg 3 "NIST carried its analysis to the point where the buildings reached global instability."
Pg 4 "As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation- of the total collapse."
http://ocio.os.doc.gov/s/groups/publ...d01_004108.pdf

I am going to give you one more chance to redeem yourself here. What is the date of that doc and what is the important word in the statement?

I'll give you a clue. Its "provide"

I am telling you right here that NIST have supplied an explanation for collapse propogation after initiation. Perhaps you are not as smart and clued up as you think you are or you would have known this. Stop posting junk from other sites. It makes you look very silly.

 

[dtugg]

Is there reliable or hard evidence of this?

Yes. Your failure to know this is nobody's problem but your own.

Contact his lawyer with your "evidence" that it was an inside job or you are a moral coward.

 

[Bell]

Is there reliable or hard evidence of this?

In your case, considering the truthers paranoia against the US governemnt or anything in line with the real events of 9/11, I'd say no. In the real world, yes.

Correct, it just means that you believe a "Conspiracy Theory"

 

[beachnut]

Does Gage have this stupid idea on his web site?

The hijackers left no paper trail of the plot for 911.

I saw this stupid statement at another web site. Some idiot was spewing some statement and trying to connect it to some deranged conspiracy theory.

The hijackers left no paper trail of the plot for 911.

Wow, the hijackers did not have to write down the complicated plot for 911!

Terrorist plots, can you see the paper trail of the 911 plot.

Terror plot step 1 – kill pilots
Terror plot step 2 – fly plane into building

As you can see, it was a complicated plot. This plot was for dummies! Yes,

Back to the plot; So we have dumb gullible terrorist recruits, kind of like 911Truth believers ( 911Truth scramble to apologize for their fellow dolts, the terrorist dolts who killed Americans)

Back to the real dumb guys! So UBL had to give these guys a simple mission, and he found they were incapable of memorizing more than two steps (like 911Truth is incapable of finding evidence, any evidence), so the terrorist two-step was born. Kill pilots, fly plane into building.

UBL had his cretins repeat the line, “kill pilots, fly plane into building”, until they had the complicated plan memorized. After 7 years, they was ready to go (lol, just like 911Truth but 911truth failed like the terrorist on Flight 93)! All that was left was training how to kill, and what buildings to hit. Gee, they only picked the biggest ones they could find; they must of seen Hani fly!

No wonder there was no paper trail of the plot, it was too simple to write down. I doubt Cain left a stone tablet trail of the one step, kill brother, Abel.

Why do the dolts at 911Truth think no paper trail of the plot is significant??? Do you really need to know!?

Because the plot 911Truth thinks happened is bigger and more complicated than the SIOP for nuclear war against the USSR was! My goodness, we need how to plant RDX, Thermite, radio fuses, radio repeaters for the explosives or thermite, holograph planes, NORAD stand down, USAF stand down, FAA fake RADAR tapes from multiple RADAR stations, FAA fake radio transmissions heard by other planes, FAKE video, remote control planes, fake lampposts, thousands of fake witnesses, thousand of fake new reports, killing passengers, spreading dead passenger DNA at NYC, Pentagon, and PA; seeding aircraft parts at PA, Pentagon, WTC times two; ... tons more ... The plot takes volumes and involves thousand of people.

Why does 911Truth think no paper trail lets the terrorist off the hook or some other delusion conclusion? Do 911Truth members have a paper trail for their plots, like going potty, or making up delusions?

This delusion is busted, because the real 911 plot was too simple to waste paper on.

 

[Christopher7]

I am telling you right here that NIST have supplied an explanation for collapse propogation after initiation.

Source?

They admitted to Jones, Ryan and Gage on 9-27-07 that they did not demonstrate how the towers collapsed because the dog ate their computer. [or something like that]

"NIST carried its analysis to the point where the buildings reached global instability. At this point, because of the magnitude of deflections and the numbers of failures occurring, the computer models are not able to converge on a solution."
"As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation- of the total collapse."

 

[beachnut]

They admitted to Jones, Ryan and Gage on 9-27-07 that they did not demonstrate how the towers collapsed because the dog ate their computer. [or something like that]

"NIST carried its analysis to the point where the buildings reached global instability. At this point, because of the magnitude of deflections and the numbers of failures occurring, the computer models are not able to converge on a solution."
"As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation- of the total collapse."

source

 

[funk de fino]

Source?

They admitted to Jones, Ryan and Gage on 9-27-07 that they did not demonstrate how the towers collapsed because the dog ate their computer. [or something like that]

"NIST carried its analysis to the point where the buildings reached global instability. At this point, because of the magnitude of deflections and the numbers of failures occurring, the computer models are not able to converge on a solution."
"As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation- of the total collapse."

I gave you the chance. Everyone who has an interest in the truth should know about the December FAQs. You do not, because you have just copied junk from Gage and his jerk off liars. NIST have given an explanation for the collapse progression in these FAQ's becuase of charlatans like Gage. Why didnt you know this?

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_12_2007.htm

1. Was there enough gravitational energy present in the World Trade Center Towers to cause the collapse of the intact floors below the impact floors? Why was the collapse of WTC 1 and 2 not arrested by the intact structure below the floors where columns first began to buckle?

Yes, there was more than enough gravitational load to cause the collapse of the floors below the level of collapse initiation in both WTC Towers. The vertical capacity of the connections supporting an intact floor below the level of collapse was adequate to carry the load of 11 additional floors if the load was applied gradually and 6 additional floors if the load was applied suddenly (as was the case). Since the number of floors above the approximate floor of collapse initiation exceeded six in each WTC Tower (12 and 29 floors, respectively), the floors below the level of collapse initiation were unable to resist the suddenly applied gravitational load from the upper floors of the buildings. Details of this finding are provided below:

Consider a typical floor immediately below the level of collapse initiation and conservatively assume that the floor is still supported on all columns (i.e., the columns below the intact floor did not buckle or peel-off due to the failure of the columns above). Consider further the truss seat connections between the primary floor trusses and the exterior wall columns or core columns. The individual connection capacities ranged from 94,000 lb to 395,000 lb, with a total vertical load capacity for the connections on a typical floor of 29,000,000 lb (See Section 5.2.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1-6C). The total floor area outside the core was approximately 31,000 ft2, and the average load on a floor under service conditions on September 11, 2001 was 80 lb/ft2. Thus, the total vertical load on a floor outside the core can be estimated by multiplying the floor area (31,000 ft2) by the gravitational load (80 lb/ft2), which yields 2,500,000 lb (this is a conservative load estimate since it ignores the weight contribution of the heavier mechanical floors at the top of each WTC Tower). By dividing the total vertical connection capacity (29,000,000 lb) of a floor by the total vertical load applied to the connections (2,500,000 lb), the number of floors that can be supported by an intact floor is calculated to be a total of 12 floors or 11 additional floors.

This simplified and conservative analysis indicates that the floor connections could have carried only a maximum of about 11 additional floors if the load from these floors were applied statically. Even this number is (conservatively) high, since the load from above the collapsing floor is being applied suddenly. Since the dynamic amplification factor for a suddenly applied load is 2, an intact floor below the level of collapse initiation could not have supported more than six floors. Since the number of floors above the level where the collapse initiated, exceeded 6 for both towers (12 for WTC 1 and 29 for WTC 2), neither tower could have arrested the progression of collapse once collapse initiated. In reality, the highest intact floor was about three (WTC 2) to six (WTC 1) floors below the level of collapse initiation. Thus, more than the 12 to 29 floors reported above actually loaded the intact floor suddenly.

Now, is that an explanation? Please retract your incorrect claim.

Then explain why the floors would have resisted.

 

[Bell]

Then explain why the floors would have resisted.

And keep away from Heiwa's explaination, if you want to try and save what little credibility you have left.

 

[funk de fino]

The sound of goalposts scraping across the floor in 3.2.1...

 

[T.A.M.]

People, for the love of god, just put this troll on ignore, and move on to more mature, honest discussions.

Don't make me bring out the electrical transformer and aeresol can explosions again.

TAM

 

[Cuddles]

Everyone please stop the bickering and personal attacks.

In addition, this thread is supposed to be about the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth group. There are plenty of other threads for discussing general points about 9/11. Please get this one back on topic or it will end up either in AAH or just closed.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles