Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

[A W Smith]

You're just looking for a way to deny their testimony. You don't know how well they could see the top of the towers but you are implying that Chief Cruthers isn't being truthful, that he didn't really see materials ejected at the very top before the collapse began because he didn't have a good vantage point. Talk about a lack of respect.

Camera footage? which tower? from what angle? So what?
You don't know where he was standing or what he could see so don't try to discredit the Chief, or the others.
Frank Cruthers -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Citywide Tour Commander] is highly qualified and can recognize explosions when he sees them. The other firefighters were also qualified to recognize explosions and were honestly stating what they saw.
You are NOT qualified to second guess them or doubt their word.

That's just another excuse to dismiss what they said.
You don't know whether or not they have tried to speak out and been rebuffed?

i'm showing disrespect? You claim that they are being rebuffed? that they wont speak out? may i remind the loathsome traitor and terrorist apologist that is Chris Sarns that the FDNY lost 343 brothers that day. May you rot in hell, and at the age of 65,,,soon.

 

[Bell]

Christopher7, do us and the world a favor and don't return here until you have learnt what a similie is and how to recognize them.

 

[johnny karate]

How explicit do they have to get before you will admit that they are, at very least, "suggesting" the collapse was indicative of a controlled demolition?

This doesn't qualify?
"It looked like it was a timed explosion"
or this?
"It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings."
or this?
"Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode."
or
"It was if they had detonated, [unintelligible] they planned to take down a building."

Seriously,if a NY firefighter came right out and said it was a CD, what would happen to him? Would he get Dixie Chicked? You betcha! You, and a lot of notable TV personalities would be calling him a loon or worse.

Attaboy, Chris! As despicable as your insinuations may be, at least you have the courage of your convictions to admit you believe members of the FDNY are complicit in the 9/11 attacks by virtue of their silence.

The only problem is, my original post you're quoting was directed at RedIbis, who lacks such conviction. He prefers the meager comfort of cognitive dissonance that allows him to both believe firefighters witnessed events indicative of a controlled demolition, while at the same time are completely guiltless in their refusal to acknowledge it. For him to admit what you have would require an intellectual honesty far beyond his capability.

 

[johnny karate]

Most of the accounts are not figurative at all, but literal descriptions of what they saw and heard. It is this specificity that you are trying to get people to avoid.

I defy you to present testimony from any firefighter in which they literally describe experiencing a bomb or explosive.

I'll be over here not holding my breath.

 

[GlennB]

..... I just followed a link provided, used the control + feature and confirmed that R.Mackey was right, admitted I was wrong and have changed my position to reflect this new knowledge.

Ah, but some months ago we discussed that "grappler" photo that you posted the other day to support your steel temperature argument. Back then you finally conceded it had been taken at night and that the colours were not trustworthy for assessing the temperature. Then you go right ahead and use it again. Why? Did you just forget the previous debate on the subject or are you more interested in creating an impression than in actual facts?

 

[Christopher7]

For anyone new to these issues, I created a video, WTC Not a Demolition, which shows how absurd those claims are from an audiovisual standpoint. There's an index with direct links to the different video segments here.

The video begins with Evan Fairbanks' closeup of the beginning of the south tower collapse. The east wall continues to buckle inward – as it had visibly been doing within 18 minutes of impact – and finally fails.

There are no detonations initiating the collapse, which is why Richard Gage ran from my challenge to demonstrate them in this clip,

The clip you use doesn't show explosions, this one does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtx_GcFCs6c&feature=related

I'll find the video that best shows the explosions at onset of collapse. As I remember, you have to watch closely and view it many times [also in slo mo] because it all happens so fast.

I watched some of your video. I'll watch the rest soon.

You seem primarily intent on discrediting the messenger by claiming the Truth Community embraces the altered audio collapse video. They don't. I have never seen that version before much less heard anyone tout it. That's what we call a
"Straw Man".

I think the bit about the camera moving is shaky with or without the sound. Somebody could have just bumped the tripod, so we agree there, but he literal "Labeling" of the lads as "Dishonest" is a bit melodramatic.

Also, you're really hung up on the sound aspect as if that was ll that mattered. Are you a demolitions expert? Did you know that there over a thousand different kinds of explosives? Do you know all about the state of the art stuff the military has?
You make a huge point out of the lack of audio evidence but don't have a problem with NIST keeping 7,000 video clips from the public.

Love the slightly out of tune blues guitar. It works.

 

[ref]

Chris, when did you start hating the government?

 

[Christopher7]

i'm showing disrespect?

Yes

You claim that they are being rebuffed?

No

that they wont speak out?

I don't know and neither do you.

may i remind the loathsome traitor and terrorist apologist that is Chris Sarns

I was just thinking the same thing about you.

FDNY lost 343 brothers that day.

You are the one questioning the honesty of the living brothers.

May you rot in hell

For supporting the FDNY and speaking out against a character attack from someone who will question the integrity of anyone who says anything that disproves the government conspiracy theory.

 

[Bell]

You make a huge point out of the lack of audio evidence but don't have a problem with NIST keeping 7,000 video clips from the public.

First, why should those clips be released? To satisfy the needs of a handful of delusional truthers who can't make head or tails of the evidence that is out there in the first place?

Second, why do you figure would NIST have te authority to release the videoclips?

Btw, did you learn about similies allready?

 

[Christopher7]

Chris, when did you start hating the government?

When they killed Bobby Kennedy, 3 hours after I voted for him.

Johnson, Nixon and Regan I didn't like. Carter I like [even tho I have since learned that he is a member of the club] Bush/Clinton/Bush I don't like.
Johnson and Bush Jr took us to war based on a pack of lies.

I love and respect the Constitution and I feel fortunate to have been born here. However, freedom is not free, we must fight for it! I am fighting for the restoration of the Bill of Rights that the Military Commissions Act effectively nullified, and to bring to justice those responsible for this phony "War on Terror".

 

[Bell]

When they killed Bobby Kennedy, 3 hours after I voted for him.

Johnson, Nixon and Regan I didn't like. Carter I like [even tho I have since learned that he is a member of the club] Bush/Clinton/Bush I don't like.
Johnson and Bush Jr took us to war based on a pack of lies.

I love and respect the Constitution and I feel fortunate to have been born here. However, freedom is not free, we must fight for it! I am fighting for the restoration of the Bill of Rights that the Military Commissions Act effectively nullified, and to bring to justice those responsible for this phony "War on Terror".

You should go to the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region, look up Osama and his Al Qaida and tell them you have evidence that irrefutable proofs they did not do 9/11.

 

[Christopher7]

First, why should those clips be released?

So we can look at them and listen to them.

To satisfy the needs of a handful of delusional truthers who can't make head or tails of the evidence that is out there in the first place?

Do you think it is right to keep the truth hidden? Only those with something to hide would want the videos kept from the public. Why do you oppose releasing all the evidence?

Second, why do you figure would NIST have te authority to release the videoclips?

When I requested photos and videos of WTC 7, Steve Cauffman was nice enough to walk me thru the FEMA FoIA process. They eventually told me that they would not be releasing any documents until the investigation was over. I have not filed again but others have and so far they have not released any more photos or videos that I know of.

 

[beachnut]

How about allowing people to decide for themselves with whom they want to have a discussion?

Although I do understand why you would not want to address Chris7's list in the post above yours. None of these accounts are describing the bodies. Most of the accounts are not figurative at all, but literal descriptions of what they saw and heard. It is this specificity that you are trying to get people to avoid.

People who post this tripe to support delusions of another poster are void of evidence themselves to prove anything about 911.

Why do people support idiots like Gage and his band of dumb guys who can't figure out 911 and signed Gage's roster to get a free lunch? Why do people support those who are too lazy to figure out 911 so they repeat failed ideas from Gage? Because they lack the knowledge to understand hearsay, lies and fantasy are not evidence.

The delusions have been covered in the references offered for the past 2 years and in this tread. So far the references are ignored, and not a single 911Truth supporter has offered evidence to support their failed movement’s failed ideas.

The junk posted by 911Truth has been covered, and Gage’s stuff has been covered and is not even Gage’s work, but the failed work of other failed 911Truth frauds. A movement made up of lies, hearsay, and delusions crafted by frauds. 911Truth is a parasite to other ideas like anti-war. 911Truth delusions dumb down the best ideas so the uniformed fall for the dumbest ideas on earth. As 911Truth continually apologizes for the 19 terrorist, they offer no evidence to support their claims on 911.

Just lies, hearsay, and fantasy, all based on no evidence. No evidence here, just failed support for failed ideas, and failed posters.

What do you know, another simile challenged truther. I did note, someone found a few statements without "like" in them, but he also failed to see there were no explosives in them either.

As pointed out earlier,
- a train did in the WTC!

 

[dtugg]

You have no right to see those videos just because you are incredibly paranoid and delusional. They are private property. It's not like they would show anything different anyway. If there was audio evidence of bombs going off, it would have been in ALL of the videos and there are already plenty.

What other conspiracy theories do you believe in? Moon Hoax? CIA killed JFK/RFK/MLK? Chemtrails? HAARP is a weather control device/causes earthquakes? The NWO controls the world? The Earth is flat?

 

[Bell]

So we can look at them and listen to them.

There are allready enough video's and photo's that proof there was NO controlled demolition, either using silent explosives or therm*te. But...

Do you think it is right to keep the truth hidden? Only those with something to hide would want the videos kept from the public. Why do you oppose releasing all the evidence?

... in the delusional truther world the video's that are allready out there do proof there was a CD (??) So, if the proof is out there, why do you need more video's? Or are you saying the video's that are allready out there cannot proof a CD?

When I requested photos and videos of WTC 7, Steve Cauffman was nice enough to walk me thru the FEMA FoIA process. They eventually told me that they would not be releasing any documents until the investigation was over. I have not filed again but others have and so far they have not released any more photos or videos that I know of.

You might want to consider that the video's are not property of NIST and thus their respective owners have to release them. I doubt any of them is going to give in the needs of delusional truthers who want to use the video's to further their agenda's.

 

[Christopher7]

You should go to the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region, look up Osama and his Al Qaida and tell them you have evidence that irrefutable proofs they did not do 9/11.

I have a better idea. Our MSM could tell the American people that the FBI has not charged Bin Laden with 9/11 because there is no hard evidence connecting him to 9/11.

The FBI has NOT charged Osama Bin Laden with 9/11 because there is NO hard evidence connecting him to 9/11. http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

The hijackers left NO paper trail, no mention of any aspect of the 9/11 plot.
Paragraph 14 http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm

The official 9/11 story, "Bin Laden and 19 hijackers did it" is a "CONSPIRACY THEORY"!
Conspiracy: a secret plan between two or more people to commit an illegal or subversive act
Theory: speculation, idea formed by speculation

Michael J. Heimbach; Assistant Director, Counterterrorism Division, National Security Branch, FBI
"Mr. Gage presents an interesting theory, backed by through research and analysis."
http://gators911truth.org/PDF/FBI-Response.pdf
Richard Gage, AIA, founder of Architects and Engineers for 911Truth.
http://www.ae911truth.org/

The National Institute of Standards and Technology [NIST] did NOT explain the collapse of the Trade Towers. They stopped at collapse initiation.
Pg 3 "NIST carried its analysis to the point where the buildings reached global instability."
Pg 4 "As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation- of the total collapse."
http://ocio.os.doc.gov/s/groups/public/@doc/@os/@ocio/@oitpp/documents/content/prod01_004108.pdf

NIST claims that the failure of a single column resulted in the total collapse of a 47 story building.
" Column 79—the structural component identified as the one whose failure on 9/11 started the progressive collapse—would still have led to a complete loss of the building if fire or damage from the falling debris of the nearby WTC 1 tower were not factors."
http://nist.gov/public_affairs/techbeat/tbx2008_1120_wtc7.htm

 

[dtugg]

Christopher7 what are you doing to set KSM free? Have you sent any of your "evidence" to his lawyer? If you need an address, I can help you with that. He is facing the death penalty you know.

 

[funk de fino]

The National Institute of Standards and Technology [NIST] did NOT explain the collapse of the Trade Towers. They stopped at collapse initiation.

C7, you believe any old truther debunked nonsense dont you? You do know thay have explained the collapse dont you? You would not post that knowing that they have in fact explained the collapse progression?

 

[funk de fino]

Michael J. Heimbach; Assistant Director, Counterterrorism Division, National Security Branch, FBI
"Mr. Gage presents an interesting theory, backed by through research and analysis."

I guess not only the moron Gage but also C7, do not recognise sarcasm.

 

[Christopher7]

C7, you believe any old truther debunked nonsense dont you? You do know thay have explained the collapse dont you? You would not post that knowing that they have in fact explained the collapse progression?

No they have not! You didn't read the statement right or follow the link to the document.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology [NIST] did NOT explain the collapse of the Trade Towers. They stopped at collapse initiation.
Pg 3 "NIST carried its analysis to the point where the buildings reached global instability."
Pg 4 "As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation- of the total collapse."
http://ocio.os.doc.gov/s/groups/publ...d01_004108.pdf