Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

[Gravy]

And for new folks and lurkers who're unaware of this, these explosions do not appear in the seismic record either. Christopher7 has disputed this in the past, and so have others who choose to believe the various conspiracy fantasies; my only response is to read the links above and do searches of this forum's archives to gather information and decide for yourselves.

My response to anyone who wants to assess Christopher7's rational capability is, "Christopher7's Greatest Hits (er, Misses, that is)."

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Mea culpa mea culpa mea screwedda uppa

Reported for trying to induce Christopher7 to violate Rule 8 . Something about his

Keep up with the times: it's been rule 10 for over a year!

D'OH!

Well... Rule 8 is in essence about privacy violations... and I guess you can say that revealing circumlocution emanating from alternate anatomical areas can in a twisted way be considered a violation of such...

 

[ElMondoHummus]

My response to anyone who wants to assess Christopher7's rational capability is, "Christopher7's Greatest Hits (er, Misses, that is)."

Well, yes, there is that too. Don't get me wrong, folks, I wasn't attributing logic (or sanity) to Chris's objection. Merely pointing out that there's plenty of rationality out there that demonstrates the falsity of his claims. But Gravy's got a point too; just read some of his greatest hits from that above link:

• "I can better assess the damage, sitting here at my computer 5 years later, because i can see the other 2 [perhaps 3] sides of wtc 7 that the firefighter could not see."
• "What doesn't make sence is putting fireproofing on steel box beams that are 2 ft. by 4 1/2 ft. and 4 in. thick. Why fireproof something that is fireproof ?"
• "Fires in buildings don't burn hot enough to weaken steel I beams. Where you get this stuff, one of those debunking sites?"
• "In Shanksville a 575 hit filldirt at a 40 degree angle
  A better comparison would be a tennis ball hitting an egg after bouncing off a brick wall."
• "Wrong: An investigation ENDS with a hypothesis, NIST STARTED with one."

... and so on. So folks, read for yourselves, decide for yourselves. Just don't drink while reading some of the other side; most warranties do not cover coffee or colas spit onto your monitor.




The one I liked best was how someone was "a gluten for insipid pseudo-scientific gibberish". A gluten?? So, if you knead him right, he'll develop structure and hold together while baking? And some people are allergic to him?

 

[alexi_drago]

I am confused, enough therm?te to result in molten stuff flowing from the core columns to the outer wall on one floor (the floor with the fire) but none flowing out of the building at any lower floors and was there lots more of the stuff running down the elevator shafts and the stuff that managed to get to the outer walls was only a very small amount of the total stuff so again, why none flowing out at lower floors is there was such a huge amount? Or why didn't it all just run down through the core?

 

[Christopher7]

Jones did made up thermite as the means. No evidence.

On the contrary, he has a great deal of evidence.

19 terrorists killed 8 pilots, crash 4 planes. Too hard for Gage to figure out?

Why do you believe that?
Where is the evidence?

The FBI has NOT charged Osama Bin Laden with 9/11 because there is NO hard evidence connecting him to 9/11. http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

The hijackers left NO paper trail, no mention of any aspect of the 9/11 plot.
Paragraph 14 http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm

The official 9/11 story, "Bin Laden and 19 hijackers did it" is a
"CONSPIRACY THEORY"!
Conspiracy: a secret plan between two or more people to commit an illegal or subversive act
Theory: speculation, idea formed by speculation

 

[Thunder]

All the evidence you ever need is available online from the Moussoui trial.

But you aren't really interested in evidence that doesn't fit your worldview...now are you?

Thought not.

 

[beachnut]

My response to anyone who wants to assess Christopher7's rational capability is, "Christopher7's Greatest Hits (er, Misses, that is)."

Wowzer

As bad as Gage

"At 63 or any age I'm trying to save my country from the unspeakibly EVIL men who MURDERED 3000 Americans on 9-11."

Just like Gage; not able to understand the 19 terrorists did it, they are dead; too late to save the country from the Evil men, they are dead. Loads of common sense, this one has.

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. Albert Einstein

 

[HyJinX]

Christopher7 is SOOOOOOO last year...or does that style of crazy never go out of style?

 

[Christopher7]

1. The substance pouring out of the WTC in that photo "appears" to be of the temperature you speak, but (A) you cannot prove it is metal (though I suspect it is)

There is nothing else it could be.

(B) you are comparing two independent images, without verifying that the colors in them are accurate.

The images are reasonably accurate as to color. The color chart is not exact nor does it need to be. The approximate temperature of the molten metal can be ascertained by comparing the photos to the chart.

Edit: and by the way, NONE of the "molten METAL in the debris pile", "Explosions", or "bone fragments atop a building 250 feet away" indicate, let alone prove the use of "Explosives", unless by explosives you mean "a jet airliner crashing into the building, followed by collapse of said building".

The only known cause of the molten metal is thermite.
The numerous accounts of explosions from first responders, videos of survivors on 9/11 telling of explosions and radio calls from firefighters in the towers reporting explosions, are evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that there were numerous explosions before and during the collapses.

The bone fragments on top of a 560 foot building 250 feet away are proof positive of explosives. It would be impossible for falling floors to crush people and then eject their bone fragments 250-300 feet laterally.

 

[Macgyver1968]

And the molten metal in the debris pile.

Whatever the metal was, it was in the 2300 - 2500°F range.

[qimg]http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/3036/moltenmetalpp1.jpg[/qimg]

You give the man too much credit. He did not invent thermite, he found it in the WTC dust.

Thanks to your gracious help and further analysis, Richard Gage has dropped the angle cuts and the squibs. As time goes on and mistakes are pointed out, Richard will continue to eliminate these points.
You, on the other hand, will never change your position. You will continue to deny the existence of molten metal in the debris pile, explosions, bone fragments on top of a building 250 feet away and anything else that proves explosive demolition.
You will cling to your Conspiracy Theory about Bin Laden and 19 hijackers even though there is no hard evidence that they were responsible for the attacks on 9/11.

I'm sorry..I'm new here...so if I'm beating a dead horse...or make that a horse that has completely decomposed into its basic elements....

Why would the "Insiders" (this is my term for the people who planned the conspiracy) use Thermite as their tool of choice? Thermite is generally used to weld large hunks of metal together...like rail road rails. Thermate is used by the military to disable enemy equipment by burning holes in stuff, and welding everything together...neither would be really good at cutting off, cleanly and quickly a structural member..especially in a vertical application, like the core and perimeter columns, where the molten iron would just run down the column...like wax down a candle, as these reactions only work in a horizontal configuration, so gravity pulls the molten iron through the material.

I'm a handy man...I'm pretty "good with tools". Whenever I have a job to do, and I don't know what the right tool is...I look at what the professionals use. They do the job everyday, and out of repetition, have figured out the best way to do things.

Professional demolition companies use explosives when they need to quickly cut through large structural pieces. Why did the insiders choose Thermite? Thermite reactions also create large amounts of molten iron and smoke. If the Insiders used thermite, they would have had to target more than just one spot in the building. Whether they targeted the inner core columns, or the perimeter columns or the floor trusses that connected them. No matter what the target...many charges would have to been deployed. Why do we only see this one stream of molten metal? If thermite had been used, streams like this would have been pouring out like this all around the impact area, immediately before the collapse began. But we don't just see that. Why is it?

Could this be just a bunch of assorted melted crap that was exposed to a particularly hot spot in the fire?

 

[Christopher7]

Hi Chris7

Here's a photo of a woodfire in my fireplace. Care to estimate the temperature of the hottest spots ? ----

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg274/sap-guy/IMGP0115.jpg

The color of the temperature of a fire and the color of the temperature of molten metal are different. Can you melt steel in your fireplace? Can you get any metal to melt and glow at the colors we see in the photos?

 

[Macgyver1968]

The color of the temperature of a fire and the color of the temperature of molten metal are different. Can you melt steel in your fireplace? Can you get any metal to melt and glow at the colors we see in the photos?

Thermite is made of powered aluminum and iron oxide. The powered aluminum is the fuel for the reaction and burns at a temperature greater than the melting point of iron. What was the plane made of?

 

[Sunstealer]

The only known cause of the molten metal is thermite.

No. Metal becomes liquid due to heat and heat alone. (not excluding pressure for pedants)

The problems that you have are numerous;

First is demonstrating that the material you see is Iron (Fe).
Second is demonstrating that this Iron is from the thermite reaction.
Third (if not Fe) is demonstrating that this material is molten structural steel (A34)
Fourth is demonstrating that this molten structural steel is the result of thermite.
Fifth is demonstrating that there is no other way that this material isn't either of the above.

There are an enormous number of metals/material that are present in the WTC and the aircraft that hit it that will melt and therefore flow below the temperature at which Fe/steel/A34 will melt. If this is molten steel then one has to ask why is it not molten aluminium, lead or any other material.

You are coming to the conclusion before any proper analysis.

Lastly, lets assume just for the sake of it, that thermite was used to cut stantions and beams in the WTC - What parts of the structure needed to be cut and how much thermite would be needed to make such cuts?

How does molten steel behave? If the fires were not hot enough to melt steel then how can molten steel not solidify quickly? There simply would not be enough heat nor shortness of time for molten steel to flow to an opening in the picture above. It would partially solidify and therefore not flow.

I don't know how much structural steel would need to be melted in various locations (to cause collapse) because the truth movement has never provided the calculations/answer.

If as you are implying by saying the material you observe is molten steel produced from the thermite reaction then you ought to come up with some figures with regard to how much steel was needed to be melted and therefore how much thermite was needed for the job.

 

[MarkyX]

Because these news corporations are controlled. And the best news is the news which is leaked early on by mistake.

So 9/11 wasn't a terrorist attack, but an airplane accident?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

If as you are implying by saying the material you observe is molten steel produced from the thermite reaction then you ought to come up with some figures with regard to how much steel was needed to be melted and therefore how much thermite was needed for the job.

As far as the "molten metal" being spotted post collapse, I'm not sure why christopher still uses that horse feces, particularly given the assumptions he has to make in order to make such a claim viable. I've outlined this matter to him multiple times... it doesn't get through his thick noggin...

 

[Hourglassmemory]

So 9/11 wasn't a terrorist attack, but an airplane accident?

Not only that but there were reporters saying things like "I've heard something's hit the capitol as well. I don't know."
What does that mean in the "conspiracy hypothesis"?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

The bone fragments on top of a 560 foot building 250 feet away are proof positive of explosives. It would be impossible for falling floors to crush people and then eject their bone fragments 250-300 feet laterally.

O RLY?

How's that?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The only known cause of the molten metal is thermite.

Have you heard of steel mills? Also, do you mean to say that aluminum can only be melted by thermite? What about tinfoil?

 

[A W Smith]

The bone fragments on top of a 560 foot building 250 feet away are proof positive of explosives. It would be impossible for falling floors to crush people and then eject their bone fragments 250-300 feet laterally.

Which building was that? the Deutsche Bank Building?

 

[Christopher7]

I never said that, and that's not what ref is referring to. So what are you talking out of?

The point is - you are not a demolitions expert and you are not qualified to say anything about how or with what the building had to be rigged, nor can you say with any certainty how much noise a CD must make.

Gage repeatedly claims that there were multiple witnesses to explosions that initiated the collapses.

There were.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/13165

Gage also makes the astonishing claim that explosives threw 230-ton steel sections hundreds of feet "like matchsticks"

You ignore the point by criticizing his getting the weight wrong.
The point is:
The sections were 4 tons and they were thrown laterally up to 600 feet. A gravity collapse cannot rip these 4 ton sections apart and hurl them 500 to 600 feet. I have seen the funny math posted here. It is missing one critical element. What is the mechanism for converting downward force into lateral force?
BTW, structural steel is NOT spring steel.

turned tens of thousands of tons of concrete to a fine powder.

The concrete was pulverized, the amount is immaterial.

Or is the truth that Gage is simply a disturbed liar who will say anything to try to win an audience? What's your opinion on these things, Christopher7?

You choose to engage in attacks on the messenger and ignore or deny the evidence.

If you are confused about these things, I suggest that you watch my video World Trade Center Not a Demolition, which takes you through these claims from an audiovisual standpoint. What did I get wrong, Christopher7?

I'll check it out.