Truthers and the FDNY

[twinstead]

For Christ's sake, Red. Is your world view THAT strong that you can't even listen to criticism?

 

[Tweeter]

That's the main tactic 9/11 deniers use. They imply a lot, but accuse nothing. That way they can take the cowardish way out when they are called out.

You mean cowardly like taking a few cheap shots at someone you claim to have on ignore?

 

[TheRedWorm]

How many FFs thought that the explosions were due to an "inside job?"

How about you, Tweeter?

 

[beachnut]

Firefighter Thomas Turilli, who is in the lobby of the North Tower: “[A]ll of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came… It just seemed like a huge explosion.” [CITY OF NEW YORK, 1/17/2002]

"like" it

A simile is a figure of speech comparing two unlike things, often introduced with the word "like" or "as".[

Two unlike things, a bomb and the aircraft impact.
Two unlike things, a bomb and the tower falling floor after floor impacting the floor below faster and faster.
Two unlike thinks, a bomb and bodies hitting the ground.

Intelligence can be displayed; when will 911Truth find some and display it.

In a bomb blast people are blown up; on 911 not one person was blown up. In a bomb blast the sound is much louder than the sounds people sad sounded like a bomb. Once again for 911Truth - it is a simile; using like or as. lol like for real, lol and try to display some intelligence instead of acting like 911Truth and spewing doltish statements.

It takes a special stupid when 911Truth post FDNY statements and try to pass them off as proof of explosives when they are clearly using a simile. No one at JREF forum would be that lacking in critical thinking and knowledge. (how many times does this have to be repeated?)

Extra credit: if they were talking about a bomb, or if you want to talk about a bomb you would say; “Firefighter who was close to the bomb going off: “[A]ll of a sudden you heard the bomb going off, it was bombs going off with my ears blown out and my fellow firefighter knocked down, he died of a concussion from the blast of the bomb, it was a huge explosion.””

No likes would be used and there would be blast damage, and blast sound to go with it, not the sounded like a bomb statement 911Truth can not figure out to save their pathetic delusion.

 

[J. Wellington Wimpy]

"like" it

Quote:
A simile is a figure of speech comparing two unlike things, often introduced with the word "like" or "as".[

Two unlike things, a bomb and the aircraft impact.
Two unlike things, a bomb and the tower falling floor after floor impacting the floor below faster and faster.
Two unlike thinks, a bomb and bodies hitting the ground.

Drat, you beat me to it. (You guys are fast...!)

 

[johnny karate]

I'm not aware of any second part you're referring to. Care to post the link?

And you criticize my reading comprehension skills.

Reread my post. Carefully. Have your abacus ready.

Of course you try to frame the question that way. What I'm sure you don't want me to produce is one firefighter who described what he experienced as bombs going off.

Feel free.

One...

And then explain why that same firefighter doesn't believe there was anything suspicious or contradictory to the official version about what he experienced.

Two!

Now that we've got this whole counting to two thing licked, let's move on shall we?

You've provided testimony from a firefighter who likened his experience on 9/11 to "bombs going off".

Now all you have to do is explain why Thomas Turilli attributed nothing suspicious or contradictory to the official version to his experience.

 

[johnny karate]

How about you, Tweeter?

Ignore Tweeter. His opinion of the FDNY is a matter of record:

What are the qualifications to become a fireman? Most of the ones from my town are barely literate, firebugs and followers. I wouldnt trust their version of events if you paid me.

Do not engage this troll. He brings nothing to the discussion other than bile and idiocy.

 

[Macgyver1968]

"like" it

Two unlike things, a bomb and the aircraft impact.
Two unlike things, a bomb and the tower falling floor after floor impacting the floor below faster and faster.
Two unlike thinks, a bomb and bodies hitting the ground.

Intelligence can be displayed; when will 911Truth find some and display it.

In a bomb blast people are blown up; on 911 not one person was blown up. In a bomb blast the sound is much louder than the sounds people sad sounded like a bomb. Once again for 911Truth - it is a simile; using like or as. lol like for real, lol and try to display some intelligence instead of acting like 911Truth and spewing doltish statements.

It takes a special stupid when 911Truth post FDNY statements and try to pass them off as proof of explosives when they are clearly using a simile. No one at JREF forum would be that lacking in critical thinking and knowledge. (how many times does this have to be repeated?)

He he.."Special Stupid"...I like that term.

People can only describe things in terms they are familiar with. Many of the sights and sounds of 9/11 were unique events, that no one has seen or heard before. Therefore they must use familiar terms to describe unfamiliar events. No one has ever heard the sound of a commercial airliner strike a building at 500 mph before...no one has heard the sound of a 110-story building collapse. When you hear a really loud sound..how do you describe it? You might say: "it sounded like a bomb going off" or " it sounded like a freight train"...because these are common terms of reference. You probably wouldn't say "It sounded like an elevator falling from 80 stories", because that is not a common reference frame.

Reasonable people can understand this difference...and when someone says "It sounded LIKE a bomb going off" it doesn't necessarily mean "A bomb when off".


Hello everyone, I'm Mac, and I'm new....I'm just old at heart.
I generally use a "common sense" approach at discussing 9/11.

 

[Alt+F4]

Reasonable people can understand this difference...and when someone says "It sounded LIKE a bomb going off" it doesn't necessarily mean "A bomb when off".

Hello everyone, I'm Mac, and I'm new....I'm just old at heart.
I generally use a "common sense" approach at discussing 9/11.

Welcome!

Unfortunately, the search feature here isn't that good but there was a thread awhile ago about things that sound like bombs but aren't bombs. For the lurkers, newbies and other readers, I'll post a few of the highlights:

Guatemalan Sink Hole - Three people were missing Friday after a 61 meter hole opened up in the middle of a Guatemalan neighborhood, likely due to a burst sewer pipe. "It sounded like a bomb was dropping. Boom!" said Carlos Gutierrez, 58, of the crater, which measured 40 meters in diameter.

Mystery Ice - Large chunks of ice, one of them reportedly about 50 pounds, fell from the sky in this northeast Iowa city, smashing through a woman's roof and tearing through nearby trees.
"It sounded like a bomb!" 78-year-old Jan Kenkel said. She said she was standing in her kitchen when an ice chunk crashed through her roof at about 5:30 a.m. Thursday. "I jumped about a foot!"

Bus Crash - The accident occurred around 10:45 a.m. after an unoccupied bus apparently rolled down an hill and crashed into a building in the 3300 block of Whitehaven Street in Northwest, D.C. Fire and EMS say. Building employees say it sounded like a bomb went off when the bus crashed through, and the building swayed for about 10 seconds.

Tornado - “The storm hit and it was awful,” said the 73-year-old lifelong Montanan. “It sounded like a bomb when it hit. We are just so fortunate no one got hurt. I've never seen anything like this - one half of my house is gone.”

Lightning – Friday’s thunderstorms may have left much of the region knee-deep in water, but one resident thought a bomb had been dropped after his house was hit by lightning. "I was walking to the bathroom to splash water on my face when I heard what I thought sounded like a bomb…”

Exploding Cell Phone - Michael Sathre, 13, holds the remains of the cell phone that exploded as he picked it up off the floor last August. His father says it sounded like a bomb going off.

Broken Pyrex - If you drop a Pyrex anything on the floor, stand back. These things explode. Literally. An old boyfriend once dropped the green bowl from my Pyrex nesting set and brought our entire party to stunned halt. It sounded like a bomb and threw shards 20' away, no kidding.

Overcooked Eggs - Right as my timer expired there was a HUGE BANG from inside the microwave. My eggs had exploded. We’re not talking “cracked” or something. They literally exploded. It sounded like a bomb had gone off inside the microwave. When I opened the door, I wasn’t sure that one hadn’t.

Deer Struck by Chevy Astrovan - My wife killed the biggest in the family year before last with a 4.3L. Chevy Astrovan. It was only 2 years old and it TOTALED the van. It tried to jump the road and landed half way on the roof and half way in the windshield. It sounded like a bomb went off inside the van. Thank God nobody was hurt.

Car Crashing Into Day Care Center - None of the center’s staff actually observed the crash, although Howell said everyone heard it.“It sounded like a bomb going off in here,” Howell said. “It was nap time, and there was an awful crash and we took off running,” said daycare supervisor Pam Qualls. “We just concentrated on getting the kids out, calling 9-1-1, and then started calling the parents.”

 

[beachnut]

He he.."Special Stupid"...I like that term.

People can only describe things in terms they are familiar with. Many of the sights and sounds of 9/11 were unique events, that no one has seen or heard before. Therefore they must use familiar terms to describe unfamiliar events. No one has ever heard the sound of a commercial airliner strike a building at 500 mph before...no one has heard the sound of a 110-story building collapse. When you hear a really loud sound..how do you describe it? You might say: "it sounded like a bomb going off" or " it sounded like a freight train"...because these are common terms of reference. You probably wouldn't say "It sounded like an elevator falling from 80 stories", because that is not a common reference frame.

Reasonable people can understand this difference...and when someone says "It sounded LIKE a bomb going off" it doesn't necessarily mean "A bomb when off".


Hello everyone, I'm Mac, and I'm new....I'm just old at heart.
I generally use a "common sense" approach at discussing 9/11.

After seeing your posts, the common sense you display is based on knowledge and sound judgment you have gain from experience and education. You have trained yourself to be logical and it gives you an ability to be skeptical naturally. That is my guess, I could be wrong.

I look to physics to explain 911Truth cult members who are able to display a special stupid with ease and they call it common sense by mistake. I found Einstein figured out 911Truth all those years ago.

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. Albert Einstein

 

[johnny karate]

For the sake of argument, I'm willing to let the whole simile argument go, and assume the firefighters who described bomb-like phenomenon on 9/11 were being literal.

What I want to know is why those same firefighters have not come forward in the intervening years to claim they felt their experiences contradicted or placed in suspect light the official version of events.

 

[Alt+F4]

What I want to know is why those same firefighters have not come forward in the intervening years to claim they felt their experiences contradicted or placed in suspect light the official version of events.

Yes, considering the FDNY had quite a bit to say regarding the 2007 fire at the Deutsche Bank Building in which two firefighters were killed.

 

[Macgyver1968]

After seeing your posts, the common sense you display is based on knowledge and sound judgment you have gain from experience and education. You have trained yourself to be logical and it gives you an ability to be skeptical naturally. That is my guess, I could be wrong.

I look to physics to explain 911Truth cult members who are able to display a special stupid with ease and they call it common sense by mistake. I found Einstein figured out 911Truth all those years ago.

Thank you for your response.

When I use the term "Common Sense" argument. I mean I probably won't nit pick the numbers in the NIST report with someone...when I speak of common sense..here is what I'm talking about:

You are walking down the sidewalk and you notice that someone has cut down a tree, and piled the brush on the sidewalk, blocking 5m of the sidewalk. Do you:

A. Walk around the brush pile.

B. Climb over and through the 5m of brush.

99.99999% of the people on the planet will choose A. Why? because it's much easier and less dangerous than climbing over it. People, as a general rule, if given a choice, do things the easiest and safest way possible.

The "Insiders" that planned the conspiracy are people too...and are subject to these same human tendencies.

Why would they intentionally design a plan that is WAY more complex that it has to be? Why would they make the plan more difficult by using both planes and explosives, with either would do the job? Why would they create a "Rube Goldberg machine" of a plan, when much simpler and safer options existed?

I'm a pretty handy guy..if they put me in charge of the Insider team...I would have just planted explosives in the basement on the 48 core columns. Terrorists have already used bombs in the basement before, so no one would question it was terrorists. The basement is more accessible than the occupied, rented space at the top of the tower. Call in a bomb threat, and set off an "we're not kidding" example bomb, and give enough time for the media to set up their cameras, then blow the whole building right there before god and everyone. Simple..safe..effective. No need for planes. Why would anyone intentionally place their charges in a place they know a plane is going to hit at 500mph?...that's really risky...you could only hope they would survive and be usable.

These are they types of questions I ask, when I talk about "Common Sense"

 

[Alt+F4]

The "Insiders" that planned the conspiracy are people too...and are subject to these same human tendencies.

Not according to the "truthers". I don't remember which poster wrote this, but it's worth repeating:

"According to the CTers, "Black Ops" guys are everywhere, omnipotent, able to violate every law in the book, including laws of physics, chemistry, gravity, and common-sense. They have "licenses to kill," unlimited sources of funding and logistics, complete knowledge of every aspect of the planet, from metallurgy to religion, fanatical loyalty and obedience to their immediate chain of command, and not the slightest scruple of morality about murder, assassination, committing atrocities, or betraying fellow countrymen."

 

[Macgyver1968]

Not according to the "truthers". I don't remember which poster wrote this, but it's worth repeating:

"According to the CTers, "Black Ops" guys are everywhere, omnipotent, able to violate every law in the book, including laws of physics, chemistry, gravity, and common-sense. They have "licenses to kill," unlimited sources of funding and logistics, complete knowledge of every aspect of the planet, from metallurgy to religion, fanatical loyalty and obedience to their immediate chain of command, and not the slightest scruple of morality about murder, assassination, committing atrocities, or betraying fellow countrymen."

For the love of god and all that is sacred, please tell me that poster was utilizing satire...and didn't really mean all of that.

Do you ever feel bad? Like your picking on kids that ride the "short bus" to school?

At "Sciforums", the 9/11 threads are in the "Pseudoscience" sub-forum...where do they exist here? (never mind..i should read) and can you suggest any good ones?

 

[Alt+F4]

For the love of god and all that is sacred, please tell me that poster was utilizing satire...and didn't really mean all of that.

Do you ever feel bad? Like your picking on kids that ride the "short bus" to school?

At "Sciforums", the 9/11 threads are in the "Pseudoscience" sub-forum...where do they exist here? (never mind..i should read) and can you suggest any good ones?

Hehehe, yes it was satire. I'm not as mean as some of the other posters on this sub-forum but sometimes I do feel bad. Over over the past year it's become obvious to me that some 9/11 "truthers" (Judy Wood, Ace Baker come to mind) are suffering from some sort of mental illness.

 

[Macgyver1968]

Hehehe, yes it was satire. I'm not as mean as some of the other posters on this sub-forum but sometimes I do feel bad. Over over the past year it's become obvious to me that some 9/11 "truthers" (Judy Wood, Ace Baker come to mind) are suffering from some sort of mental illness.

I am totally convinced that a few of our troofers on SF are suffering from paranoid schizophrenia..and manfest their delusions in the form of the "unseen goverment agent". The conspiracy feed their delusions and gives them substance.

But I'm just a computer tech and a fix-it guy...not a psychiatrist.

 

[Alt+F4]

I think "truthers" fall into three categories:

1. Con-men who know it's all a lie and are in it for the money (Alex Jones, Dylan Avery).
2. The Mentally Ill (Judy Wood, Ace Baker).
3. Superman/Clark Kent Syndrome - Those want to be Superman though they realize they will always be Clark Kent. These types make up wild, outlandish 9/11 stories to get the attention on the Internet they will never get in real life. (CIT and their two or three followers).

 

[Macgyver1968]

What the hail! Can't this board afford it's own bandwidth? I spent the better part of a Sunday getting nothing but BW error messages...what the hail kinda show are y'all running here?

Can't even afford your own BW? I'm going back to SF...because obviously y'all don't have your **** together.

 

[njslim]

"According to the CTers, "Black Ops" guys are everywhere, omnipotent, able to violate every law in the book, including laws of physics, chemistry, gravity, and common-sense. They have "licenses to kill," unlimited sources of funding and logistics, complete knowledge of every aspect of the planet, from metallurgy to religion, fanatical loyalty and obedience to their immediate chain of command, and not the slightest scruple of morality about murder, assassination, committing atrocities, or betraying fellow countrymen."

Right now at ABOVE TOP SECRET the twofers are going nuts because someone found old
story about CITIGROUP building where engineers had to weld some 200 plates to
strenghten building against wind loads. It took 3 months to weld the plates in

According to twofer logic "proves" that could rig building ....