Split Thread The validity of classical physics (split from: DWFTTW)

[humber]

I'm afraid I'm with Greg on this one.

You should be. Hide.

There is something about someone being wrong and arrogant about it that pushes too many of my buttons to be healthy!

Buttons again, Captain.

Whilst the thread has indeed thrown up some interesting discussions and everyone save one person has probably learned something (I know I have- STILL no-one has attributed THAT Pythonism!!), dealing with not only Humber's errors, but the shear inability to deal with other (more correct!!) viewpoints respectfully means I can't help but include jibes with my responses. Humber is justified in responding in kind, so it all goes downhill from there.

There were jibes in your posts, Captain?
I though the Hamburg Kite Interpretation was jibberish, yes.

Poking the bear to elicit dumb responses was fun for a while, but it exceeds my frustration levels when the responses are not only clearly wrong, but smug with it!!

That must make training pilots rather difficult for you.

Happy to interact and learn from you all, but I'm through feeding Humbers phycosis!

Over and out, Captain Gravitas.

It was spoken about it this threads, Humber mentioned something about it being Waves, and we left him to that delusion.

Yes, that's right. It is possible to investigate them using Fourier analysis. Perhaps they are waves, after all.

 

[ThinAirDesigns]

There really are those that think planes cannot fly without wind.

Only "real wind" will do, right Humber?

JB

 

[humber]

Originally Posted by ThinAirDesigns View Post
I think I'm swinging towards the prophet.......

Yes, him hansum man.

 

[jjcote]

My brother was right. There really are those that think planes cannot fly without wind.

Interesting. Aren't you the one who was just claiming that a kite is an aircraft that will fly along happily if there is wind, but that will plummet if there is not?

 

[humber]

I have seen people being that wrong before and for many years. That person is not a fake and the discussions with him is similar to those with humber. That person killed the big air forum and is now banned from most other pg forums but still write his nonsense that has been disproved over and over again on youtube.

It is hard to say how much humber knows and how much he is trolling but similar behavior can be honest.

Very interesting but we're not talking about suspension dynamics - though if we did I would still use mechanical terms.

Yes, Mender, but some don't even see the point!
Anyway, as you can see, the models are derived using the good old mechanical terms. Though not ergs or perches or foot/phlogiston.

 

[humber]

Interesting. Aren't you the one who was just claiming that a kite is an aircraft that it will fly along happily if there is wind, but will plummet if there is not?

You like direct answers: Yes

Now I do believe that you must have left your degree back in Kansas; some aircraft are powered, some are not.

On Balloons:
Hot air balloons often have a basket. That basket is often suspended from the balloon itself by cables.
A kite is similar, in that it has a cable (some say a string) attached to it. Perhaps it is possible to take the "basket" of the balloon, and suspend it from the kite. This way, the kite may fly, but without a 'string'.

 

[humber]

Either you can't read, Humber, or you're trolling. They're not talking about without wind; they're saying a fixed-wing aircraft traveling with the wind at windspeed - i.e. with the air moving at the same speed as it - will stall. In aviation, this would be an airspeed of 0. Without wind, this reduces to a groudspeed of 0; in both cases the aircraft would stall.

Well done. Windspeed on the treadmill, has an airspeed of 0, and a groundspeed of 0.
Perhaps that was a lucky shot. How does the aircraft deal with getting airborne, or staying at a given velocity?
Perhaps if the differential of the wind falls, the liftfalls a bit, but not the craft itself.

 

[mender]

I stank a rectumed.

That's good, linking three separate references together like that!

But humber anticipated your post:

"Your lordship, arrest my butt".

 

[humber]

I took a look back at humber's original posts on the DDWFTTW thread, and it appears that, at least at that time, he was entirely sincere about his criticisms. There's no way of knowing what is going on in his head or of ascertaining whether he at some point figured out that he was wrong and just started playing around, but there's no indication of that as far as I could see.

And this does not speak well of his competence.

You speak well of your incompetence.

Put me down in the "no" column.

I have put you down, more than once. I have let a few opportunities go by, but not this one. Let me take from you the burden of admitting you were wrong.

Ironically, in looking over some of his earlier posts, I realized that it is possible to build a device that would use a flywheel to exploit gusts and travel at a speed that's higher than the average windspeed.

"Ironically". 'Realised'? Was there a choir? Angels?
The real irony is that it took me all of minutes to see it in the video, yet you need to sift my posts, in order to get it wrong.

It isn't what the carts that have been built are doing, and it would not be able to maintain its position on a constant-speed treadmill, but it is theoretically possible.

Goodman's and Bauer's certainly. Spork's uses at least two mechanisms.
Yes, secondhand Rose, that is what I said. Performance above windspeed in a constant wind, may not be sustainable.

It's kind of a Maxwell's Demon gizmo, and would have to have some tricky moving parts.

Persiflage. Nothing like Maxwell's Daemon. That is an intuition pump, not only for thermodynamics, but information theory.

The whole hopping/slipping nonsense would not be necessary. This does not in any way detract from the validity of the devices that have been built, though.

The slipping is not necessary but may be exploited. Like you, I don't think that Goodman is aware of that.
The hopping idea, like Maxwell's Daemon, is beyond you.

 

[humber]

That's good, linking three separate references together like that!

But humber anticipated your post:

"Your lordship, arrest my butt".

For arson.

 

[Myriad]

On Balloons:
Hot air balloons often have a basket. That basket is often suspended from the balloon itself by cables.
A kite is similar, in that it has a cable (some say a string) attached to it. Perhaps it is possible to take the "basket" of the balloon, and suspend it from the kite. This way, the kite may fly, but without a 'string'.

As with your claimed device that maintains its position indefinitely on a treadmill by supposedly exploiting the friction of the treadmill surface itself, if you can demonstrate a working model of such a kite, I can guarantee to raise you millions of dollars in investment capital to develop and market it. The applications in the venue advertising business alone would be worth a fortune.

To be specific, the device must maintain its altitude and hold a steady ground position in a steady wind, under ordinary wind conditions (without requiring some special wind shear conditions) without a tether to the ground, at a minimum altitude of 500 feet AGL, without the "cable" connecting the "basket" being longer than 100 feet, and without a motor.

N.B.: Something similar to what you describe would be possible by exploiting wind speed differences at different altitudes, if the "basket" becomes a drogue chute in the slower air at a lower altitude (instead of a mere weight, which would not work under any conditions). But that would require either unusual wind shear conditions, a long kite-to-drogue tether, and/or operating close to the ground, any of which would make the device no more useful than an ordinary tethered kite or balloon. Also that would be too obvious to be patentable. Hence the conditions in the previous paragraph.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[grmcdorman]

Well done. Windspeed on the treadmill, has an airspeed of 0, and a groundspeed of 0.
Perhaps that was a lucky shot. How does the aircraft deal with getting airborne, or staying at a given velocity?

Diversion.

Perhaps if the differential of the wind falls, the liftfalls a bit, but not the craft itself.

On the contrary. If the "differential" is such that the airspeed is below the stall speed, the aircraft will fall. Groundspeed is irrelevant.

Look up these terms: KTAS, KIAS.

 

[Tunny]

Hot air balloons often have a basket. That basket is often suspended from the balloon itself by cables.
A kite is similar, in that it has a cable (some say a string) attached to it. Perhaps it is possible to take the "basket" of the balloon, and suspend it from the kite. This way, the kite may fly, but without a 'string'.

Because everyone knows that what makes a lighter-than-air balloon fly is the basket.

I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that we're being trolled, but even if not, the entertainment value has worn thin. There is no observation simple enough, obvious enough, or trivially enough confirmed that he won't just gainsay it; and no idea so ludicrous, patently false, and self-contradictory that he will not only embrace it, but insult everyone else for thinking otherwise. It's been fun while it lasted, though.

Humber, if you ever come clean and admit you've been putting us on all along, then you have my heartfelt congratulations on a masterful hoax, and I'd be happy to buy you a beer sometime. On the off chance you're actually serious, well, best of luck to you.

Tunny

 

[ThinAirDesigns]

Hot air balloons often have a basket. That basket is often suspended from the balloon itself by cables.

A kite is similar, in that it has a cable (some say a string) attached to it. Perhaps it is possible to take the "basket" of the balloon, and suspend it from the kite. This way, the kite may fly, but without a 'string'.

--

I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that we're being trolled, ...

Tunny

A thousand posts ago I likely would have voted against "troll", but like Tunny, I've been turned.

Humber's most recent posts are indistinguishable from those of Humb -- and while that's a compliment to Humb and his/her ability to parody, I think Humber has now had to up the output just to keep up.

Troll. Final answer.

JB

 

[Clive]

Thanks, Clive, you just did.

Humber breaks wind again...

I guess the jig is finally up Humber? Or perhaps you'd like one more chance at maintaining the illusion that there actually is some kind of semi-coherent story behind the impenetrable smoke screen spewing from the chimney of your steam powered mind?

What are the necessary and sufficient conditions for a "wind" to be "real" according to you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because everyone knows that what makes a lighter-than-air balloon fly is the basket.

I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that we're being trolled, but even if not, the entertainment value has worn thin. There is no observation simple enough, obvious enough, or trivially enough confirmed that he won't just gainsay it; and no idea so ludicrous, patently false, and self-contradictory that he will not only embrace it, but insult everyone else for thinking otherwise. It's been fun while it lasted, though.

Humber, if you ever come clean and admit you've been putting us on all along, then you have my heartfelt congratulations on a masterful hoax, and I'd be happy to buy you a beer sometime. On the off chance you're actually serious, well, best of luck to you.

Tunny

Of course it is the basket that causes the balloon to have lift. The balloon is just there to keep it from rising to rapidly If you balanced your forces right you should be able to hot air balloon with a string and a basket. I am getting a collection together to send one to humber for testing now.

 

[GregLondon]

Greg:

What did you work on?

Airbus LCD's.

Didn't someone say you also worked on a drilling bit for oil rigs or something?

It's a weird combination, I think.

 

[semper]

1:18 was a timed lap, not a race. That time is probably not possible due to traffic. I did a lot of off road, so I was already aware of the potential, but that difference boggles the mind.

Why do I get the feeling your racing experience is all from a computer game?

 

[humber]

U

Because everyone knows that what makes a lighter-than-air balloon fly is the basket.

Good grief. Let me chisel it in stone for you. LIKE a hot air balloon, though not a hot air balloon itself, a kite can use a suspended mass to provide the reactive force normally provided by what most people, )though probably not you), call the string. It that enough for you or do toy still need more?

I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that we're being trolled, but even if not, the entertainment value has worn thin.There is no observation simple enough, obvious enough, or trivially enough confirmed that he won't just gainsay it; and no idea so ludicrous, patently false, and self-contradictory that he will not only embrace it, but insult everyone else for thinking otherwise. It's been fun while it lasted, though.
Humber, if you ever come clean and admit you've been putting us on all along, then you have my heartfelt congratulations on a masterful hoax, and I'd be happy to buy you a beer sometime. On the off chance you're actually serious, well, best of luck to you.

Tunny

Masterful? Derisively easy.

 

[humber]

Greg:



Didn't someone say you also worked on a drilling bit for oil rigs or something?

It's a weird combination, I think.

Yes, that too. What you mean is that you cannot accept that someone may know more than you, even in your own field. I am not an electronics engineer.