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Split Thread The validity of classical physics (split from: DWFTTW)

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Personally, I think recursive puppet is the sock prophet in this heap of firewood, or ointment, or whatever it is.
 
Windpeed = rain, yes.
Winspeed = processor performance running Windows o.s.
Winseed = 1st prize at farmers' autumn show.

The thing that amazes me is that I still haven't seen one gastric joke in these threads. Now I've done it.
 
humb said:
Personally, I think recursive puppet is the sock prophet in this heap of firewood, or ointment, or whatever it is.
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Now that's opening a whole new kettle of bananas!
Do we really want to let the goldfish out of the bag like that, put the cart among the bunnies?

If we're not careful, this whole thread will untangle like a lead kite.
 
Winspeed = how quickly humber claims that he has successfully defended his position yet again with "the treadmill is invalid".

I'm not sure I have the stomach for biological humour.
 
recursive prophet said:
If he is in fact someone as knowledgeable as say, spork-or in fact IS spork-and is putting us on, as I believe...
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Again, for the record, humber and I are definitely not the same person. If anyone can think of a way to prove that I'll be happy to. I can post the exchanges he and I have had via PM well before anyone suggested he and I might be one person.


Clive said:
For that matter, the "still air" above the treadmill in a small room as seen in the spork/JB videos isn't really completely still either is it? The propeller of the cart is moving some air about, people are moving around the treadmill, the belt is moving, and so on. How does this come into it?
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This is just the same as the "real" wind of course. In both cases we speak of the wind speed in the free stream (i.e. distant from any obstruction or proplusive device). In both cases there is gradient, turbulence, prop thrust, etc. in the vicinity of the ground, cart, or other objects.


Unfortunately, I can't keep up with this thread - so a lot of it is on the proverbial humber fast-scroll. I'd like to post an update to the poll, but I'm sure I've missed several responses. So please PM me with your responses as well as posting them. Thanks.
 
I took a look back at humber's original posts on the DDWFTTW thread, and it appears that, at least at that time, he was entirely sincere about his criticisms. There's no way of knowing what is going on in his head, or of ascertaining whether he at some point figured out that he was wrong and just started playing around, but there's no indication of that as far as I could see. And this does not speak well of his competence. Put me down in the "no" column.

Ironically, in looking over some of his earlier posts, I realized that it is possible to build a device that would use a flywheel to exploit gusts and travel at a speed that's higher than the average windspeed. It isn't what the carts that have been built are doing, and it would not be able to maintain its position on a constant-speed treadmill, but it is theoretically possible. It's kind of a Maxwell's Demon gizmo, and would have to have some tricky moving parts. The whole hopping/slipping nonsense would not be necessary. This does not in any way detract from the validity of the devices that have been built, though.
 
jjcote said:
The whole hopping/slipping nonsense would not be necessary.
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Indeed! How many of humber's ideas of how the cart (and the world) works smack of over-unity? I count at least four without looking back for some of the more obscure ones.
 
GregLondon said:
The way I figure it, if Humber isn't faking it, then he's never going to get it, and trying to get him to understand is just cruel at this point. So, I'd stop my conversation with him.

If Humber is faking it, then continued conversation with him only gives him the troll food he wants. So, I'd stop my conversation with him.

Game theory wise, there is no option that comes up "keep talking with humber".
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In the case of the simple zero-sum game, both sides can reveal their optimal strategy to their opponent...

The one option thatseemsto be in play is to demonstrate how...
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...an electrical engineer that seems not to know basic electrical theory, but when informed, cannot see that this same theory applies to mechanics,
yet continues to think that he can teach others.

See: http://ece-www.colorado.edu/~ecen2260/notes/AnalogNotes.pdf
It is very elementary knowledge, Greg.

...wrong humber is, which humber is playing right into. Which sort of tells me he may not know physics, but he may very well be getting some sort of strange satisfaction around getting people so upset at him that they have to keep correcting him.
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Bluff, in all senses of the word.

If he isn't faking it, he will never get it and you're wasting your time.
If he is faking, you're giving him exactly what he wants.
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Said the actress to the Bishop.

ANd if he doesn't know physics but is driven by a desire to confound people with outrageousness, then you're giving him exactly what he wants.
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Your Lordship, I rest my butt.
 
Clive said:
Humber:

You have often referred to "real wind" and claimed that it is different from the treadmill generated wind in important ways. Now, I've just been looking back through some ancient history and it seems that possibly your first use of the term was in post #411 of the original thread, but I couldn't find a definition!
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Thanks, Clive, you just did.
 
jjcote said:
By the way, while you're thinking about that, I have another question, about this mysterious lift that you claim affects balloons when it's windy: some balloons (some weather balloons in particular) are spherical. Does this lift that you speak of affect them?
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Not all balloons are spherical. You claim, "mathematics is one of the languages you speak", so I am sure you can work that one out.

Still, while you thought you were stringing me along to Kansas, I waited until I could tie you up with it, and you did most of the work. You are not trying to trip yourself up again, are you?
 
CORed said:
Yes they do (helicopters and autogyros excepted). Now you can make 200 posts claiming that fixed wing aircraft can fly at zero airspeed, Humber. This should be funny.

ETA: Actually an autogyro will not maintain altitude at zero airspeed (windspeed), but will descend slowly. A fixed wing aircraft will fall like a brick, of course.
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My brother was right. There really are those that think planes cannot fly without wind.

Instant ETA:
Only where the glider is shaped like a brick.
 
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humber said:
My brother was right. There really are those that think planes cannot fly without wind.
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Either you can't read, Humber, or you're trolling. They're not talking about without wind; they're saying a fixed-wing aircraft traveling with the wind at windspeed - i.e. with the air moving at the same speed as it - will stall. In aviation, this would be an airspeed of 0. Without wind, this reduces to a groudspeed of 0; in both cases the aircraft would stall.
 
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