Vision From Feeling

Status
Not open for further replies.
Okay I have managed to open the study procedure on a different computer.

Documentation
The study will be documented in writing. The claimant brings a notebook and takes notes on various things relating to the study and these notes will be made available on her webpage after the study.
"Various things"????
That really needs to be more specific. What things?
It seems (if I have read the later parts correctly) that the notes will be handed straight to one of the skeptics as soon as completed.
This is a definite improvement.

One of the goals is stated as:
To produce an estimate of the extent of the correlation between the claimant's medical perceptions and the perception that a volunteer has of their health
Yup, the scale's going to be there.

However, to be fair the final goal is stated as:
In the case there is no ability or skill in reading health information by looking at people, neither a paranormal skill or a cold reading skill, then the goal is to falsify such a non-ability at this stage of investigation so that elaborate tests need not be arranged for later on
So I think that should be recognised and applauded as fair enough.

One thing I would strongly recommend changing:
There will be no speaking between the volunteer and claimant and skeptic-4 during the time of the viewing.
There should be no speaking between the claimant and the volunteer AT ALL, certainly not before the viewing (they should not speak until at least after the written results have been collected)

To be honest, although this is in many ways not ideal, it actually has the potential to yield actual results we can look at.

It would be great if all (or at least part) of the study could be video recorded.
 
This is why I have no trust in her whatsoever. She specifically conducts things in a way where no conclusion can be drawn. Like the mall test, for example. Everyone knew the mall would say no. Of course they would. It just doesn't have to be complex - post something on craigslist, meet in a park, I can invent a thousand ways to do this off the top of my head.

But Anita, she specifically sets things up in a way where they're not going to happen, and if they do, are not going to yield any useful results. There's no need for all of this hoopla. Give me Anita, and 10 minutes, and I can clear this entire thing up.

Her crappy, useless, unscientific, childish, silly protocols are not a coincidence. It's deliberate, of course. But I'm not sure how that enters into a fantastical, and delusional state. Is she convincing herself that this is the way to do things, while at the same time coming up with ways which will prove nothing?

My curiosity with her apparent psychological disorder is morbid, I must admit. It's like watching the movie Identity.
 
I contacted the representative of a mall and presented the material relating to the study and asked for permission to conduct the study at their location. I received a negative reply which is not surprising considering the unconventional subject of the study regardless of how the study would be presented or planned out. For the time being I am choosing to not contact other commercial sites about having a study at their premises.

I've spoken with a staff member of the Charlotte Park and Recreation about whether I may have permission to conduct the study at a public area in Charlotte such as a street or park. I described the main aspects of the study and was told that the event falls under the category of "exhibition", which funnily enough he said is the same category if someone wants to display balloon animals (see my quote from logical muse below; I may be legally obligated to entertain them after all! *joke*). I expressed concern that the subject of my study may involve some possible moral or legal concerns since it involves people's health information and was told that I should forward this question to an attorney.

But in terms of what the study entails it is possible that I will obtain permission for conducting the study in a public area of the city. The documentation of the study will be sent later this evening to the Park and Recreation Department. I will send this Study Procedure Version 2, the text that will be placed on the sign, the health questionnaire that I am working on which will be finalized this evening and provided on my webpage at www.visionfromfeeling.com/study.html, as well as a letter designed for this purpose describing what is involved with the study, which will also be made available on my same webpage for those of you who are curiously inclined.
 
person-with-strange-ideas said:
I described the main aspects of the study and was told that the event falls under the category of "exhibition", which funnily enough he said is the same category if someone wants to display balloon animals (see my quote from logical muse below; I may be legally obligated to entertain them after all! *joke*).



Um, I don't "get it."


M.
 
Maybe you need to get someone from the Skeptics' Club to approach the various necessary officials for parks departments, malls, etc. It might go over better...
 
I contacted the representative of a mall and presented the material relating to the study and asked for permission to conduct the study at their location. I received a negative reply which is not surprising considering the unconventional subject of the study regardless of how the study would be presented or planned out. For the time being I am choosing to not contact other commercial sites about having a study at their premises.

First off, I told you they would say no. Second, it's not because of the nature of your study. It is because you are asking a business for permission to use their property for free in order to distract their paying customers from shopping.

I've spoken with a staff member of the Charlotte Park and Recreation about whether I may have permission to conduct the study at a public area in Charlotte such as a street or park. I described the main aspects of the study and was told that the event falls under the category of "exhibition", which funnily enough he said is the same category if someone wants to display balloon animals (see my quote from logical muse below; I may be legally obligated to entertain them after all! *joke*). I expressed concern that the subject of my study may involve some possible moral or legal concerns since it involves people's health information and was told that I should forward this question to an attorney.

You should not have contacted them. It is far better to ask for forgiveness than for permission. The very worst that will happen is that an officer asks you to stop doing what you are doing.

Why would you even mention "moral and legal concerns" - that is just stupid. All it does is make them suspicious of your real intentions. There are no moral concerns - nobody has to participate. There are no legal concerns since it is anonymous and voluntary. Are you trying to get them to say no?

This is America. If you want to go to a park and *talk* to people, you can do it. The government can only stop you if they have some compelling interest to do so. You're no different than a street preacher in that sense.

But as I said, it won't work. You're naive if you think strangers going to a park for their own reasons are going to stop what they are doing to divulge intimate medical details and spend 15 minutes being gawked at by some woman with shiny white hair.

You need to work with the skeptics group because they have an interest in debunking your claims. You can do it at the next meeting. While everyone else is attending the meeting, volunteers can take turns coming to visit you at your reading station.

Or you post an ad on Craigslist and solicit volunteers. Hundreds of people will see your ad, and a few just might be interested enough to volunteer.

Try listening to other people for a change. Then again, maybe I'm delusional for even suggesting that.
 
Last edited:
I received a negative reply which is not surprising considering the unconventional subject of the study regardless of how the study would be presented or planned out.

It has nothing to do with the "unconventional" subject. You are proposing to distract shoppers from spending money, for whatever purpose. No mall would say yes. Unca told you this before you even contacted the mall.*

*Translation: "The mall owners are afraid of woos.VfF"

For the time being I am choosing to not contact other commercial sites about having a study at their premises. VfF

"Other commercial sites are about as likely as the mall.Reality"

VisionFromFeeling said:
I expressed concern that the subject of my study may involve some possible moral or legal concerns since it involves people's health information and was told that I should forward this question to an attorney.

Oh, for heaven's sake. Even if anyone volunteers to be stared at, talking to people isn't illegal. And, hmmm, what happened to "I intend to talk to a legal representative (attorney or police officer)"? Isn't that what you said 900 pages ago? As well as "I plan to do a study within the skeptics group, as well."?

And, I hate to break the news to you, but there isn't a lawyer in this world who will advise you on the moral issues of anything. That isn't their job. Legalities, yes. Ethics, possibly, but only as they pertain to the legalities. See, that's why they are called law-yers, and not moral-yers.

More delays, dodging, etc. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
I leave this thread for an hour and come back to this craziness?

I contacted the representative of a mall and presented the material relating to the study and asked for permission to conduct the study at their location. I received a negative reply which is not surprising
What? It's not surprising to you your study was rejected? Then why even suggest it in the first place?
Lunacy. Sheer lunacy.

Nobody could even understand why you were so fixated on the mall anyway.
I guess now we know. Yet more delaying tactics.

For the time being I am choosing to not contact other commercial sites about having a study at their premises.
Duh! Really?

I've spoken with a staff member of the Charlotte Park and Recreation about whether I may have permission to conduct the study at a public area in Charlotte such as a street or park.
Layghable. Absolutely laughable.
Maybe you should contact your campus next time you want to walk along one of their paths.
Have you contacted the JREF directly to check if you can post in this thread?
Actually maybe you should have checked with the landlord of the building you met the skeptics in before doing the test with Wayne. Think of the potential ethical, legal, moral issues you might be involved in!

I expressed concern that the subject of my study may involve some possible moral or legal concerns since it involves people's health information and was told that I should forward this question to an attorney.
Absolutely inexplicable. It has no legal or moral concerns whatsoever.
I assume this simply all appeals to your sense of attention and exciting drama ("I'm in contact with Public agencies now as well as multiple skeptic groups. And I have been recommended to contact a lawyer! All because of my ability! It's so exciting!")
Either that or you are looking for yet another way to delay testing ("Can I run my test here? Oh by the way it might be illegal - is that a problem?")

Or, of course, both.

Just run it at the damn skeptics clubhouse. Run it in the park. Run it in the street. It really doesn't matter.
Anita - nobody cares. The authorities don't care whether you run it or not. The volunteers are giving voluntary time and information. There are no issues, just your ongoing attempts to delay.
Nobody cares.
Even this thread now is just amusement for us in watching how you will continue to evade proper testing, or how you will spin failed results.

Any other person on this thread could have already run this test now three times over. Anyone.
Anyone.

But in terms of what the study entails it is possible that I will obtain permission for conducting the study in a public area of the city.
Although you really hope you don't.

Then the list of people and organisations who are delaying or hampering you will include:
The Independent Investigations Group
The FACT Noisy skeptics
The owners of a Shopping Mall
The Charlotte Park and Recreation Department

Who's next I wonder? The Illuminati? Big Pharma? The CIA?

Frankly I am amazed anyone ever gets anything done in the world if asking questions in a public place is such a colossally big deal.

The documentation of the study will be sent later this evening to the Park and Recreation Department. I will send this Study Procedure Version 2, the text that will be placed on the sign, the health questionnaire that I am working on which will be finalized this evening and provided on my webpage at www.visionfromfeeling.com/study.html, as well as a letter designed for this purpose describing what is involved with the study, which will also be made available on my same webpage for those of you who are curiously inclined.
All of which is irrelevant as you are working your hardest to assure that you are refused even by public places that you have no earthly reason to contact.

I've tried. I really have. I have tried to take this claim at face value at least some of the time, but this was the post where it well and truly jumped the shark and Anita's motives became crystal clear.

It's obvious Anita knew full well the mall would never agree to the test. She even professes lack of surprise!
It very nearly looked like some form of study might happen, so she had to kick into delaying overdrive.
Contacting the authorities (and raising potential legal and moral issues with them for no reason!) and thus making it unnecessarily hard for her to even conduct her study in public is a quite breathtaking piece of delaying tactics.

You could simply do it with 5 skeptics in the room they regularly meet in!
Try it! Get some results!

If you fear getting hard results this much, take a long hard look at your motives.
The only person now who it is even possible might have their opinion changed about this fiasco is you. And that doesn't seem very likely.
 
Her crappy, useless, unscientific, childish, silly protocols are not a coincidence. It's deliberate, of course. But I'm not sure how that enters into a fantastical, and delusional state. Is she convincing herself that this is the way to do things, while at the same time coming up with ways which will prove nothing?

Basically...yeah. It's amazing the lengths a delusional will go to to maintain the delusion. I've worked with patient co-support groups over the years, and what some patients have cooked up was astonishing. Fake birth, death, burial records, photographs, and a long list of other things. This isn't much different. Anita will do whatever she can to appear to be putting together a valid study. Again, it's a "I said/wrote/thought/felt/remembered it, so it is so." mindset, even if there is no validity or rationality to whatever it is.
 
I leave this thread for an hour and come back to this craziness?

<snipped for brevity>

Just run it at the damn skeptics clubhouse. Run it in the park. Run it in the street. It really doesn't matter.
Anita - nobody cares. The authorities don't care whether you run it or not. The volunteers are giving voluntary time and information. There are no issues, just your ongoing attempts to delay.
Nobody cares.
Even this thread now is just amusement for us in watching how you will continue to evade proper testing, or how you will spin failed results.

Any other person on this thread could have already run this test now three times over. Anyone.
Anyone.

In this amount of time, I could have WALKED from Ottawa to Charlotte, which is about 1485 km (923 miles), done the tests, analyzed the results, disseminated the results to all, and walked back here again.

At least it is an entertaining thread, in a multi-vehicle accident with mutilated corpses sort of way. And quite educational. I know more about test procedures and mental illnesses related to delusional states than I ever did before.

We should create the VfF drinking game. Every time she says "ESP hasn't been falsified", you take a drink. Every time she claims someone is preventing her from doing a study / test, take a drink. The list could be quite long. :D
 
Yes, she raised these moral and legal concerns when I first came to this thread, and basically said, "Huh? What's all the fuss? Just go outside and when you spot a rare disorder, ask that person if it's true."

It's laughable how easy her claims would be to test, just laughable. If you have an ability, it shouldn't be so damn hard to prove you have it. If it is so damn hard, then it's a pretty damn useless ability!

If Anita had done as I had suggested, and those weren't even proper controlled conditions, she still would have been a hot news topic. She would have done so many interviews, and would have made so much money by now.

But alas, desertgal is right. Anita is delusional. She needs real help. Her mind will make up anything to get out of proving herself wrong. She is as kooky, and as woo as they come.
 
Her crappy, useless, unscientific, childish, silly protocols are not a coincidence. It's deliberate, of course. But I'm not sure how that enters into a fantastical, and delusional state. Is she convincing herself that this is the way to do things, while at the same time coming up with ways which will prove nothing?

I'll answer this a second time, because I was sitting here, trying to think of an analogy to Anita's case, and I remembered one.

Several years ago, I was in a co support group with a gal whose delusional reality revolved around her "marriage" to guitarist Eddie Van Halen. She had a "marriage license", she had wedding photographs (where, of course, she "wore" the same gown that Valerie Bertinelli wore when she married Van Halen), other photographs, even love letters that Van Halen "penned" to her.

Of course, she fooled no one, but that didn't affect her delusion. Everything she had concocted supported her delusional reality for her. Even the love letters-to her, they were in Van Halen's handwriting. That's what she saw when she looked at them. If anyone pointed out reality to her, she'd just maneuver around it - come up with another picture, or anecdote, or document.

The one thing she wouldn't do, though, was put herself in any situation that brought her into close physical proximity with Van Halen or Bertinelli. She went to several concerts, but avoided meet and greets, backstage visits, stage door crowds, personal appearances, etc. She knew, in that dark closet in her mind, that, if she did, the gig would be up, and the two realities would collide. (Van Halen and Bertinelli were fortunate in this case - she could have easily avoided that distinction and become a stalker.) She kept that delusional reality going for years with just the same kind of behavior that Anita is displaying here.

Just thought I'd describe that - it was so similar to Anita's case.

(No, it wasn't me, in case anyone was wondering. I'd have no problem saying if it were. And that gal is doing great today. She's not proud of that part of her life, but, with treatment, she understands how it happened.)
 
Thanks for sharing that, DG. It's fascinating, yet very scary at the same time. This does correlate strongly with what Anita is doing. She is fooling no-one, and yet she doesn't seem to care. She is simply oblivious.
 
Anita, please answer this simple question: Do you think it is reasonable that skeptics, people known to be leery of drawing conclusions without evidence (myself included), are seriously advising you to seek the help of a mental health professional?

Several people have been outspoken about this, myself included. Others I suspect simply haven't chimed in, but maybe they will given this opportunity. I don't think anyone is saying it to be mean or spiteful. There's a real concern here based on the tens of thousands of words you have written.

Even if you believe you have no mental health issues whatsoever, can you at least see how others might believe you do?
 
Desertgal,

Your insight into this has been extremely helpful. Thanks for sharing. I shared this before, but I'll share it again. Several years ago a couple of people suggested that I was in a depression, but I didn't see it. I took their advice and saw someone. Turns out I was. Popped a few pills and took better care of myself physically (exercise, eating), and now I'm all better. However, I'm still wary that it can happen again because there was probably at least one other time in my life when I was depressed and didn't know it.
 
For those of you who have expressed concern for my mental well-being, I can only thank you since I presume that it was done out of caring and with my best interest in mind, and also I need to seriously think about what reasons have emerged to make you feel this way.

Meanwhile I still contend that the visual and felt information I perceive from when I look at people are not in themselves any reason for concern. The perceptions of organs and tissue or of pain that I perceive when I see other people are on the same level as other impressions that form on their own in people's minds due to other things and association. Like when you look at a food and perceive as if you could taste it, or when you hear a familiar music you perceive the image of a memory, while that taste and that image are not as clear as what you perceive for real and you maintain a clear distinction between what is perceived directly from the outside world around you and those that appear merely in your own mind. Such are my medical perceptions, that they are more like impressions. The perceptions, in themselves, are no reason for concern.

I hold no automatic belief in the perceptions. I do not see these images transposed on the outside world. And unless the perceptions relay something serious such as heart pain, liver worms, or a serious case of cancer, the perceptions are never distracting or disturbing to my way of life or functioning as a person or in my work and studies. Mostly I only notice them when I choose to place attention to them.

The perceptions in themselves are not of interest to me. I realize that many people experience association to other things all the time in their life, seeing or feeling things around them produces automatic association that make us feel or see other things, and these are the kind of things that most of us keep private and have no reason to express to others.

The only reason I am conducting an investigation into my experience with the perceptions is due to the apparent correlation between my medical perceptions and with the actual health of persons. Although I do realize the unreliability that exists whenever a person decides to understand or to explore their own subjective experience, which is why I would probably not trust my own judgement alone when saying that I have experienced this correlation. This apparent accuracy has been established by other people as well, and by means in which I have no direct involvement or influence.

Based on that experience I have become curious about the apparent accuracy of my perceptions, and this curiosity comes not from my own choices or interpretations, but by what has been suggested to me by what takes takes place in the world around me and with other people.

Furthermore the way in which I deal with this inquiry into my perceptions shows to me that my approach to it also should not be reason of concern. I do not choose to blindly believe that I am perceiving accurate health information. I do not make any assumptions regarding my experience. I do not use my past experiences as evidence for anything. In all my intents this is a scientific investigation. Of course the upcoming study is not designed according to scientific test procedures nor are its objectives to be a test at this point.

I am fully prepared to accept the results of the investigation. My objective is to find out the truth behind the perceptions and their actual accuracy. I am prepared to find out that the actual accuracy is not after all as high as the accuracy has appeared to be in the past. For instance people might have been lying to me or simply mistaken about their health leading to a false impression of correlation but not due to me.

In case I am perceiving accurate health information, then I am of course open to discover that the information originates from cold reading. Perhaps I am using some skill without knowing it that translates external clues into corresponding health information. Personally I would find this conclusion to be equally as fascinating as a real case of extrasensory perception.

And do note, that extrasensory perception is somewhat on the bottom of my list of expected possibilities.

From the way in which I have conducted this investigation so far I see no reason for concern for my mental well-being. I have contacted two skeptics groups and taken in all of their advice and been fully conforming to their suggestions regarding how a test of my claimed experience should take place. And according to the suggestions of these skeptics I am now conducting a study into my experience. The purpose of the study of course is first of all to falsify a non-ability at this early stage, as well as to find out more about what are the kind of things that I claim to perceive, and what the correlation might be to how people perceive and know their own health. If the study reveals a significant extent of correlation between what I perceive and the actual health of persons then of course a paranormal test is an appropriate next step. The test would disable the possibility of cold reading to a far greater extent than what is available at the study, and would hopefully finally provide an answer as to how my perceptions come about.

I see nothing wrong with engaging in a scientific inquiry into an unusual experience. I am seeking a rational explanation to the apparent correlation that I have experienced.

The way in which this investigation is being done, should also not be of concern. I have consistently emphasized great care to ensure that none of the people who take part in my inquiry come to any harm, and even though many of you skeptics here at the JREF Forum have ridiculed my efforts of ensuring no harm, I have strongly and firmly encorporated all necessary care into the design of my investigation. It should be clear that I show great consideration for the possible legal, moral, ethical, and practical complications that may come about in a paranormal investigation that due to the mere subject of this inquiry is not only controversial and provocative to many, but due to involving health information of persons may involve possible harm if done in a careless way.

Of course it has already been a year and a half since I begun this investigation, but there are no intentional reasons for me to delay the progress of this investigation. There really have been practical difficulties and in combination with the careful approach that I adopt and my obligations with life and studies that have delayed the advance of this study.

I am not here seeking attention in fact it should be clear if viewed from an objective perspective that I have done what I can to avoid placing any attention on myself as a person and trying to ensure that focus remains on the subject of inquiry which is the medical perceptions and how to test their accuracy and source to see whether it correlates with what I have experienced.

I have noticed no delusional behavior on my part. And by the way, I did not make two incorrect perceptions on the recent study with one of the skeptics. I clearly concluded at the end of the viewing that I found no health problems, that all I felt was the adam's apple and a tired left shoulder, both to an extent that I deemed too insignificant to even mention as an ailment. A lot of the upset on this thread comes, I believe, from the deliberate intent to find something negative against me and from actual misinterpretation of what was said and done on my part.

Due to how anything I say here is treated by you skeptics I do have reason to doubt the value of some of your judgement. If you consider how I was treated after saying that I am from Sweden, that I am studying two B.S. degrees at the same time, that my family is not overly excited about my perceptions, and all other ordinary and trivial things and how you have reacted to these things, then I can not hold much value in your judgement in the more serious topics.

I have listened very carefully to most of what has been said here and I can safely conclude to myself that I find no reason for concern.

As to the other things that I may have expressed here that stir up some commotion among you. The reference to Arcturian heritage is not something I have stated as evidence or fact. To consider oneself a Star Person is a form of cultural identity, simply relating to interests and personal characteristics that are mutually not that common, such as a very caring and unselfish nature, interests in science, technology and spirituality, and relating to a concept of self and the world that is bigger than the current boundaries of our world. As for my experience of ghosts there is also no reason for concern (unless they push me off a chair).

I feel that much of the distress expressed by Forum members is due the delay in progress and their impatience with it. Clearly most of the criticism against me has been unfounded, and I feel that the recent upset about whether I am delusional is just the most recent expression of your complaining nature. There must always be something to argue about for you guys. Had I not offered to present evidence that I originate from Sweden we would probably still be arguing about that.

This investigation will yield final results, which I will adhere to. Unfortunately these results and conclusions are not available yet and can not be inferred by you guys analyzing what I have or have not said or your misinterpretations. Only once we have actual results of the study and or tests do we have definite material by which to deduce some sort of answer.

Once the results of this investigation become available, if it concludes that there is no significant correlation between my perceptions and actual health information then I will resume to what was before this investigation. Which is to occasionally perceive these impressions and as always to not worry about them or express them, but now with the knowledge that they are in fact not correlated with the outside mutual world regardless of what might seem.

The perceptions in themselves are not reason for concern in the way that I experience them. The way in which I handle my inquiry into what they are is also not reason for concern. There is no reason for concern. Just your impatience and your desire to find something to use against me and your dislike with how I have chosen to conduct this investigation.

Thank you for caring. Please let's wait for the results of the study which will clearly state what is going on, then let's see how I respond to the conclusions that can be drawn based on the results. If then there is an actual concern for my health revealed then I can take the steps necessary. But at this point I think I am doing just fine. :)
 
For those of you who have expressed concern for my mental well-being, I can only thank you since I presume that it was done out of caring and with my best interest in mind, and also I need to seriously think about what reasons have emerged to make you feel this way.
The content of your website, this thread, and others on other forums would suggest some "reasons." The fact you fail to understand this only lends credence to the belief you need help (assuming you are serious vs just playing a hoax).

Based on that experience I have become curious about the apparent accuracy of my perceptions, and this curiosity comes not from my own choices or interpretations, but by what has been suggested to me by what takes takes place in the world around me and with other people.
Apparent accuracy? Apparent as in if you fail to count everything you get wrong, miss, etc. and hold on to the occasional "nugget" of a possible hit...that accuracy? Case in point is this:

I have noticed no delusional behavior on my part. And by the way, I did not make two incorrect perceptions on the recent study with one of the skeptics. I clearly concluded at the end of the viewing that I found no health problems, that all I felt was the adam's apple and a tired left shoulder, both to an extent that I deemed too insignificant to even mention as an ailment. A lot of the upset on this thread comes, I believe, from the deliberate intent to find something negative against me and from actual misinterpretation of what was said and done on my part.
You clearly listed/identified such things as "tired left shoulder", for example, fishing for a hit. You also missed the biggie...the scar tissue related to diaphram; you've stated very clearly here that you can "see" scar tissue, it appears "different" - you failed to notice it.

Yes...you have apparent accuracy if you make vague claims that can not be validated, or fail to count misses.

Due to how anything I say here is treated by you skeptics I do have reason to doubt the value of some of your judgement. If you consider how I was treated after saying that I am from Sweden, that I am studying two B.S. degrees at the same time, that my family is not overly excited about my perceptions, and all other ordinary and trivial things and how you have reacted to these things, then I can not hold much value in your judgement in the more serious topics.
Your conduct here has been intellectually dishonest and condescending. You are to busy playing scientist...that is to say you are acting just as someone who watches to much TV thinks a scientist conducts the business of science.

If anything, you have been received far more help/attention/assistance in your quest then someone who has conducted themselves as you have deserve.

Case in point, by your own account...you've told 3 of your professors, and none of them seem the least bit motivated to help you? A student declares a never before seen/documented ability and their collective response it "meh"?

Please seek professional help; it costs you nothing, does you no harm, and you'll be better for it.

I have listened very carefully to most of what has been said here and I can safely conclude to myself that I find no reason for concern.
A Doctor that treats themselves has a fool for a patient.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom