Eugenie C. Scott Tackles Bigfoot

[Cleon]

Until we find a full body, the inferencing is blatantly ridicolous.

No, it isn't "ridicolous," as much as you'd like to think so.

It's very simple. We have no reason to believe Gigantopithecus was bipedal. At all. Period. If you have information suggesting bipedalism, present it.

It's very telling that you refuse to do so.

How would we know its ancestors if we dont have its dna to put on the tree of life?

Wow.

OK.

Look, we've reached a point where your complete lack of knowledge about this subject has reached a critical fail. In the above post, you are confidently declaring that you know absolutely nothing about physical anthropology.

I'm not exaggerating. Nothing.

I mean this very seriously: you need to, at a minimum, read a book on basic physical anthropology. Better, take a class on the subject.

How scientists study physical remains, and determine relationships between species (among other things), is way beyond what I have the time and patience to explain to you. More, I get the very distinct impression that you simply don't want to know how the science works, because that may call into doubt the conclusions you have clearly already reached.

 

[Correa Neto]

Correa, the far right bf image is gigantopithecus.

A bit of research would be enough for you to know that both images at the right upper corner show renderings of gigantopithecus, supposed most likely to have been a knuckle-walker, standing in two feet just like apes can do.

What proof does ciochon have thats it a knuckle walker? Because its large? So was trex, but they walked on 2 feet

What evidences do you have that they were not?
What evidences do you have that they are related to bigfeet?
I bet they are much weaker than anything Ciochon has. BTW, cared to do any research on Ciochon`s work? Noticed gigantopithecus` habitat? Noticed the evidence and reasonings he exposes? Noticed his opinion about bigfoot?

Makaya, please, think a bit outside the footer box and do some research before posting...
Carnosaurs had a "body design" completely different from apes. They were bipedal, but their bipedalism followed a different solution - their bodies were disposed horizontally (tail serving as counterweight for balance) and the legs, located in the middle of the body. A good model for a cranosaur would be a bridge with pillars in the middle. Bipedal apes (australopithecines, homo and bigfeet- assuming they are real) have a completely different set up. Our body and legs are disposed straight up, along a vertical line.
See? It was an invalid comparison.

Now, we could discuss the evolutionary pros and cons of bipedalism and large size on apes and it could be very interesting. However, with the current quality level of the arguments you present, it would probably be a waste of time. Please sharpen your arguments before posting and try to avoid getting caught in contradictions. For example, check this first claim of yours...

Gigantopithecus would be bf, and no, it wasnt a quadraped, and if you claim it is, prove it

Which was followed by

Well, cleon, skeptics say " giganto was to big to be a biped". But t-rex, 5 tons of it, was a biped, so why cant giganto be one? Unless we have dna of giganto, estimating its locomotion is pseudoscience

and

Until we find a full body, the inferencing is blatantly ridicolous.

How would we know its ancestors if we dont have its dna to put on the tree of life?

Makaya, have you noticed this means your bipedalism claim is pseudoscience and "blatantly ridicolous"?

Not to mention that DNA will not give you an answer on bipedalism, unless its result places it in to the homo genus and that a placement of a species on the "tree of life" can be inferred by its anatomy.

Please, inform yourself and don`t be carried away by emotion, enthusiasm and beliefs - let the reliable evidence and the sound, well-backed reasonings carry you forward. This advice is also valid for many a cryptoenthusiast who happens to lurk at this forum...

 

[GT/CS]

Until we find a full body, the inferencing is blatantly ridicolous.

How would we know its ancestors if we dont have its dna to put on the tree of life?

Mak, you really need to think a little before you post.

I understand you're a kid and probably don't remember when DNA testing was not available but your so called, "tree of life" was drawn up long before such testing existed. How did they do that?

 

[Drewbot]

How would we know its ancestors if we dont have its dna to put on the tree of life?

Dude...

Where are you getting this? is someone feeding you responses? if they are, I hope you are not paying them.

Darwins theory of evolution is worthless without DNA??

Teddy Roosevelt in the early 1900s knew that Jaguars and Leopards had Melanism, but Cougars/Pumas did not. How do you think they knew this without DNA?

 

[Correa Neto]

Simple. Time travellers told them about these stuff.

 

[xblade]

Speaking of dinosaurs...

"Ystesund and a girlfriend were driving down this road the night of July 5. She says a creature ran in front of the headlights, a very big lizard, nearly vertical, running on its hind legs.

"We were, you know, freaked out. Immediately we thought it was some kind of dinosaur or a huge lizard. So we came home," she says. "

 

[makaya325]

There are no bones of The giant 10ft ape living in the 10000's pretty recent. Amazing of how rare they are. We dont knoe its place on the tree of life, we just assume it is. There are alot of hominids left to be discovered.

 

[desertyeti]

There are no bones of The giant 10ft ape living in the 10000's pretty recent. Amazing of how rare they are. We dont knoe its place on the tree of life, we just assume it is. There are alot of hominids left to be discovered.

 

[Drewbot]

There are no bones of The giant 10ft ape living in the 10000's pretty recent. Amazing of how rare they are. We dont knoe its place on the tree of life, we just assume it is. There are alot of hominids left to be discovered.

Creekf- Errrr... Makaya, if we had a body, and no ability to DNA test it, we would still be able to label it as a monotype, or as part of another family.

 

[makaya325]

Creekf- Errrr... Makaya, if we had a body, and no ability to DNA test it, we would still be able to label it as a monotype, or as part of another family.

Not exactly. DNA is 100% reliable. It can put Gigantopithecus being related to an orangutan, or human?

My personal belief is that Gigantopithecus resembled King Kong. I just get fed up when people say "It MUST be bipedal".

Tell me: Since humans are heavier than orangutans, but walk bipedally, why dont orangutans, which are lighter, walk up right? I have read that orangutans dont knuckle walk, but at the same time, not bipedal?

 

[Cleon]

Not exactly. DNA is 100% reliable.

Eh? No, it isn't. It's reliable to a large degree, but 100%? No.

It can put Gigantopithecus being related to an orangutan, or human?

So can a detailed examination of morphology, diet, location, time period, environment, context, etc.

My personal belief is that Gigantopithecus resembled King Kong.

Uh, do you mean the 1933 King Kong, the 1976 King Kong, or the 2005 King Kong? Or the silly version Toho used in the 60s for King Kong Escapes and King Kong vs. Godzilla?

Either way, what on Earth do you base that "personal belief" on?

I just get fed up when people say "It MUST be bipedal".

The only people saying that is...Well, you.

Tell me: Since humans are heavier than orangutans,

Well, that's wrong already. Male orangutans are (on average) heavier than modern humans, reaching as much as (IIRC) 300 lbs. (Orangutans are highly sexually dimorphic; females tend to be lighter than humans.)

but walk bipedally, why dont orangutans, which are lighter, walk up right?

Because evolution doesn't happen just for the hell of it!

It's not a question of "species X is light enough, so bipedalism must develop." There has to be a selecting factor for a trait to develop. A trait develops, and becomes predominant, when environmental factors make it advantageous for the species to adopt that trait.

And remember, it's not just a matter of getting up on their hind feet and walking--bipedalism requires a significant change in muscle and skeletal structure.

I have read that orangutans dont knuckle walk, but at the same time, not bipedal?

Sort of. Orangutans are primarily tree-dwellers, so they've largely adapted for moving through trees, not over land. Their arms are much longer than their legs, making them perfectly suited for swinging and climbing - but not so much for knuckle-walking. So when they do move on land, they shuffle themselves along using the palms of their hands; it's not knuckle-walking, but it's a far cry from bipedalism.

 

[LTC8K6]

My personal belief is that Gigantopithecus resembled King Kong.

Mighty Joe Young maybe,....but not King Kong.

 

[makaya325]

Mighty Joe Young maybe,....but not King Kong.

lt, thats awesome! We have proof of a 10ft monster 600k years ago.

 

[LTC8K6]

Kong could throw Giganto a considerable distance, I'd guess...

How Tall is Kong?
Posters advertise King Kong as being 50 feet high. This is an exaggeration to help sell movie tickets. In reality, Kong was much smaller. For the scenes on Skull Island, Kong is made to appear eighteen feet high. This height was appropriate for the sequences where Kong interacts with Fay Wray. Merian C. Cooper, the producer, felt that an eighteen foot high Kong was too small for the New York sequences compared to the giant skyscrapers there and ordered Kong's height changed to twenty-four feet high for those sequences. Most viewers of the film never notice the change in Kong's height.
While trying to sell his film project King Kong vs. Frankenstein, Willis O'Brien gave Kong's measurements as Height 19'-8", Weight 38 tons, Reach 27', Chest 17', Waist 11', and neck 9'

 

[makaya325]

Kong could throw Giganto a considerable distance, I'd guess...

Kong isnt that friendly. Heres a convo btwn me and him

Me: So kong, you know you have rent?

Kong: Me no pay rent! I kill you!

Me: Just because your wife left you bc of your ugly mother in law, dont take it out on me!

Kong: Ok! Just let me work out the bill

 

[makaya325]

Kong could throw Giganto a considerable distance, I'd guess...

Lt, wasnt mighty joe young very different from the quadraped gigantopithecus? ( Yes, im aware!)

Ciochon states that it looked more like a large orangutan than a gorilla? Is it reasonable to assume that it Would have resembled an obese orang?

Kitz, i attended a lecture on the hobbit find at my local library. The lecturer, from stony brook, says that its a very real possibility that The hobbit might have inspired tales in indonesia!

Do any of you suggest its possible that early man saw giganto on its hind legs, and based that on bigfoot legends? Kind of like a real life boggy man?

 

[Cleon]

Lt, wasnt mighty joe young very different from the quadraped gigantopithecus? ( Yes, im aware!)

Ciochon states that it looked more like a large orangutan than a gorilla? Is it reasonable to assume that it Would have resembled an obese orang?

What is the basis for that assumption? Where does the "obese" part come from?

Kitz, i attended a lecture on the hobbit find at my local library. The lecturer, from stony brook, says that its a very real possibility that The hobbit might have inspired tales in indonesia!

Homo floresiensis, the "hobbit" (insert Sideshow Bob-like grumble here), was an extremely recent relative, dying out about 12,000 years ago. (Not including contemporary stories/legends, which probably won't pan out.)

The possibility is there, though, and it's definitely intriguing.

Do any of you suggest its possible that early man saw giganto on its hind legs, and based that on bigfoot legends? Kind of like a real life boggy man?

I don't think you quite understand the scope of the time periods we're talking about, here.

Gigantopithecus was last around about 300,000 years ago. This is 100,000 years before homo sapiens even existed. We don't even know for sure to what extent our ancestors at the time were able to speak, if at all.

Hundreds of thousands of years is a long, long time for a meme like that to stick around, notwithstanding the question of to what extent they could spread it in the first place.

 

[kitakaze]

Until we find a full body, the inferencing is blatantly ridicolous.

How would we know its ancestors if we dont have its dna to put on the tree of life?

 

[Crowlogic]

I've noticed a pattern on this forum. Seems the discussion usually involves one person of opposing view that then jousts with 5, 6 or 7 members of the prevailing view. So far Makaya325's journey through JREF land has gone pretty much as I suspected it would. However I'm somewhat impressed with the young man's/woman's tenacity. After all he/she is facing odds of 7 to 1 and hasn't flinched. So if it takes 7 hardboiled skeptics to subdue one fallow youth what would happen if you all had to engage the opposing views with something resembling even odds?

 

[LTC8K6]

So far, makaya is self-subdueing, crow.

if you all had to engage the opposing views with something resembling even odds?

Like at the BFF?

Most pro-bigfoot places seem to severely restrict or ban skeptics, and most bigfoot proponents can't hold up their end of the log here.

But none of that matters, crow. It's not like you don't know all of this already.