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Moderated Steel structures cannot globally collapse due to gravity alone

Heiwa said:
Well, drop a steel structure using gravity only on a similar steel structure and see what happens! I assure you that no global collapse of the latter structure ensues. This experiment can also be simulated by FEA software.

Do you have a steel structure at home? Of course you have - your car. You have a car, I assume. Now, put it on the roof of your garage (I assume you have a garage) and put your wife's car below. Now push your car off the garage roof, so it crashes down due to gravity on your wife's car. Ensure that your wife is not sitting in her car, and avoid sitting in your own car during the experiment.

Does your wife's car globally collapse while your car remains intact? Or were there only local failures and global collapse was arrested? Or your wife's car was crushed down first, and your car was later detsroyed in a 'crush up'?

PS Car insurance does not pay for this type of experimental damages.
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Roof not able to handle car's weight so it crashed thru causing global collapse so your experiment refutes you.
 
Lennart Hyland said:
Actully the lead designer of WTC, Leslie Robertson debated this on a radio show against Steven Jones :)

And ofcourse he made Jones look silly. :)
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I disagree, no one made Jones look silly, he is a self-made man.
 
CORed said:
I'd explain scaling and the square-cube law to you, but I'm sure you wouldn't understand.
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Tried, tested, have the link to it in my signature permanently... it didn't have any effect...
 
CORed said:
Yeah. Somehow, I kind of doubt he actually performed the car experiment, or that he'd get the results he expects if he did.
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290px-Matchbox-Y8A-Morris.jpg
 
Heiwa said:
Do you have a steel structure at home? Of course you have - your car. You have a car, I assume. Now, put it on the roof of your garage (I assume you have a garage) and put your wife's car below. Now push your car off the garage roof, so it crashes down due to gravity on your wife's car.
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A... motor... vehicle... is... not... a... skyscraper.

Jeebus... I spend two hours every wednesday night with a group of rambunctious cub scouts and I don't have to explain crap like this to them.

Are you not smarter than a cub scout, Heiwa?

Heiwa said:
Ensure that your wife is not sitting in her car, and avoid sitting in your own car during the experiment.
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Did you deduce this or learn the hard way?
 
Heiwa said:
It is much we foreigners do not understand about US. You elect a new president ... and then it takes 11 weeks to change president. Here it takes 1 day. Or the US banks. They lend money at 1% interest! But where does it come from? China? OK, before stupid Americans saved money in the bank and recieved 3% interest and could borrow the same money back at 6%, then they saved money at the bank at 0% and it was stolen ... and nobody reacts!
Like the WTC collapses. Steel structures cannot globally collapse due to gravity alone ... and when they explode in mid-air, US experts confirm this happens every time. No need to analyse in depth! You do not need carrots or sticks or deception to run such a country. Luckily it will not last much longer. Bye, bye, USA!


Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
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Heiwa you are correct about steel structures. But don't attack America. Most of the people you debate here probably aren't even American. If there were to be a future investigation that discovered that there were parts of the “US Government” complicit in the 9/11 attacks then they wouldn’t really be true Americans. They would be traitors and infiltrators. They would be the same kind of invisible enemy that we are told we are fighting now.
 
Homeland Insurgency said:
Heiwa you are correct about steel structures. But don't attack America. Most of the people you debate here probably aren't even American. If there were to be a future investigation that discovered that there were parts of the “US Government” complicit in the 9/11 attacks then they wouldn’t really be true Americans. They would be traitors and infiltrators. They would be the same kind of invisible enemy that we are told we are fighting now.
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LOL. This is great. How do you come up with this stuff? You are defending a guy, who if he even is an engineer is the most incompetent engineer in the world. He compares the WTC to tables, cars, pizza boxes, mathboxes, jumping on bathroom scales, ect. He says WTC7 was destroyed in part from under pressure created by burning thermite.

Then you somehow totally shift the topic to some stupid rant.

But please continue to defend Heiwa. He needs it. You are probably the only other person in the world that thinks he knows what he is talking about.
 
For a guy who continues claiming he and everybody else hasn't the slightest clue what happened on 911 he certainly seems to be certain that he knows it had to be an inside job for the towers to come down...
 
Heiwa said:
PS Car insurance does not pay for this type of experimental damages.
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You know, you're right. I checked my policy, and it does not cover idiotic experiments to try to prove loony-tune 9/11 conpiracy theories. That proves the insurance companies were part of the conspiracy and are trying to suppress the evidence
 
Heiwa said:
No, I just say that local failures (eg due local heating, weakining of a part, bolt or weld failures) in a steel structure do not produce global collapse of the complete structure (at free fall acceleration). Local failures only produce load transfers and higher stressed and maybe deformed, adjacent parts and further destruction is arrested. It is called redundancy. I have explained it at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/nist7.htm ; remove a complete, internal column and assume that the load carried by this column is transferred to adjacent columns, the complete load transfer increases stresses in adjacent columns only from 30 to 37.5 % yield stress. No way that adjacent, intact structure will fail and start a global collapse due to a serious, local failure in one part! And it applies to all similar steel structures.
I wonder (in other threads) how NIST could produce its report of WTC7. The software used by NIST can only do static analysis and it seems the analysis is wrong at step 1; the first local failure and associated load transfers. So the NIST report is just propaganda. ASCE should protest, but they lack moral fibre, it seems.
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Heiwa claims that if you remove a column in a building it will stand up, because the adjacent columns are not very highly stressed, compared to their ultimate capacity, which is true.

However if the beams were simple corbel details then there is no way to get the load to the adjacent columns and you would get a local collapse of the bays either side of the columns.

If the joints were sound and able to take the rotation, then they would act like a catenary and transfer the load to the adjacent floors. The horizontal force causes a horizontal movement as well as a vertical load transfer.

The performance therefore depends on as much how the floors are designed and detailed, as how the columns are designed and detailed.
 
Here's an experiment for you Heiwa: Take one of your ships and stand it up on its stern with the bow way up in the sky about 1000 feet or so (Ship not long enough? Bolt another one on to the top.) then punch a big hole into the hull, about two thirds of the way up, with an airplane. Make sure the airplane is traveling fast, has lots of fuel and that the ships have plenty of combustables on board.

Think it might collapse?
 
Brainache said:
Here's an experiment for you Heiwa: Take one of your ships and stand it up on its stern with the bow way up in the sky about 1000 feet or so (Ship not long enough? Bolt another one on to the top.) then punch a big hole into the hull, about two thirds of the way up, with an airplane. Make sure the airplane is traveling fast, has lots of fuel and that the ships have plenty of combustables on board.

Think it might collapse?
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Too complicated. Try this. You, or rather your right foot (or left, your choice), shall kick a mass on the ground ... e.g. a foot ball. So you kick ... and the football was not a foot ball full of air ... but cement. What happens? Any ideas?
 
Heiwa said:
Too complicated. Try this. You, or rather your right foot (or left, your choice), shall kick a mass on the ground ... e.g. a foot ball. So you kick ... and the football was not a foot ball full of air ... but cement. What happens? Any ideas?
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Football schmussball!!

This is as stupid an analogy as all your pizza boxes, cars and ships, as those behave nothing like the Twin Towers. And you claim you are an engineer?
 
Heiwa said:
Too complicated. Try this. You, or rather your right foot (or left, your choice), shall kick a mass on the ground ... e.g. a foot ball. So you kick ... and the football was not a foot ball full of air ... but cement. What happens? Any ideas?
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If you're going to set up a ridiculously stupid analogy couldn't you have at least said cement vs cement in an attempt to make it ever so slightly more relevant?
 
Architect said:
And how did the wife take the whole thing?
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Well since her car was still in the garage she was less than happy.

I pleaded insanity and she bought it!!

Gotta go now, there are some people here in white coats that are very insistent.
 
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