If Al Qaeda Planned 9/11...

Brainster said:
They definitely planned on getting the second tower strike broadcast live; Flight 175's detour over New Jersey was to make sure that all the cameras in the NY area were trained on the WTC when it hit.
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They may planned,but long delay can be fatal to operation.As Ihaunter said.Flight 93 showed that.Futher delay might give army enough time to send some fighters (armed) for interception.
 
I'd have thought expecting to reach the Pentagon would have been a pipe dream for OBL? If anyone was asked prior to 9/11 what the chances were of a jet being flown into one of the USA's most important buildings, I bet the replies would have been "They wouldn't get within a mile of the place!".

For the amount of damage it did, from OBL's pov, wouldn't it have been better crashing another plane in NY?

Is OBL a ruthlessly fanatical enemy intent on creating maximum casualties, or a media savvy genius who knows just when to rein it in?

Answers on a postcard to :-
 
What's so hard about crashing a plane into the Pentagon? It is one of the largest, most recognizable buildings in the world and is right next to a major airport.

And it wasn't just about killing as many people as they could either. They chose the Pentagon because it is the headquarters of the military.
 
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Ragnarok said:
I'd have thought expecting to reach the Pentagon would have been a pipe dream for OBL? If anyone was asked prior to 9/11 what the chances were of a jet being flown into one of the USA's most important buildings, I bet the replies would have been "They wouldn't get within a mile of the place!".
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No, prior to 9/11, the idea of deliberately flying jets into large buildings would have been unthinkable. I distinctly recall watching news footage of the second strike and the reporter instantly assuming it was a second tragic accident, and wondering if there had been some major malfunction with the air traffic control. It didn't occur to him until later that the crashes may have been intentional.

It was only after 9/11 did people realize just how far the terrorists werew willing to go.
 
Hokulele said:
No, prior to 9/11, the idea of deliberately flying jets into large buildings would have been unthinkable.
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If it was unthinkable "prior to 9/11" why were terrorists thinking it (Operation Bojinka), the US state setting up defences against it (Genoa) and running a drill about it (Pentagon)?

The US also received other warnings before 911 that al Qaeda appeared to be planning to hijack domestic aircraft to use missiles.
 
JihadJane said:
If it was unthinkable "prior to 9/11" why were terrorists thinking it (Operation Bojinka), the US state setting up defences against it (Genoa) and running a drill about it (Pentagon)?

The US also received other warnings before 911 that al Qaeda appeared to be planning to hijack domestic aircraft to use missiles.
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You need to get you facts straight.

Bojinka was a plot to blow up airliners over the Pacific. It had nothing to do with crashing them into buildings.

What's Genoa? I would hate to think you're making crap up.

The drills at the Pentagon were for a plane accidentally crashing there. It is, after all right next to an airport.

I would love to see proof that the US received warnings that al Qaeda was planning to hijack domestic airliners to use as missiles.
 
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Oh, for cripes sake, JJ. The PDB has been discussed a hundred times here. It didn't contain specific enough information to be actionable, as you well know. And the Pentagon is within a couple of miles of a major airport. It's not unimaginable that a plane in distress might crash into it, which was the idea of the MASCAL exercise, which I'd also wager you know.

Terrorists are creative. They're thinking up other means of attack even as we type, no doubt. Since the hijacking thing is pretty much out the window, they'll come up with something else. And we'll come up with a countermeasure. And on and on it'll go.

ETA; Ah, dtugg beat me to this particular piece of low-hanging fruit.
 
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JihadJane said:
If it was unthinkable "prior to 9/11" why were terrorists thinking it (Operation Bojinka), the US state setting up defences against it (Genoa) and running a drill about it (Pentagon)?

The US also received other warnings before 911 that al Qaeda appeared to be planning to hijack domestic aircraft to use missiles.
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Once again, you show your ignorance. This time in geography un less you are speaking of Genoa Nevada or Genoa Illinois. Or could it be you are speaking about Genoa in a different country on a different continent in a different hemisphere? Next time, please think before saying something that exposes your lack of intelligence.
 
jhunter1163 said:
Oh, for cripes sake, JJ. The PDB has been discussed a hundred times here. It didn't contain specific enough information to be actionable, as you well know. And the Pentagon is within a couple of miles of a major airport. It's not unimaginable that a plane in distress might crash into it, which was the idea of the MASCAL exercise, which I'd also wager you know.

Terrorists are creative. They're thinking up other means of attack even as we type, no doubt. Since the hijacking thing is pretty much out the window, they'll come up with something else. And we'll come up with a countermeasure. And on and on it'll go.

ETA; Ah, dtugg beat me to this particular piece of low-hanging fruit.
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Terrorists watch movies too. Next attack will be simultaneous snakes on a few planes. Since there is only one Samuel Jackson, the evil plan's success is guaranteed. :)
 
~enigma~ said:
Terrorists watch movies too. Next attack will be simultaneous snakes on a few planes. Since there is only one Samuel Jackson, the evil plan's success is guaranteed. :)
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Best. Movie. EVER.

"I have HAD it with these mother(rule10)in' snakes on this mother(rule10)in' plane!"

The only way it could have been improved is with a cameo from Harrison Ford, sitting in an airline seat and saying "Why does it always have to be snakes?"
 
So, given it was thought up in a cave by some Muslim fanatics, do you think the conversation would have got round to expectations from the plane impacts? Do you think they considered whether the towers would turn into burning infernos and tumble to the ground? And how pathetic it might look if it just caused minimum deaths and serious inconvenience. Do you think it was part of their plans that emergency crews would be unable to deal with the blaze, due to the height? Has OBL made the details of these talks available in any official publication to glorify the actions of that day?
 
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As a matter of fact, OBL did say that he didn't expect the towers to collapse. That they did was an unexpected bonus for Al Qaeda.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have to say that one of the people who died in the WTC that day was a close friend of mine. I'm not going to comment any further because it'd just get sent to AAH anyway and probably get me an infraction.
 
Hokulele said:
No, prior to 9/11, the idea of deliberately flying jets into large buildings would have been unthinkable. I distinctly recall watching news footage of the second strike and the reporter instantly assuming it was a second tragic accident, and wondering if there had been some major malfunction with the air traffic control. It didn't occur to him until later that the crashes may have been intentional.

It was only after 9/11 did people realize just how far the terrorists werew willing to go.
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This is staggeringly incorrect. First, this unnamed reporter must be some kind of an idiot because nearly everyone had the same "a ha" moment when the second plane hit that this was no accident, this was a terrorist attack.

Secondly, and much more importantly, there is a long list of references that official agencies were not only aware that such an attack could occur, but had discussed, planned for and created exercises around just such an event.

In fact, the 9/11 Commission Report addresses several of these circumstances. Before you tell me to post all of the various references, please consider doing a good amount of research on the subject. This info is extremely easy to find and quite specific. Unfortunately, debunkers debunk, or at least try to. There is no mea culpa in your language, no "my bad", no "I never knew that". This is the difference between debunking and research.
 
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Ragnarok said:
So, given it was thought up in a cave by some Muslim fanatics, do you think the conversation would have got round to expectations from the plane impacts? Do you think they considered whether the towers would turn into burning infernos and tumble to the ground? And how pathetic it might look if it just caused minimum deaths and serious inconvenience. Do you think it was part of their plans that emergency crews would be unable to deal with the blaze, due to the height? Has OBL made the details of these talks available in any official publication to glorify the actions of that day?
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You do realize that even if the towers didn't collapse, it still would have been by far the worst terrorist attack on American soil, ever, right genius? And that there was the added bonus of hundreds of thousands of people seeing the second plane hit person and millions live on TV to their sheer terror, right, genius?
 
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RedIbis said:
This is staggeringly incorrect. First, this unnamed reporter must be some kind of an idiot because nearly everyone had the same "a ha" moment when the second plane hit that this was no accident, this was a terrorist attack.

Secondly, and much more importantly, the long list of references that official agencies were not only aware that such an attack could occur, but had discussed, planned for and created exercises around just such an event.

In fact, the 9/11 Commission Report addresses several of these circumstances. Before you tell me to post all of the various references, please consider doing a good amount of research on the subject. This info is extremely easy to find and quite specific. Unfortunately, debunkers debunk, or at least try to. There is no mea culpa in your language, no "my bad", no "I never knew that". This is the difference between debunking and research.
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You're a MIHOPer so stop trying to argue stuff that would be in the LIHOP or incompetence camp.

And please show me the plans and exercises created for the scenario of a hijacked jet being turned into a missile.
 
~enigma~ said:
Once again, you show your ignorance. This time in geography un less you are speaking of Genoa Nevada or Genoa Illinois. Or could it be you are speaking about Genoa in a different country on a different continent in a different hemisphere? Next time, please think before saying something that exposes your lack of intelligence.
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July, 2001. Genoa Italy. A meeting of world leaders in which the Pentagon provided modern air defense and President Bush slept off-shore on a US Navy warship.


In the same time-frame, AG Ashcroft was told not to fly commercial flights, reportedly by his security detain. Cite on request.

As of the summer of 2001, there was plenty of warning that something was about to happen, just not how and where or precisely when. In Spying Blind by Amy Zegart, the author shows 12 lines of investigation that separate FBI offices were working that all related to the events of 9/11. If these investigations had all been watched from one FBI office, it is very possible that the events of 9/11 could have been disrupted or prevented.
 
BigAl said:
As of the summer of 2001, there was plenty of warning that something was about to happen, just not how and where or precisely when. In Spying Blind by Amy Zegart, the author shows 12 lines of investigation that separate FBI offices were working that all related to the events of 9/11. If these investigations had all been watched from one FBI office, it is very possible that the events of 9/11 could have been disrupted or prevented.
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Very true. Anyone remember what the big news story was in the summer of 2001? I do. Shark attacks in Florida!
 
dtugg said:
You're a MIHOPer so stop trying to argue stuff that would be in the LIHOP or incompetence camp.

And please show me the plans and exercises created for the scenario of a hijacked jet being turned into a missile.
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Before I embarass you, why don't you see if you can find it for yourself. A lot of the so called "debunkers" hate this exercise, but I assure you the info is easy to find.
 
Ragnarok said:
If anyone was asked prior to 9/11 what the chances were of a jet being flown into one of the USA's most important buildings, I bet the replies would have been "They wouldn't get within a mile of the place!".
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Planes routinely come "within a mile" of the Pentagon. Reagan National Airport is right next door...
 
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