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The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

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Patterson was supposed to be riding his dinky little horse named Peanuts. Gimlin later admitted to be riding Heironimus' horse which was a big thing named Chico. In articles and stories Gimlin refers to it at "his" horse.
 
Maybe Bob H got a little of that Mad Bronco effect in that suit
That might be the cause of his recollections to falter...
He may have bit that stirrup in a fit of rage after .
 



The 2 skeletons in those images do not match each other....therefore the overlays are completely meaningless.

If you overlay Bob Heironimus directly over Patty....their body dimensions, and proportions do not match-up. Their body proportions are significantly different....especially their chest/shoulder widths.
That has been shown very clearly, earlier in this thread.


I'm in the process of putting together a padded upper-body suit, to replicate Patty's extreme upper-body (chest and shoulder) width....and I'm pretty sure it'll show that there is absolutely NO way such an extreme amount of padding (approx. 6-8 inches added to the total chest width) could allow the arm to swing as freely and naturally as Patty's does, without having clearly distorted outlines to the upper arms.

I happen to be the exact same height as Bob Heironimus...6' 0", and close to the same build...(minus the beer belly)...so I'll make an excellent subject for simulating how Bob H. would have looked if he actually was a padded-out monstrosity caught on film.
 
I'm in the process of putting together a padded upper-body suit, to replicate Patty's extreme upper-body (chest and shoulder) width....and I'm pretty sure it'll show that there is absolutely NO way such an extreme amount of padding (approx. 6-8 inches added to the total chest width) could allow the arm to swing as freely and naturally as Patty's does, without having clearly distorted outlines to the upper arms.


Don't forget to use football shoulder pads.
 
I'm in the process of putting together a padded upper-body suit, to replicate Patty's extreme upper-body (chest and shoulder) width....and I'm pretty sure it'll show that there is absolutely NO way such an extreme amount of padding (approx. 6-8 inches added to the total chest width) could allow the arm to swing as freely and naturally as Patty's does, without having clearly distorted outlines to the upper arms.

I happen to be the exact same height as Bob Heironimus...6' 0", and close to the same build...(minus the beer belly)...so I'll make an excellent subject for simulating how Bob H. would have looked if he actually was a padded-out monstrosity caught on film.

Good luck with that. These look just fine to me:



GooGooGaaGaa2.jpg
 
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Why? Did Bob H. say that the "suit" used them?

Oh, I wouldn't worry about that. Just make sure your replica costume looks exactly like Patty. Use the same materials and contruction design as the original so that nobody can accuse you of not actually replicating the costume.
 
Oh, I wouldn't worry about that. Just make sure your replica costume looks exactly like Patty. Use the same materials and contruction design as the original so that nobody can accuse you of not actually replicating the costume.

Who do you think you're talking to Bill Munns? Since the actual materials are unknown it is unreasonable to insist that identical materials be used. The use of materials that will replicate the appearance of the PGF subject is reasonable to expcet in spite of not knowing the specifics. However if you know the specific materials why not drop Sweaty a line and point him in the right direction. If not well all anyone can do is the best they can.
 
You need to think critically, Crow. If Sweaty's replica costume doesn't make him look just like Patty it may be because his materials and design are different from what was actually used. Hello.
 
Who do you think you're talking to Bill Munns? Since the actual materials are unknown it is unreasonable to insist that identical materials be used. The use of materials that will replicate the appearance of the PGF subject is reasonable to expcet in spite of not knowing the specifics. However if you know the specific materials why not drop Sweaty a line and point him in the right direction. If not well all anyone can do is the best they can.


I've said that from day 1. Its the woo crew who wants that standard upheld because it has a built in "out". As you stated, no one "knows' what the suit was made of so whatever one uses will be "wrong" in wooville.
 
You need to think critically, Crow. If Sweaty's replica costume doesn't make him look just like Patty it may be because his materials and design are different from what was actually used. Hello.

And the fact that Sweaty wants the experiment to result in a negative finding will have nothing to do with the outcome!
 
Who do you think you're talking to Bill Munns?

Since the actual materials are unknown it is unreasonable to insist that identical materials be used.

The use of materials that will replicate the appearance of the PGF subject is reasonable to expect in spite of not knowing the specifics. However if you know the specific materials why not drop Sweaty a line and point him in the right direction. If not well all anyone can do is the best they can.


Very well said, Crowlogic.

Here again is what William wrote:

Use the same materials and construction design as the ORIGINAL so that nobody can accuse you of not actually replicating the costume.


William's requirements are a 'straw man'....they're irrelevant to what I'm doing....for two reasons.

First.....we don't know that the PGF subject is a man-in-a-suit.

Secondly....it doesn't matter what material I use to increase my chest-width to Patty's dimensions, and to bury my upper arms in.
The question that needs to be addressed is simply....if a person with Bob's body dimensions is padded-out to the extent necesssary to replicate the dimensions of Patty....will that person's arm-swing look as natural, and realistic, as this...


Pattywalk55A.gif


.....while, at the same time....be able to hang down as straight as this...


Pattysback2.jpg





Personally....I highly doubt it. :)
 
You need to think critically, Crow. If Sweaty's replica costume doesn't make him look just like Patty it may be because his materials and design are different from what was actually used. Hello.


Critical thinking shouldn't be obstructive thinking. Can you offer Sweaty a good possible material with which to work with? There's an old saying if you can't help then get out of the way. I'm sure that if Sweaty was filming a PGF recreation you would steer him onto a K-100 for accuracy sake. In a very real way Morris did us a favor he proved that the dynal (sp) that he was using does not create the look of Patty. So we can at last put Phil out to pasture.
 
I've said that from day 1. Its the woo crew who wants that standard upheld because it has a built in "out". As you stated, no one "knows' what the suit was made of so whatever one uses will be "wrong" in wooville.

I'm personally not one to demand exact materials. I don't think exact materials will ever be incorporated into any reproduction. I think that with modern expertise a working recreation can be arrived at. Do I think that any kind of a truly expert recreation attempt has ever been made? No not by a long shot.

Sweaty is investagating shoulder padding and arm angles. The centerpoint of his argument is how does an over stuffed and padded human look and move in stuffed and padded conditions. He may even be better off not using a fur covering at all since it will allow visuals of the padding.

Or as Mae West would say "Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"
 
I'm personally not one to demand exact materials. I don't think exact materials will ever be incorporated into any reproduction. I think that with modern expertise a working recreation can be arrived at. Do I think that any kind of a truly expert recreation attempt has ever been made? No not by a long shot.

Sweaty is investagating shoulder padding and arm angles. The centerpoint of his argument is how does an over stuffed and padded human look and move in stuffed and padded conditions. He may even be better off not using a fur covering at all since it will allow visuals of the padding.

Or as Mae West would say "Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

>>>I'm personally not one to demand exact materials. I don't think exact materials will ever be incorporated into any reproduction. I think that with modern expertise a working recreation can be arrived at. Do I think that any kind of a truly expert recreation attempt has ever been made? No not by a long shot.

agreed

>>>Sweaty is investagating shoulder padding and arm angles. The centerpoint of his argument is how does an over stuffed and padded human look and move in stuffed and padded conditions. He may even be better off not using a fur covering at all since it will allow visuals of the padding.

fair enough- lets see what he comes up with
 
As a puppeteer (a person who works with many kinds of stuffing and padding every day) I can say that if the movement of the arm is important, then the materials are very important.

Different kinds of foam, batting, polyfil, cotton, would all bunch differently, all glide past each other differently, all allow for different sorts of freedom of movement.

I'll often start a piece and realize "Oh, that's going to bunch up weird with foam, I'd better use fill" In fact, beneath seemingly simple padded objects, there is often fairly complex engineering.

I'm not talking about metal and gears. I'm talking about soft materials put together in just the right ways to allow for the right movement.

For instance, to make very thick padded arms on a costume commission last year, I created 1.5" polyfoam ribs held together by fabric, then on top of that a layer of quilted batting, and patches of very slippery fabric in certain places to avoid catching on the underside of the fur. There would have been a million ways to padd out a non-moving figure to look like this, but most of them would have looked pretty terrible when they started to move.

All this is to say, the failure of one padded suit to allow proper movement means about as much as the failure of someone who has never baked to make a decent souffle by throwing all the ingredients together.
 
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