Israel begins ground operations

[Thunder]

How many? How big are they? Are they part of the government? Do they have television shows that teach children to hate?

actually yes...they do.

 

[Pardalis]

actually yes...they do.

Could you elaborate? Excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

 

[Thunder]

there is a cable program in NYC by right-wing Zionists that calls for the expulsion of all Arabs. they have a membership of several thousand. they are associated with Kahane Chai and Kach.

 

[Darth Rotor]

If Hamas is able to prevent Israel from entering Gaza because of either imternational pressure or by armed force their options as far as keeping missiles stored, hidden, and deployed greatly increase.

Just look at how easily Saddam was able to hide Scuds during GWI, and those needed a flatbed truck to move around on!

Hamas doesn't need a missile nearly as big to reach all of Israel. And if Gaza is given control of their ports as some here have demanded (or even worse, allowed to open the airport) there is no check on what Hamas can import.

1. Saddam had a lot of real estate. Gaza does not.

2. UAV's change quite a bit in this game.

3. Scud hunting was hard, and yes, in urban terrain, playing the shell game is a tactical option. I don't say it is easy, but it's not impossible.

4. If the UN is to have any mission, customs inspectors in Gaza might be it. Then again, customs inspectors can be bought off. There were two massive blows to the UN to come from the Iraq War. One was the failed gut check, August 2003, after the car bomb at the HQ bldg. The second was how badly exposed the UN was in terms of insider corruption on the Oil for Food deal. Or maybe that was a good thing, clearing away the smoke screen, but it makes any claim of UN impartiality very hard to support. Tough on UN in terms of the political game always in play.

DR

 

[Pardalis]

there is a cable program in NYC by right-wing Zionists that calls for the expulsion of all Arabs. they have a membership of several thousand. they are associated with Kahane Chai and Kach.

Are they active in Israel?

 

[DC]

So now Israel is one of the largest armies in the world?? Where'd you get that information?

You think it is a question of how big or advanced one army is against a terrorist organization fighting at its own territory?
It doesn't take much to make life a living hell for the Israeli civilians bordering with Gaza and its terroristic organizations.
If you start putting yourself in other's shoes maybe you will begin to understand how it is living with a terroristic organization next to your house.

Ever tried a Palestinian shoe?

 

[Thunder]

Are they active in Israel?

have u never heard of the Jewish Task Force, the Jewish Defense League, Baruch Marzel, Moledet, and Noam Federman?

 

[Pardalis]

have u never heard of the Jewish Task Force, the Jewish Defense League, Baruch Marzel, Moledet, and Noam Federman?

Are you comparing Hamas to a couple of illegal fringe groups who have little to no political power?

 

[Thunder]

Oh, there is also Gush Emunim, that fool Lieberman, and the whole lot of right-wing Zionists who want Eretz Yisrael to be Arabrein.

I am indeed comparing their extremist views to the views of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad. ALL of them are racists.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Oh, there is also Gush Emunim, that fool Lieberman, and the whole lot of right-wing Zionists who want Eretz Yisrael to be Arabrein.

FWIW, in history, after WW I there was a population transfer between Greece and Turkey that The Powers hoped would defuse what looked to be potential conflicts. A few hundred thousands each (maybe over a half a million each) over a million total anyway, were moved. Not gonna say it was a great success, but it was a partial success. Of course, Turks still refer to part of what you and I know as Greece as "Turkish Thrace" ... Cyprus is a related but different issue. Note that for a tenuous peace, they had to clear each other's turf out, roughly. It is a possible solution set, maybe not the solution set for this particular problem, and of course it brings its own set of problems. So too did the 1967 cease fire agreement.

I am indeed comparing their extremist views to the views of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad. ALL of them are racists.

OK, let's grant you that all of them are Semitic racists. Fine.

Who has used which means to do what? Do you find them equivalent? Does that matter?

DR

 

[Pardalis]

I am indeed comparing their extremist views to the views of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad. ALL of them are racists.

Yes, of course, you have every reason to be wary of them, but that wasn't the point. As Yairhol pointed out, there are racists groups everywhere, but do they have any political influence and power?

I briefly looked them up on Wiki and it seems most of the names you gave have been denounced by the Iraeli government.

 

[yairhol]

there is a cable program in NYC by right-wing Zionists that calls for the expulsion of all Arabs. they have a membership of several thousand. they are associated with Kahane Chai and Kach.

Kach and Kahane Chai are the same minor (very minor) group of people. This party was taken out of the law some years ago.

(anyone, please correct me if "out of the law" is not the correct way to say this in English. Thanks).

 

[Slayhamlet]

Kach and Kahane Chai are the same minor (very minor) group of people. This party was taken out of the law some years ago.

(anyone, please correct me if "out of the law" is not the correct way to say this in English. Thanks).

"Outlawed" is the English word.

 

[yairhol]

have u never heard of the Jewish Task Force, the Jewish Defense League, Baruch Marzel, Moledet, and Noam Federman?

Baruch Marzel & Noam Federman are extremists with very little support of others. Again, extremists are everywhere in the world. Israel is no exception.
Moledet does not hold views in favor of killing Arabs. They wish to do a willing transfer of Israeli Arabs to wherever they would like to go in return for a financial compensation. That is not so extreme and I'm positive that there are not so few Israeli arabs who will be willing for this compromise.

 

[yairhol]

"Outlawed" is the English word.

Thank you.

 

[lionking]

So now Israel is one of the largest armies in the world?? Where'd you get that information?

You think it is a question of how big or advanced one army is against a terrorist organization fighting at its own territory?
It doesn't take much to make life a living hell for the Israeli civilians bordering with Gaza and its terroristic organizations.
If you start putting yourself in other's shoes maybe you will begin to understand how it is living with a terroristic organization next to your house.

Thirtieth largest according to wikipedia. Creative definition of "one of"....

ETA This is directed at the Fool, not you.

 

[yairhol]

Reports are starting to pour in that Israeli newspapers have been getting quite a big number of emails from Palestinians in Gaza pleading the Israeli government to continue with the operation and destroy the Hamas.
Some brave Palestinians have come up on radio talk shows and said that the Hamas are forcing the civilians to act as human shields. Other civilians are forced to become shahids or else their family members will be killed.

 

[Slayhamlet]

Reports are starting to pour in that Israeli newspapers have been getting quite a big number of emails from Palestinians in Gaza pleading the Israeli government to continue with the operation and destroy the Hamas.
Some brave Palestinians have come up on radio talk shows and said that the Hamas are forcing the civilians to act as human shields. Other civilians are forced to become shahids or else their family members will be killed.

Okay. Can we actually see these reports?

 

[Slayhamlet]

Thirtieth largest according to wikipedia. Creative definition of "one of"....

ETA This is directed at the Fool, not you.

Well, it's one of the largest per capita.

 

[gumboot]

So, now Palestine is a country?

OK, perhaps it is not legally a "war crime", but collective punishment is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/EGUA-7B5QL3?OpenDocument

This is false. Even assuming that closing the border with Palestine could be considered collective punishment (it cannot), it would be impossible for Israel to be guilty of collective punishment against the citizens of Gaza.

Under the Fourth Geneva Convention, the prohibition against collective punishment is applied to protected persons, as defined by the Convention:

"Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals"

(Article 4, 4th Geneva Convention)

Given that Palestinians are not in the hands of Israel, as Israel was not occupying Gaza, but are in fact in the hands of Palestine, of whom they are nationals, it is impossible for Israel to conduct Collective Punishment against Palestinians.

This could, of course, all changes with the movement into Gaza as this will make Israel an Occupying Power (assuming they conquer Gaza).

If you're going to bleat on about war crimes I would strongly suggest you actually bother to read the Laws of Armed Conflict so that you know what the [RULE10] you're talking about.