Theory of Special Relativity is wrong

[Subduction Zone]

How is it refuted? Just because the theory offends you is pretty weak reasoning. I might not like the law of gravity but that does not make it any safer to step out of an airplane at 10,000 feet. There have been no, let me repeat, no experiments that have refuted the theory of special relativity.

 

[Reality Check]

Completely wrong and idiotic epistemology. Special relativity is wrong since it cannot be right. Whereas the doctrine of the partially entrained aether is proven experimentally as we have seen. Low altitude experiments must be seen as irrelevant and misleading. And all that is needed is more high altitude experiments, those done having already proven the doctrine. But now we need to quantify everything properly with more high altitude stuff.

Imagine letting yourself get lead astray by wiki. Thats just an EMBARRASSMENT man. But then thats the public service for you.

Can you give us a list of the experiments that have confirmed partially entrained aether?

There must be hundreds of them. After all Special Relativity has been tested in literally billions of events (every high energy physics experiment) and in many experiments done to specifically test SR.

 

[GMB]

I've already linked some. What you reckon? I'm some trick pony or something? Actually ALL such experiments have confirmed this theory since there never was a null result. Even all your tendentious wiki experiments confirmed the theory.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've already linked some. What you reckon? I'm some trick pony or something? Actually ALL such experiments have confirmed this theory since there never was a null result. Even all your tendentious wiki experiments confirmed the theory.

I assume that you are speaking of special relativity here, since there has not been any proof of an ether in any form (or spelling) So you have linked proofs of the special theory of relativity, where is there any evidence for an ether?

 

[GMB]

How is it refuted? Just because the theory offends you is pretty weak reasoning.

Stop lying fella. I"ve never made that argument. I don't necessarily intend to go over old ground all the time. See the absolute-velocity thread and try answering the Dingle refutation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Stop lying fella. I"ve never made that argument. I don't necessarily intend to go over old ground all the time. See the absolute-velocity thread and try answering the Dingle refutation.

Sorry too much of a hassle humber, I mean GMB, why don't you link it here?

 

[GMB]

I assume that you are speaking of special relativity here, since there has not been any proof of an ether in any form (or spelling) So you have linked proofs of the special theory of relativity, where is there any evidence for an ether?

You linked an example of the evidence your own dishonest self. Now stop being dishonest. You just made a link of the mountaintop experiment about two or three posts up. There is no excuse for this dishonesty.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You linked an example of the evidence your own dishonest self. Now stop being dishonest. You just made a link of the mountaintop experiment about two or three posts up. There is no excuse for this dishonesty.

I think that you are confusing your threads, along with your facts. I saw that Reality Check said that experiment was never reproduced. A valid experiment is always reproducible. Otherwise the logical assumption is that the one weird experiment was wrong.

 

[GMB]

Correction. It was reality-check who linked the proof for both the aether and the doctrine of the partially-entrained ether. Here it is:

"Galactic Drift

In addition to the Earth’s revolution about the Sun, our entire solar system has a galactic velocity component. A very sensitive and precise aether drift experiment might be able to detect this component if conducted at higher altitudes to lessen the slowing effects to a partially entrained aether. Although it is not reported in the textbooks, such an experiment was performed by Dayton Miller18 during the mid-1920s on a mountain top near the Mt. Wilson observatory. The experiment was an utter marvel of science, performed with exquisite care and precision over a period of several years. (See the excellent article by James DeMeo in IE #38 describing the Miller interferometry experiment.)

Miller concluded that the Earth was drifting towards an apex in the Southern Celestial Hemisphere, towards Dorado, the swordfish, right ascension 4 hrs. 54 min., declination of –70° 33’, in the middle of the Great Magellanic Cloud and 7° from the southern pole of the ecliptic. He measured an aether-drift of about 10 km/sec at the location of his interferometer. From this he assumed the Earth was moving through a partially entrained aether which reduced its velocity from 200 km/sec in space, to about 10 km/sec nearer to the surface. This experimental result agrees with the concept of a partially entrained aether. More importantly, this is the tie-breaking experiment that relativity theory cannot explain."

Now bear in mind we don't usually have a default position but we definitely do in this case. An aether has to be considered as virtually proven from the getgo since otherwise light wouldn't move in waves. That light moves in waves itself proves the existence of an aether. This is standard wave action. No medium, no waves. Simple as that.

 

[GMB]

Thats just marvellous isn't it. Look at the detail and precision. The clarity. And the results never overturned.

 

[Subduction Zone]

gumber. I mean GMB, if an experiment is reproducible it means that if someone else runs the same experiment they will get the same results. That has not happened. If this did happen then the experiment might have some validity, but since it has not, it is a very strong indication that the one exception was not a valid experiment.

 

[GMB]

gumber. I mean GMB, if an experiment is reproducible it means that if someone else runs the same experiment they will get the same results.

Why on earth do you imagine that the results aren't reproduceable? Of course they are. What is more they would be cheap to reproduce. Because we have all these satellites and things these days. And its a lot easier to get to the top of mountains these days. The equipment is better and all that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If they are reproducible then why hasn't anyone ever done it? One of the easiest ways to fame as a physicist is to disprove a well accepted theory. This would be revolutionary in physics and would be instant news if it actually happened. Face the facts someone screwed up an experiment that they did and have not been able to reproduce the results since. If they could show me a link where it happened.

 

[GMB]

If they are reproducible then why hasn't anyone ever done it?

Bad science drives out the good. Mass-sackings is the answer. Mass-sackings, mass-sackings, mass-sackings amen. Clearly the experiment is reproduceable. And with satelittes it ought to be cheap.

So the answer is that the doctrinaire science workers and bureaucrat priesthood members don't want to know. Hence they would close down any attempt to find the truth. Its not hard to see what these people are like.

 

[paximperium]

Bad science drives out the good. Mass-sackings is the answer. Mass-sackings, mass-sackings, mass-sackings amen. Clearly the experiment is reproduceable. And with satelittes it ought to be cheap.

So the answer is that the doctrinaire science workers and bureaucrat priesthood members don't want to know. Hence they would close down any attempt to find the truth. Its not hard to see what these people are like.

Do you any evidence of these "mass-sackings"? Any at all?

 

[GMB]

Ho ho. Get on with it or go away.

 

[paximperium]

Ho ho. Get on with it or go away.

So I take it that you don't have any evidence of these "mass-sackings"?

 

[Tricky]

This thread is a total train wreck, but I hesitate to dump it completely. I've moved a whole lot of posts to AAH. Maybe some didn't deserve it, so don't take it personally. It is a "batch job".

Also, I'm switching the thread to moderated status because such a high percentage of the posts are bickering. So don't even bother to bicker. Nobody will see it. Address the topic without comments on how "stupid" somebody is, okay?

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[sol invictus]

Well you could send me a PM with the answer if you dont want to spoil it

I'll repost my response to this post, since it was moved.

-----

The truth is that as far as we know it is impossible to determine the speed of the lab from the inside. Had GMB claimed it was possible, I would have asked how, and then on from there.

Had he agreed it isn't possible, the next step is to point out that that implies that the speed of light is always equal to c as measured by someone inside, no matter what the speed of the lab (because otherwise by measuring the speed of light, maybe in different directions, you could determine the speed of the lab).

Therefore, the laws of physics are identical inside all such labs, and the speed of light is the same (which really follows from the first statement, as you can see). But those two postulates are precisely what Einstein used to derive special relativity - including everything GMB was objecting to.

If you're GMB that leaves you with these options:

a) retract your answer to the question,

b) claim that Einstein made a mathematics mistake, so that it's not true that the various bizarre consequences of SR follow from those two postulates,

...

 

[Reality Check]

Correction. It was reality-check who linked the proof for both the aether and the doctrine of the partially-entrained ether. Here it is:

"Galactic Drift

In addition to the Earth’s revolution about the Sun, our entire solar system has a galactic velocity component. A very sensitive and precise aether drift experiment might be able to detect this component if conducted at higher altitudes to lessen the slowing effects to a partially entrained aether. Although it is not reported in the textbooks, such an experiment was performed by Dayton Miller18 during the mid-1920s on a mountain top near the Mt. Wilson observatory. The experiment was an utter marvel of science, performed with exquisite care and precision over a period of several years. (See the excellent article by James DeMeo in IE #38 describing the Miller interferometry experiment.)

Miller concluded that the Earth was drifting towards an apex in the Southern Celestial Hemisphere, towards Dorado, the swordfish, right ascension 4 hrs. 54 min., declination of –70° 33’, in the middle of the Great Magellanic Cloud and 7° from the southern pole of the ecliptic. He measured an aether-drift of about 10 km/sec at the location of his interferometer. From this he assumed the Earth was moving through a partially entrained aether which reduced its velocity from 200 km/sec in space, to about 10 km/sec nearer to the surface. This experimental result agrees with the concept of a partially entrained aether. More importantly, this is the tie-breaking experiment that relativity theory cannot explain."

Now bear in mind we don't usually have a default position but we definitely do in this case. An aether has to be considered as virtually proven from the getgo since otherwise light wouldn't move in waves. That light moves in waves itself proves the existence of an aether. This is standard wave action. No medium, no waves. Simple as that.

I got that not quite right. The experiment was repeated but the results were not reproduced. Miller's experiment was done actually repeated on Mount Wilson by Kennedy who got different results form Miller (1/10 the drift measured by Miller and no seasonal effects).

The better point is that modern experiments are so accurate that they should (and do not) detect any difference in drift caused by the difference in height between their various locations. So we do not have to depend on a decades old experiment whose results have not been reproduced.