Israel begins ground operations

parky76 said:
i think a fair fight...or even a fairer fight...has some honor to it.

why is punching someone in the groin not allowed in boxing or karate? cause there is no honor in it...and renders the opponent useless.
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You stated that "war" used to be fought with "honor" now you are bringing up boxing and Karate that are both refereed sports. Learn the first rule of holes. BTW a groin kick is one of the FIRST karate kicks learned.
 
parky76 said:
i think a fair fight...or even a fairer fight...has some honor to it.

why is punching someone in the groin not allowed in boxing or karate? cause there is no honor in it...and renders the opponent useless.
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This isn't MMA Cage rage 2008 pay per view. Many innocent peple have died and will die.

Hamas has had its go and shown it can't control itself. If rumors are true and a different Palestinian regime is to be given a chance then lets please give them a chance. Its time to address Palestinian nationalism and sort out a real deal that includes a viable palestinian state. This will not end all the troubles but it is required before any end is possible.
 
parky76 said:
Um...come again?
:confused:

talk about a massive derail. Its like the F train is heading towards Philly.
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I have removed the image. I am sorry. I made a decision to not get involved in any discussions about this conflict, mainly because of my heritage. But it hurts me SO much and i am drunken now. Sorry. Carry on.
 
The Fool said:
This isn't MMA Cage rage 2008 pay per view. Many innocent peple have died and will die.

Hamas has had its go and shown it can't control itself. If rumors are true and a different Palestinian regime is to be given a chance then lets please give them a chance. Its time to address Palestinian nationalism and sort out a real deal that includes a viable palestinian state. This will not end all the troubles but it is required before any end is possible.
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It appears that Israel has promised Fatah that it will hand over Gaza to them as soon as Hamas is destroyed. In the meantime Fatah members are being targeted by Hamas as "collaborators".

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733155685&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
The move came amid reports that the Fatah leadership in the West Bank has instructed its followers to be ready to assume power over the Gaza Strip when and if Israel's military operation results in the removal of Hamas rule.

Fatah officials in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that Hamas militiamen had been assaulting many Fatah activists since the beginning of the operation last Saturday. They said at least 75 activists were shot in the legs while others had their hands broken.

Wisam Abu Jalhoum, a Fatah activist from the Jabalya refugee camp, was shot in the legs by Hamas militiamen for allegedly expressing joy over the IDF air strikes on Hamas targets.

"Hamas is very nervous, because they feel that their end is nearing," a senior Fatah official said. "They have been waging a brutal campaign against Fatah members in the Gaza Strip."

Meanwhile, sources close to Hamas revealed over the weekend that the movement had "executed" more than 35 Palestinians who were suspected of collaborating with Israel and were being held in various Hamas security installations
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Hmm.....Fatah and Israel becoming stronger allies due to the common enemy in Hamas.

Interesting. This might go in some interesting directions.

If Israel really wants peace, they will start seriously propping up and assisting Fatah NOW.
 
WildCat said:
You are sick.
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Sick is he?


I think a country with one of the most modern militaries in the world , thanks to the America Taxpayer, pounding the **** out of a small group of people who are armed with little more than primitive rockets and killing a whole bunch of civilians in the process is SICK.

I think a country that racially discriminates against people, implements a regime of apartheid, collectively punishes, persecutes and ghettoizes a whole group of people, including holding up their pregnant women at checkpoints is SICK.

The IDF aren't civilians, they are legitimate targets. I also hope Hamas gives 'em a good kicking.

All those sitting in front of their TV with six packs and egging on the murder of Palestinian civilians because they are the wrong race are sick!!
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
Sick is he?



The IDF aren't civilians, they are legitimate targets. I also hope Hamas gives 'em a good kicking.

All those sitting in front of their TV with six packs and egging on the murder of Palestinian civilians because they are the wrong race are sick!!
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Yeah I hope Hamas comes out of their holes too. They don't seem too eager to actually put their asses on the line.
 
What is and isn't cowardly will not be determined by the dead.

You just have to live with yourself afterward, and some annoying dumb people at home who wish to shame you for their own political gain, regardless of your deeds good and evil.
 
Gotta love it when stupid people protest:

death_to_juice.jpg
 
parky76 said:
i think a fair fight...or even a fairer fight...has some honor to it.
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Bull. War is killing the other guy before he kills you. The honor comes in those who risk their lives for the greater good. If I see the enemy sitting on the john I'm going to shoot him there, not wait for him to get his pants on so we can have a fair fight.

That being said, it would appear that Israel's objective is to destroy Hamas completely. They will try to complete the coup that Fatah was preparing for when Hamas kicked them out of Gaza. Israel has the advantage that Hamas, being clients of Iran, are not particularly popular in the Arab world.

It remains to be seen whether Fatah is seen by the Gazans as puppets of the Israelis when Abbas is put back in charge. Hamas has considerable support on the West Bank as well. People on the street will tend to side with the civilian population. If Fatah are seen as collaborators with the Israelis it could get pretty ugly. It's hard to imagine the new leadership will be less radical.

Perhaps Israel will release Barghouti to pick up the pieces. I remember hearing years ago the theory that they were keeping him in jail to give him street cred and to keep his hands clean in the internal palestinian power struggles. If they are planning on playing the Barghouti as Mandella card, their opportunity may be soon.
 
Texas said:
Give me just one example of "honor" in war ever.
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I recently read a book about Agincourt. Prior to this battle Henry V took many prisoners at the siege of Harfleur. These prisoners were released on oath, that they would be allowed to go home, but would have to turn up on a particular date at Calais, in order to be taken as prisoners back to England. After moving on to Agincourt and winning that battle Henry and his army moved north to Calais to return to England.
All of the prisoners released on oath weeks earlier indeed turned up at Calais for the specified date, and most were taken to England. Many of these were ransomed back to their families and estates in France, but this process often took years. Some never saw France again, being judged as too influential, capable, and therefore dangerous to English interests. They lived out the rest of their lives in England, as prisoners.
So, rather than suffer the dishonour of breaking an oath, all of these men willingly returned to captivity, knowing that this could well mean years or a lifetime away from their homes and families.
Apparently this was pretty standard practice at the time. There are other examples, but that is one that surprised me just recently.
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
All those sitting in front of their TV with six packs and egging on the murder of Palestinian civilians because they are the wrong race are sick!!
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Do you think you ought to take up your concerns with those people then?
 
plumjam said:
I recently read a book about Agincourt. Prior to this battle Henry V took many prisoners at the siege of Harfleur. These prisoners were released on oath, that they would be allowed to go home, but would have to turn up on a particular date at Calais, in order to be taken as prisoners back to England. After moving on to Agincourt and winning that battle Henry and his army moved north to Calais to return to England.
All of the prisoners released on oath weeks earlier indeed turned up at Calais for the specified date, and most were taken to England. Many of these were ransomed back to their families and estates in France, but this process often took years. Some never saw France again, being judged as too influential, capable, and therefore dangerous to English interests. They lived out the rest of their lives in England, as prisoners.
So, rather than suffer the dishonour of breaking an oath, all of these men willingly returned to captivity, knowing that this could well mean years or a lifetime away from their homes and families.
Apparently this was pretty standard practice at the time. There are other examples, but that is one that surprised me just recently.
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How do you explain this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...aggage_train_and_the_killing_of_the_prisoners

The assault on the baggage train and the killing of the prisoners
The only French success was a sally from Agincourt Castle behind the lines attacking the lightly protected English baggage train, with Ysembart d'Azincourt (leading a small number of men-at-arms and about 600 peasants) seizing some of Henry's personal treasures, including a crown. In some accounts this happened towards the end of the battle, and led the English to think they were being attacked from the rear. Barker (2005) prefers the Gesta Henrici however, believed to have been written by an English chaplain who was actually in the baggage train, who says that the attack happened at the start of the battle.

Regardless, there was definitely a point after the initial English victory where Henry became alarmed that the French were regrouping for another attack. The Gesta Henrici puts this after the English had overcome the onslaught of the French men-at-arms, and the weary English troops were eyeing the French rearguard ("in incomparable number and still fresh"). Le Fevre and Waurin similarly say that it was signs of the French rearguard regrouping and "marching forward in battle order" which made the English think they were still in danger.

In any event, Henry ordered the slaughter of what was perhaps several thousand French prisoners, with only the most illustrious being spared. His fear was that they would rearm themselves with the weapons strewn upon the field, and the exhausted English (who had been fighting for about three hours) would be overwhelmed. This was certainly ruthless, but arguably justifiable given the situation of the battle; perhaps surprisingly, even the French chroniclers do not criticise him for this.[28] This marked the end of the battle, as the French rearguard, having seen so many of the French nobility captured and killed, fled the battlefield.
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gdnp said:
It remains to be seen whether Fatah is seen by the Gazans as puppets of the Israelis when Abbas is put back in charge. Hamas has considerable support on the West Bank as well. People on the street will tend to side with the civilian population. If Fatah are seen as collaborators with the Israelis it could get pretty ugly. It's hard to imagine the new leadership will be less radical.

Perhaps Israel will release Barghouti to pick up the pieces. I remember hearing years ago the theory that they were keeping him in jail to give him street cred and to keep his hands clean in the internal palestinian power struggles. If they are planning on playing the Barghouti as Mandella card, their opportunity may be soon.
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The Palestinians are between a rock and a hard place. If they want peace and prosperity they have to work with the Israelis and work against the Islamist militants. But anyone who does that will be portrayed as a collaborator or a puppet of the zionists.
 
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