Israeli blockade 'forces Palestinians to search rubbish dumps for food'

[gdnp]

This is one of the most astonishing things I have ever read! Arafat had no private sector job, and his government job paid a pittance. Yet he had $300 million in a Swiss bank account when he died, but he wasn't out for personal gain!

Arafat may have had $2 billion squirreled away in various bank accounts, but I have yet to see evidence that he planned on using this for his personal gain. I assume he could have gone into exile in a villa somewhere and lived out his later years in luxury, but chose not to do so. If you have links to sites reporting Arafat living a lavish lifestyle, I would like to see them. I think it far more likely that he planned on using these funds to strengthen his political position and support the Palestinian cause, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

 

[WildCat]

Arafat may have had $2 billion squirreled away in various bank accounts, but I have yet to see evidence that he planned on using this for his personal gain. I assume he could have gone into exile in a villa somewhere and lived out his later years in luxury, but chose not to do so. If you have links to sites reporting Arafat living a lavish lifestyle, I would like to see them. I think it far more likely that he planned on using these funds to strengthen his political position and support the Palestinian cause, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.

His wife certainly has been living a lavish life of luxury. Arafat may well have thought he'd live to see Israel destroyed, then he could build his palaces with the money he stole from the Palestinians.

 

[marksman]

A CBS 60 Minutes report, which aired while Arafat was still alive, concluded that Arafat was using the money for himself and his family, not for the Palestinian people:

Although the money for the portfolio came from public funds like Palestinian taxes, virtually none of it was used for the Palestinian people; it was all controlled by Arafat. And, Prince says, none of these dealings were made public.​

-Cite

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

I notice your innocent civilians (or the people they voted/covered for) are about to get a visit from Israel over their FIRING ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL DURING IIRC A TRUCE PERIOD. See if you can figure out the difference between an aggrieved legitimate government and terrorist slime. I did, and therefore support Israel -and it is and has been my opinion that Israel is responding far too gently. Those who know me are quite aware of my beliefs in this area and other things that extend from that opinion.* The innocent civilians need to kill the people who are hiding among them and using them for cover - because Israel has every right to destroy those attacking them wherever they hide. Just as the US does.



*My views on criminals(esp.those who assault others), gangs, active fundamentalist religious (Al Qaueda,various US Sects, IRA), activist/terrorist seperatists (Basques, Tamil Tigers), reformists (Shining Path, etc) and those who hide, feed, support them is they need long, hard deaths. It is not a secret. It has never been a secret.

I think it's appropriate to call out those who support terrorism and make baseless accusations like yourself. Those who you support are killing innocent civilians. These terrorists have made life hell for people for over 60 years. You should be ashamed of yourself. Perhaps if you were to go visit the area and witnessed it for yourself you might find some humanity at last.

 

[fuelair]

I think it's appropriate to call out those who support terrorism and make baseless accusations like yourself. Those who you support are killing innocent civilians. These terrorists have made life hell for people for over 60 years. You should be ashamed of yourself. Perhaps if you were to go visit the area and witnessed it for yourself you might find some humanity at last.

We seem to disagree on the definitions of humanity and who the terrorists are. Go join Hamass if they are your good guys, my money stays with the IDF and the real/anti-terrorist good-guys. None are perfect but Israel is massively closer to it.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

We seem to disagree on the definitions of humanity and who the terrorists are. Go join Hamass if they are your good guys, my money stays with the IDF and the real/anti-terrorist good-guys. None are perfect but Israel is massively closer to it.

It would seem so. My definition of humanity is a care for human beings whatever their race/ethnicity.

 

[Thunder]

I think it's appropriate to call out those who support terrorism and make baseless accusations like yourself. Those who you support are killing innocent civilians. These terrorists have made life hell for people for over 60 years. You should be ashamed of yourself. Perhaps if you were to go visit the area and witnessed it for yourself you might find some humanity at last.

Um..if Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria FORCE Palestinian refugees..and their kids..and their grandkids...to live in refugee camps. Force them not to be able to get citizenship. Prevent them from getting government jobs..

that is NOT Israel's fault.

The Arab states, use the suffering of the Palestinian refugees, as a sick, twisted, pathetic, propaganda tool. If you don't see this, you are blind. Willingly blind.

As to the Arab Israelis...their life is not bad at all. There was a story recently about an Arab couple in northern Israel, who's cute little daughter was refused entry into an all Jewish kindergarten. The story made Israeli headlines, and there was an outpouring of support from Israeli Jews, who offered the girl to go to other more tolerant Jewish schools. This family, is wealthy as hell. Live in a gorgeous home.

The Arab Israelis....live a pretty damn good life.

Have you ever been to Israel? Have you ever met an Arab Israeli? I have.

Now, the Palestinians in Gaza..are indeed suffering greatly. As are the Palestinians in the West Bank. But this could all end..immediately.

If they put down the guns..and stop the rocket fire.

 

[gdnp]

A CBS 60 Minutes report, which aired while Arafat was still alive, concluded that Arafat was using the money for himself and his family, not for the Palestinian people:

Although the money for the portfolio came from public funds like Palestinian taxes, virtually none of it was used for the Palestinian people; it was all controlled by Arafat. And, Prince says, none of these dealings were made public.​

-Cite

Additional quotes from the same story:

Like a Chicago ward boss, he still doles out oodles of money; Fayyad says he pays his security forces alone $20 million a month, all of it in cash.

All told, U.S. officials estimate Arafat's personal nest egg at between $1 billion and $3 billion.

Arafat may have $1 billion, but he sure isn't spending it to live well. He's holed up in his Ramallah compound, which the Israelis all but reduced to rubble a year-and-a-half ago. Arafat has always lived modestly, which you can't say about his wife, Suha. According to Israeli officials, she gets $100,000 a month from Arafat out of the Palestinian budget, and lives lavishly in Paris on this allowance.

So as I said, it seems that Arafat was using this money more for consolidating power, rewarding allies, etc. than for his own personal comfort. Although it seems that his wife is less enamored with the spartan lifestyle than Arafat was.

 

[The Fool]

As to the Arab Israelis...their life is not bad at all. There was a story recently about an Arab couple in northern Israel, who's cute little daughter was refused entry into an all Jewish kindergarten. The story made Israeli headlines, and there was an outpouring of support from Israeli Jews, who offered the girl to go to other more tolerant Jewish schools. This family, is wealthy as hell. Live in a gorgeous home.

The Arab Israelis....live a pretty damn good life.

best fed untermenchen in the world, give yourself a great big pat on the back.

 

[gdnp]

Um..if Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria FORCE Palestinian refugees..and their kids..and their grandkids...to live in refugee camps. Force them not to be able to get citizenship. Prevent them from getting government jobs..

that is NOT Israel's fault.

Israel is responsible (at least in part) for their becoming refugees and for refusing them the right to return. The Arab countries have, however, been using the Palestinians as pawns as well.

The Arab states, use the suffering of the Palestinian refugees, as a sick, twisted, pathetic, propaganda tool. If you don't see this, you are blind. Willingly blind.

agreed. The refugees could have been absorbed as the Jewish refugees from the territories were absorbed into Israel.

As to the Arab Israelis...their life is not bad at all. There was a story recently about an Arab couple in northern Israel, who's cute little daughter was refused entry into an all Jewish kindergarten. The story made Israeli headlines, and there was an outpouring of support from Israeli Jews, who offered the girl to go to other more tolerant Jewish schools. This family, is wealthy as hell. Live in a gorgeous home.

The Arab Israelis....live a pretty damn good life.

From everything I have heard they live a better life than those in the west bank and Gaza. They are still second class citizens, however.

Have you ever been to Israel? Have you ever met an Arab Israeli? I have.

Now, the Palestinians in Gaza..are indeed suffering greatly. As are the Palestinians in the West Bank. But this could all end..immediately.

If they put down the guns..and stop the rocket fire.

There was just a 6 month truce. Rocket fire did not end but it was substantially diminished. This did not lead to substantial easing of the blockade. No rockets are beign fired on the west bank, and yet settlement expansion continues, along with construction of the wall and travel restrictions. So the suggestion that the suffering in the occupied territories could end immediately is naive.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

As to the Arab Israelis...their life is not bad at all. There was a story recently about an Arab couple in northern Israel, who's cute little daughter was refused entry into an all Jewish kindergarten. The story made Israeli headlines, and there was an outpouring of support from Israeli Jews, who offered the girl to go to other more tolerant Jewish schools. This family, is wealthy as hell. Live in a gorgeous home.

The Arab Israelis....live a pretty damn good life.

Oh Dear. Pass the vomit bag.

It's like one of those nauseous western media propaganda stories where US Marines are rebuilding an Iraqi school in their spare time. A photo call designed to fool us all into thinking life is rosy for Iraqis.

I'm surprised even you could stoop so low.

Now, the Palestinians in Gaza..are indeed suffering greatly. As are the Palestinians in the West Bank. But this could all end..immediately.

.. if they bowed down and kissed the ring of Israel and left to resettle somewhere other than Palestine, leaning Israel the lot.

Because that's what you want isn't it Parky? You've admitted that you would prefer if Israel had the lot. You have admitted you find the occupation of Palestine by Israel as a romantic thing.

I'm not an expert in german but I can see untermenchen means "Underpeople" - I would call them the Underclass.

You go on about Anti-semites Parky. You're beginning to show distinct signs of being the polar opposite.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

No rockets are beign fired on the west bank, and yet settlement expansion continues, along with construction of the wall and travel restrictions. So the suggestion that the suffering in the occupied territories could end immediately is naive.

It's not only naive, it's patronizing propaganda. Only an idiot would believe that nonsense. It's the kind of crass spin that politicians come out with.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Let's look at the settlement expansion, and travel restricitons.

Settlments>

(hmm, almost as if the government can't control them..)
" the Israeli police are present in the area for a half day every week and have evicted the settlers on several occasions, but they keep coming straight back and intend to stay.[42]"
\
OH WAIT THEY CAN'T.

"Operation Price Tag

Operation Price Tag is a coordinated tactic adapted by the Israeli settlers movement of attacking Palestinian property in retaliation for attempts by the Israeli government efforts to remove illegal West Bank outposts. Several hundred, mostly young Israeli settlers, are involved. Israeli security forces, the Israeli Defense Force, IDF, are poorly equipped to deal with the outbreak.[128] The Israeli government has responded with a plan to increase law enforcement and cut off aid to illegal outposts.[129]"

:|

So let's look at the wall.

Recent decions are moving it closer to the Green Line.. although they are bowing to demographic pressure (surprise)

Anyway.

I want you (Gdnp and TFT) to tell me what you would do to protect your citizens under the current situation and attacks. I asked this earlier, no one answerd, I'll ask it again.

How would you a) protect the security of Isreali citizens and b) provide relief to the Palestinains?

 

[a_unique_person]

Let's look at the settlement expansion, and travel restricitons.

Settlments>

(hmm, almost as if the government can't control them..)
" the Israeli police are present in the area for a half day every week and have evicted the settlers on several occasions, but they keep coming straight back and intend to stay.[42]"
\
OH WAIT THEY CAN'T.

"Operation Price Tag

Operation Price Tag is a coordinated tactic adapted by the Israeli settlers movement of attacking Palestinian property in retaliation for attempts by the Israeli government efforts to remove illegal West Bank outposts. Several hundred, mostly young Israeli settlers, are involved. Israeli security forces, the Israeli Defense Force, IDF, are poorly equipped to deal with the outbreak.[128] The Israeli government has responded with a plan to increase law enforcement and cut off aid to illegal outposts.[129]"

:|

So let's look at the wall.

Recent decions are moving it closer to the Green Line.. although they are bowing to demographic pressure (surprise)

Anyway.

I want you (Gdnp and TFT) to tell me what you would do to protect your citizens under the current situation and attacks. I asked this earlier, no one answerd, I'll ask it again.

How would you a) protect the security of Isreali citizens and b) provide relief to the Palestinains?

You also have to ask a question that is very important alongside (a).

Why were settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, which were dangerous to live in, subsidised so poor people were encouraged to move there?

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Prior to the signing of the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, the eruption of the First Intifada in the late eighties, down to the signing of the Israeli-Jordanian peace treaty in 1994, Israeli governments on the left and right argued that the settlements were of strategic and tactical importance. The location of the settlements was primarily chosen based on the threat of an attack by the bordering hostile countries of Jordan, Syria, and Egypt and possible routes of advance into Israeli population areas

No idea. None at all. :|

ETA: Could you answer my request? I'm curious to see if anyone has a better solution.

 

[FireGarden]

Israel has the right to control its border with Gaza, just as Canada has the right to control its border with the US. However, if Canada decides to also blockade the US coast and takes control of all air travel in and out of the US, then the situation would be a bit different, wouldn't it? Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?

Good point.
The more this goes on, the more I'm reminded of Apartheid. (Between Israel and the Occupied territories, btw).

How much control of their borders did Apartheid's Bantustans have?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan

Apparently... Apartheid was over in some of these Bantustans, because they were independent states. Were they? No. Of course not.

Some of the bantustans received 'independence'. In South Africa, Transkei, Venda, Bophuthatswana, and Ciskei (the so-called TBVC states) were declared independent, while others (like KwaZulu, Lebowa, and QwaQwa), received partial autonomy, but were never granted independence. In South-West Africa, Ovamboland, Kavangoland, and East Caprivi were granted self-determination. The condition of sovereign independent states was not recognised outside of South Africa.

There are other comparisons, too. Such as the Apartheid regime's demands that its victims renounce violence before talks can be considered and the all too slow growth of disapproval around the world. But the disapproval did come.

Israel, through its own actions (some of which it allows Hamas to dictate), is on the road to a one-state solution.

 

[FireGarden]

No idea. None at all. :|

Israeli governments on the left and right argued that the settlements were of strategic and tactical importance. The location of the settlements was primarily chosen based on the threat of an attack by the bordering hostile countries of Jordan, Syria, and Egypt and possible routes of advance into Israeli population areas

Are you suggesting that the settlements were an attempt to put civilians in the line of fire? Is that really your answer to the question "why were the settlements built and subsidised so poor people would move there?"

The settlements were built because there are many Israelis (and Americans) who believe that all the land in the area should belong to Israel. Olmert (having no political future, so what the hell) recently made a few comments:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1020929.html

When did the dream of "Greater Israel" end?

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Yes. I'm not saying it's right. Also: Er, so that's OK? I don't honestly care what they think, and if they want to live there, they can. At this point, all Isreal needs to do is go 'yeah, most of them belong to Palestine.'

.. since apparently they're selfacting as their own police (the settlers)

 

[BirdStrike]

Israel has the right to control its border with Gaza, just as Canada has the right to control its border with the US. However, if Canada decides to also blockade the US coast and takes control of all air travel in and out of the US, then the situation would be a bit different, wouldn't it? Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?

I dunno why it's so "difficult for me to comprehend" giving air and sea control to an Internationally-recognized Islamist terror organization. I guess I am just really really stupid.

 

[Skeptic]

Are you suggesting that the settlements were an attempt to put civilians in the line of fire?

Of course, the Palestinians could have defeated this evil plan by not killing civilians.

But hey, killing civilians randomly is what Palestinians do.