Israeli blockade 'forces Palestinians to search rubbish dumps for food'

[Thunder]

Denial dude. Israel wants all of Palestine. Period.

Is that why Olmert offered Abbas 93% of the West Bank?

Is that why Netanyahu pulled out of 80% of Hebron?

Is that why Barak offered Arafat 90% of the West Bank?

Because Israel wants ALL of Palestine?

Your posts do not fly with reality my friend.

 

[gdnp]

I took Tailgater's comment more to mean an analogy with the USA 2004 election: you don't want Bush re-elected, so you're going to vote Kerry, even though your heart goes out more to Nader.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier, only better phrased.

http://www.jmcc.org/publicpoll/results/2006/no57.pdf

Thanks. Interesting figures.

I found this one especially interesting:

When asked why they chose Hamas, the highest ratio (43.0%) of Palestinians who voted for Hamas said they did vote for Hamas with the hope of ending the corruption and a ratio of (18.8%) voted for Hamas for religious reasons. Only (11.8%) voted for Hamas because of its political agenda.

No, that can't be right. BirdStrike has assured us that Gazans voted for Hamas because they are evil and wish to destroy Israel and thus must be punished.

And so that gullible Westerners like gdnp would see them as charity workers first and foremost. It's amazing how successful they were.

Actually, I think it is far more logical to conclude that the aid was directed towards trying to win the hearts and minds of the Palestinian people, as they were the ones voting in the election. The average American couldn't find Gaza on a map or distinguish Hamas from Likud. I coubt other westerners are much better informed.

Stealing aid is very prevalent, I'm surprised it is so hard for some people to understand.

Aid is a valuable commodity. It can be resold to enrich the thieves and to fund military and criminal activity. It can be stolen in order to be distributed freely by the thieves - this allows the thieves to appear to be the ones who actually provided the aid in the first place, can ensure that only their supporters get the aid or can be used to give the impression that they could in the future cut off the aid to those who don't support them today. Aid can also be used by the thieves directly to feed their troops or leaders and the savings can be used to fund their other activities.

Thank you for expanding on the points I made earlier. As an aside, I was wondering which of my posts led you to believe that I think that "Hamas are charity workers first and foremost?" The ones where I said they had stolen the food, or the ones where I called them terrorists?

 

[WildCat]

I found this one especially interesting:

And I'm sure most of David Duke's supporters will tell you they voted for him because of his tax policy and stance on budget matters.

 

[a_unique_person]

And I'm sure most of David Duke's supporters will tell you they voted for him because of his tax policy and stance on budget matters.

Do you have any reason to doubt what they said, other than imposing your own point of view on what happened?

 

[WildCat]

Do you have any reason to doubt what they said, other than imposing your own point of view on what happened?

Yes. Out of the 11 parties in the 2006 PA election, only 1 of them wasn't founded by terrorists. And that one did poorly.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Your posts do not fly with reality my friend.

If everyone's posts in this forum flew with reality there wouldn't be anyone defending the actions of Israel Against the Palestinians.

Is that why Olmert offered Abbas 93% of the West Bank?

Is that why Netanyahu pulled out of 80% of Hebron?

Is that why Barak offered Arafat 90% of the West Bank?

'Offered' isn't reality it's just lip service.

Hebron is just one city. Just because Israel has occupied a lot and then gave *some of it back* it doesn't mean that it's eventual aim is to get the lot.

Here's a question for YOU parky...

Would you *prefer* that Israel had the lot? Be honest now.

 

[Thunder]

I

Here's a question for YOU parky...

Would you *prefer* that Israel had the lot? Be honest now.

Sure I would. It would be wonderful if the West Bank wasn't home to 4 million Palestinians. Israel is a very crowded country.

But the fact is, the Palestinians live there, so that land cannot belong to Israel.

Now, how about you show some guts and honestly answer my question about Blair and Condi in the other section.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Sure I would. It would be wonderful if the West Bank wasn't home to 4 million Palestinians. Israel is a very crowded country.

If it's about sheer density ...

So you'd be happy if there wre 4 million less Jews instead of 4 million less Arabs?

But the fact is, the Palestinians live there, so that land cannot belong to Israel.

Now, how about you show some guts and honestly answer my question about Blair and Condi in the other section.

No guts required. You're question was loaded by introducing an irrelevant variable.

 

[Thunder]

I
So you'd be happy if there wre 4 million less Jews instead of 4 million less Arabs?
No guts required. You're question was loaded by introducing an irrelevant variable.

I wish Israel wasn't needed at all. But it is. Cause non-Jews seem to be unable to get along with us. Every 50 years or so there is another massive massacre. We are about due another one.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

I wish Israel wasn't needed at all. But it is. Cause non-Jews seem to be unable to get along with us. Every 50 years or so there is another massive massacre. We are about due another one.

That's sounds like the paranoid mindset of Skeptic who thinks everyone's out to get Jews.

 

[gtc]

Thank you for expanding on the points I made earlier. As an aside, I was wondering which of my posts led you to believe that I think that "Hamas are charity workers first and foremost?" The ones where I said they had stolen the food, or the ones where I called them terrorists?

This is the post that made me realise what a sucker you were for their propoganda:

Let's see. Since Fatah is also in opposition to Israel, I would assume that the people voted for Hamas because of the way they differed from Fatah, not because of how they were similar.

Now, how did they differ? Oh, I guess that would be because Fatah was corrupt and because Hamas provided welfare, schools, and nurseries.

Yeah, those evil Gazans. The people spoke. They voted for welfare, schools, and nurseries over corruption. They need to be punished.

You have completely ignored the differences between Hamas and Fatah's rhetoric and actions towards Israel.

 

[gdnp]

You have completely ignored the differences between Hamas and Fatah's rhetoric and actions towards Israel.

rhetoric and actions have varied over time. I seem to recall that not so long ago the argument was that we should not negotiate with the PLO because they were a terrorist organization and because the Palestinian National Covenant called for the destruction of the state of Israel. Has it been amended?

So whereas you can make an argument that Hamas and the PLO currently differ in degree they certainly seem similar in kind.

 

[gtc]

rhetoric and actions have varied over time. I seem to recall that not so long ago the argument was that we should not negotiate with the PLO because they were a terrorist organization and because the Palestinian National Covenant called for the destruction of the state of Israel. Has it been amended?

No it hasn't. They claim the more offensive bits are no longer part of the Covenant but they still post them on their website, at least the last time I checked.

So whereas you can make an argument that Hamas and the PLO currently differ in degree they certainly seem similar in kind.

The difference is the degree to which they are prepared to prosecute the war against Israel and the vigour with which they pursue it.

 

[DC]

I wish Israel wasn't needed at all. But it is. Cause non-Jews seem to be unable to get along with us. Every 50 years or so there is another massive massacre. We are about due another one.

what?
i dont think that is the case.

Here in Basel for example Jews can live very peacefully, stleast thats what i thought, they have a relative big community here , a very nice synagoge.

I think the times changed alot.

 

[a_unique_person]

I wish Israel wasn't needed at all. But it is. Cause non-Jews seem to be unable to get along with us. Every 50 years or so there is another massive massacre. We are about due another one.

IMHO, the safest place for Jews is outside Israel. Plenty of Jews in Australia, including Holocaust survivors.

 

[gtc]

what?
i dont think that is the case.

Here in Basel for example Jews can live very peacefully, stleast thats what i thought, they have a relative big community here , a very nice synagoge.

I think the times changed alot.

Well, I would hope they have changed since the Pogrom of 1348.

However, there was a WWII era anti-semitic flyer posted on a kosher butcher in Basel last month.

 

[DC]

Well, I would hope they have changed since the Pogrom of 1348.

However, there was a WWII era anti-semitic flyer posted on a kosher butcher in Basel last month.

mmh ok i retract my answer. ****ing neonazis....

on the other hand we have a also a big left side that is oposing those neoNazis.

ETA: is this wrongly translated? or do you say in english, Dont buy Jews?

kauft nicht bei Juden" (Don't buy Jews!).

shoudnt it be, dont buy from jews? (i know, it is also wrong moraly, but i mean the spelling.)

 

[DC]

im ashamed, didnt know about the latest crap done by local NeoNazis.

but in defense of my city i want to add that we have the oldest german talking jewish community of the world.
they had theyr 200 year anniversary this year.
http://www.igb.ch/

 

[gtc]

mmh ok i retract my answer. ****ing neonazis....

on the other hand we have a also a big left side that is oposing those neoNazis.

ETA: is this wrongly translated? or do you say in english, Dont buy Jews?


shoudnt it be, dont buy from jews? (i know, it is also wrong moraly, but i mean the spelling.)

They seem like isolated incidents; I don't think they represent Basel.

And the the translation is incorrect - buying Jews would be slavery. Buying from Jews is buying things that Jewish people sell.

 

[DC]

They seem like isolated incidents; I don't think they represent Basel.

And the the translation is incorrect - buying Jews would be slavery. Buying from Jews is buying things that Jewish people sell.

no they dont represent Basel.
But the NeoNazis are not uncommon in this region.
thats why we also have a very active AntiFa, a counter movement against the neoNazis. Which is also an extreme group, just not right, but left. to often it gets violent. alot abuse the AntiFa just to get a good fight now and then. Thats why i left them, many years ago.