How 9/11 was done

[Dr Adequate]

Here are recordings from real people in distress, the people trapped in the Twin Towers:
Kevin Cosgrove: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK8qJ1cJ9EA
Woman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QsdUevUQgk

They are able to dial a number and have a rational conversation. But they are clearly in distress. There is emotion in their voices because they are in immanent danger.

Yes, imminent danger.

The callers from flight93 supposedly knew that the other planes had flown into the Twin Towers and they could have figured out that a similar fate was waiting them and still they sounded like they were ordering a pizza or waging a 'crank call'.

Yeah, but what they were experiencing was sitting in a plane. What do you think they should have done? --- phoned home and screamed "OHMIGODMIGOD WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!"

I think that you are the one who needs some extra studying of human nature.

And he's not the only one. Let us consider the recipients of the phone calls. They, unlike you, got to hear the phone calls. They, unlike you, knew the people making the calls. They, unlike you, all accept the calls as genuine. And all you had to go on was no, zero, zilch knowledge of the victims, a couple of phrases cherry-picked out of newspaper articles --- and, of course, your vast, immense knowledge of human nature.

 

[Dr Adequate]

You guys are not easy to convince. Here is another gem:

Voice morphing:
First hear the real voice, then:
2:08 - same voice morphed into a child's voice
2:49 - likewise into an other man's voice
2:57 - likewise into a woman's voice

Let me know if you're still not satisfied.

Oh look, you found another gizmo that doesn't do what you need it to. Golly, there's a lot of those, aren't there?

This one alters your voice, allowing you to pretend not to be yourself, but does not morph to the voice of some other person, allowing you to pretend to be them.

Just stick it next to the thing that doesn't work in real time and the karaoke machine, would you?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

This is not accurate, actually. Silverstein's company leased buildings 1, 2, 4 and 5 from the PANYNJ, but the PANYNJ maintained ownership of both the land and the buildings. What Silverstein Properties purchased from the PANYNJ was a 99 year leasehold interest in those four buildings; it did not purchase the buildings or the land. Silverstein Properties became, in essence, a master lessor and the tenants became sub-lessees to that leasehold interest. The terms of the 99 year lease between Silverstein Properties and the PANYNJ are what require Silverstein Properties to continue to pay rent to the PANYNJ despite the destruction of the buildings, just as the terms of the 99 year lease required Silverstein Properties to insure the buildings, etc.

Well, as I noted above, I'm finding information going both ways, some outright calling him "owner", and some calling him "leaseholder". So I admit to confusion at the moment.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Oh look, you found another gizmo that doesn't do what you need it to. Golly, there's a lot of those, aren't there?

This one alters your voice, allowing you to pretend not to be yourself, but does not morph to the voice of some other person, allowing you to pretend to be them.

Just stick it next to the thing that doesn't work in real time and the karaoke machine, would you?

I already proved that high quality voice morphing existed two and a half year before 9/11.

The only issue you fell over was the near real-time processing. The 'gizmo's' I have pointed to prove that real-time voice morphing does exist now, done by cheap software that anybody can download running on cheap home computers. I am not going to hunt for the manual to see if the package allows voice morphing against a voice that the user collects himself, rather than using the standard voices that the package delivers. It does not matter. I never claimed that the Mossad used MorphVOX Pro. The issue was processing speed.

 

[Confuseling]

RE phone calls, I don't know too many details about what's supposed to have happened, but it seems to me that if there were a group of people huddling at the back of the plane, planning to rush the cockpit, and knowing they had a limited window of opportunity / probability to communicate with the outside world, they would 'elect' the calmer people among them to do so.

Not really comparable with a much larger number of people, all with cell-phone reception, with no particular impediment to all at least attempting to get a connection, and nothing to lose.

(Sorry if already mentioned - there's no chance I'm reading this thread, evah! )

 

[lapman]

Here are recordings from real people in distress, the people trapped in the Twin Towers:
Kevin Cosgrove: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK8qJ1cJ9EA
Woman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QsdUevUQgk

They are able to dial a number and have a rational conversation. But they are clearly in distress. There is emotion in their voices because they are in immanent danger.

The callers from flight93 supposedly knew that the other planes had flown into the Twin Towers and they could have figured out that a similar fate was waiting them and still they sounded like they were ordering a pizza or waging a 'crank call'.

I think that you are the one who needs some extra studying of human nature.

Wow! So much stupid in just a few paragraphs. There is no comparing the two. On he 911 calls, the people couldn't breath and, as Bell noted, death was immanent and basically unavoidable. They also couldn't breath which adds to their stress level. On 93, they were already planning the takeover, so there was, in their minds, real hope of survival. The plane was not plummeting towards the earth on fire. So their calmness was not unusual. So, keep grasping at those straws. BTW, where is the sound of the explosives on those 911 calls from the towers?

 

[Sparky]

Read the link in post #1255; what you say matches with the observed 'calmness' (read: lack of emotion) that all recipients observed. 'Crank call', like 'ordering a pizza'. It was not just the inability of the Mossad agent to play a dramatic role, it was the voice morphing software that gave the voices a machine-like equalized quality.

Nice evasion. Did you even read my post? The point I'm trying to make is that YOUR accent, inflection and pronunciation would NEVER match my "Iowa Farmboy" way of speaking even if you could match the frequency and timbre of my voice.

 

[Dave Rogers]

The only issue you fell over was the near real-time processing.

No, that's the issue you fell over.

The 'gizmo's' I have pointed to prove that real-time voice morphing does exist now, done by cheap software that anybody can download running on cheap home computers. I am not going to hunt for the manual to see if the package allows voice morphing against a voice that the user collects himself, rather than using the standard voices that the package delivers. It does not matter. I never claimed that the Mossad used MorphVOX Pro. The issue was processing speed.

You're trying to demonstrate that a system could have existed on 9/11 that would allow real-time voice morphing against a sample that could have reasonably been collected in advance of the operation, and so far you're clearly failing to do so. You've declined to comment on the fact that in at least three instances there is very little chance that a sample could have been collected, you've highlighted a system that could voice-morph to a sample but not in real time, and you've highlighted a system that could voice-morph in real time but you don't care whether it can morph to a sample, a vastly more complex task than simply morphing to an arbitrary voice. And your answer to people pointing out that this is a hole in your evidence is "It does not matter". Again, of your aim really was to refine your theory, you'd be looking for replies to these criticisms, rather than dismissing them. What is your real purpose here, if you even know it yourself?

Dave

 

[Dr Adequate]

I already proved that high quality voice morphing existed two and a half year before 9/11.

No. Voice morphing takes a voice as input.

What you have there is a speech synthesizer.

The only issue you fell over was the near real-time processing. The 'gizmo's' I have pointed to prove that real-time voice morphing does exist now, done by cheap software that anybody can download running on cheap home computers.

One of your gizmos works in real time, but does not imitate a sample voice. The other gizmo imitates a sample voice, but does not work in real time.

If you wish to convince me that pigs have wings, it is not sufficient to point me towards (a) a pig and (b) a chicken. Collectively they have the properties you require, since one is a pig (but does not have wings) and the other has wings (but is not a pig); however, they do not add up to a pig with wings.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Nice evasion. Did you even read my post? The point I'm trying to make is that YOUR accent, inflection and pronunciation would NEVER match my "Iowa Farmboy" way of speaking even if you could match the frequency and timbre of my voice.

Read this again to learn that in Los Alamos they were able to produce an impressive Colin Powell impersonation on the basis of somebody else his voice.

 

[9/11-investigator]

No, that's the issue you fell over.

You're trying to demonstrate that a system could have existed on 9/11 that would allow real-time voice morphing against a sample that could have reasonably been collected in advance of the operation, and so far you're clearly failing to do so.

I politely disagree.

You've declined to comment on the fact that in at least three instances there is very little chance that a sample could have been collected,

Again disagree.

you've highlighted a system that could voice-morph to a sample but not in real time,

near real time is the correct phrase. That's real time by the end of 2001 given the speed of progress in computing powers around 2000.

and you've highlighted a system that could voice-morph in real time but you don't care whether it can morph to a sample, a vastly more complex task than simply morphing to an arbitrary voice.

I fail to see the difference of morphing an input voice against a 'prepackaged voice' or against, say, Colin Powell.

Again, of your aim really was to refine your theory, you'd be looking for replies to these criticisms, rather than dismissing them.

I think I did respond to criticism by searching a new example.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Read this again to learn that in Los Alamos they were able to produce an impressive Colin Powell impersonation on the basis of somebody else his voice.

But not in real time.

Sparky complains that the pig you showed him doesn't have wings, so you point to your chicken and say: "Look, it has wings!"

That's as may be. But it's not a pig.

 

[Dr Adequate]

near real time is the correct phrase. That's real time by the end of 2001 given the speed of progress in computing powers around 2000.

And yet the inventor of that package has not made that progress, nor have you been able to find anyone else who has.

This suggests that the information you just made up about "the speed of progress in computer powers" is not accurate.

Once more, reality trumps what you imagine ought to have happened.

I fail to see the difference of morphing an input voice against a 'prepackaged voice' or against, say, Colin Powell.

You do, don't you?

It is not, strictly speaking, being "morphed against a pre-packaged voice". The program is not based on voice samples.

What it allows you to do is put your voice through a filter that tweaks its pitch and timbre and add things like echos and background noise. It's a special effects package.

To morph to a target voice it would have to break down the input into phonemes, interpret those as English words, and then stick together prerecorded phonemes from the target forming these words in such a manner as to sound natural. In real time.

Your latest gizmo does none of this.

 

[CHF]

I already proved that high quality voice morphing existed two and a half year before 9/11.

The only issue you fell over was the near real-time processing. The 'gizmo's' I have pointed to prove that real-time voice morphing does exist now, done by cheap software that anybody can download running on cheap home computers. I am not going to hunt for the manual to see if the package allows voice morphing against a voice that the user collects himself, rather than using the standard voices that the package delivers. It does not matter. I never claimed that the Mossad used MorphVOX Pro. The issue was processing speed.

K.

So how did this voice-morphing technology know the names of victims' family members or, in one case, the combination of a safe?

 

[dtugg]

in one case, the combination of a safe?

Well the joooooos bought a safe from Walmart and broke into this lady's house and planted the safe there with a fake will inside. Then come 9/11, they called her sister and gave her that safe combo.

Seriously. I told him about this phone call many pages ago and this was his response. It is very damaging to his ridiculous, totally unfounded, libelous jooooo job fantasy, so of course he had to make some more crap up.

What if the jooooos got caught planting the safe? What if this lady's family knew she had no safe (or a different one)? What if they discovered that the will was fake? The jooooos went to all this trouble and took all this risk because apparently, this one phone call that very few people have even heard of is what makes or breaks the "OCT."

I think he also implied that the jooooos might have paid this lady's sister $100,000 or so to lie about the whole thing. This might be the most disgusting, libelous things he has said in this thread (and he has said a lot of disgusting, libelous things).

 

[Sabrina]

Here are recordings from real people in distress, the people trapped in the Twin Towers:
Kevin Cosgrove: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK8qJ1cJ9EA
Woman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QsdUevUQgk

They are able to dial a number and have a rational conversation. But they are clearly in distress. There is emotion in their voices because they are in immanent danger.

The callers from flight93 supposedly knew that the other planes had flown into the Twin Towers and they could have figured out that a similar fate was waiting them and still they sounded like they were ordering a pizza or waging a 'crank call'.

I think that you are the one who needs some extra studying of human nature.

*arches a brow* Bless you child, but with every post you show your ignorance. And last I checked, I actually HAVE made a study of human nature; I possess a bachelor's degree in psychology which, while it by no means makes me an expert in the field, clearly gives me a heck of a lot more knowledge than you. Unless you plan to suddenly haul a masters or doctorate degree in the field out of your butt, you might want to start paying some attention to what I'm saying here, Sparky.

Long and the short of it: YOU. ARE. WRONG. About every single one of those ridiculous points you raise about the phone calls. Get over it, accept it, and move on for FSM's sake. Your insistence on ludicrous technologies and dubious assertions about how the passengers should sound and react to the situation (which have CLEARLY been influenced by Hollywood and/or whatever your local movie making enterprise is over there in Amsterdam) are getting more and more desperate with every post you make on the matter, and does your credibility no good. What WOULD do your credibility on this board some good (since you're clearly seeking validation from everyone here, or you wouldn't be sticking around) is to man up and accept the evidence that has been shown to you time and again that refutes and outright disproves most, if not all, of your points. Think you can possibly handle that?

 

[Bell]

Hey 9/11-investigator!

I have three questions for you:

1.) How did you came to the conclusion that Jack Grandcolas' simile about ordering a pizza must imply that Lauren's phonecall was faked, without asking Jack what he meant with that simile?
Post

2.) How do you explain this not so 'shockingly calm' phonecall?

Peter Hanson made a second phone call to his father at 09:00:
"It's getting bad, Dad. A stewardess was stabbed. They seem to have knives and Mace. They said they have a bomb. It's getting very bad on the plane. Passengers are throwing up and getting sick. The plane is making jerky movements. I don't think the pilot is flying the plane. I think we are going down. I think they intend to go to Chicago or someplace and fly into a building. Don't worry, Dad. If it happens, it'll be very fast....Oh My God.., oh my God, oh my God."
As the call abruptly ended, Hanson's father heard a woman screaming.

Source
Post

3.) How do you compare the calls made by Kevin Cosgrove and Melissa Doi to the calls made by the passengers? (as asked in this post)

Thank you for answering.

 

[9/11-investigator]

But not in real time.

Sparky complains that the pig you showed him doesn't have wings, so you point to your chicken and say: "Look, it has wings!"

That's as may be. But it's not a pig.

You're a tough cookie but I smell it's Händel time again soon.

Again, slowly, step by step...

Here is my source of information.

Question to the good doctor and 'Iowa farm boy' Sparky:

Do you agree yes/no that in 1999 Los Alamos was able to perform high quality voice morphing, taking a 10 minute sample voice as input to produce in near real-time an impressive Colin Powell impersonation?

2-3 letter responses suffice.

If you have given the 'yes'-answer than I will duplicate that answer to avoid post-editting and ask a follow-up question.

Then I will again post a youtube link to Händel's "Rejoice Greatly Daughter of Zion" as a sort of reward.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Hey 9/11-investigator!

I have three questions for you:

1.) How did you came to the conclusion that Jack Grandcolas' simile about ordering a pizza must imply that Lauren's phonecall was faked, without asking Jack what he meant with that simile?
Post

I don't say that the 'pizza ordering tone' implies that the phone call was fake. It just adds up. The real reason why these calls are fake is that they were impossible in the first place. Read this: Federal Bureau of Investigation. 2001. Interview with Deena Lynne Burnett. Here mrs. Burnett testifies that she received no less than 5 cell phone calls from her husband. At the time of the first call UA93 was still at 35,000 feet or some other stratospheric location. Later during the Massoui trial the FBI would testify that in all 4 flights only 2 cell phones calls succeeded, from UA93. Gotcha!

2.) How do you explain this not so 'shockingly calm' phonecall?

Source
Post

Yes, the Mossad managed to add some drama to 1 or 2 phone calls. However, all the calls should have this dramatic quality, which was not the case.

3.) How do you compare the calls made by Kevin Cosgrove and Melissa Doi to the calls made by the passengers? (as asked in this post)

Thank you for answering.

As I said: the phone calls from WTC were real calls from real people in real agony. Although I don't hear them cough, they are probably in smoke filled locations with air hot as in a sauna, holding handkerchief's before their mouths and are unable to descend from the staircases because these are probably more smoke filled then the office spaces they are in. The people from UA93 are in no immediate physical threat, but they know that they are about to die as well (even more so than the people trapped in WTC) and the fact that the dying will take place in the White House or Capitol Hill will be of very small solace indeed. However, almost nobody reaches anywhere the same level of anxiety like the WTC calls. Reason: the calls were fake. For the people who want to argue that the passengers were calm because they had the perspective to survive, this is contrary to the official story which portrays the action of the passengers as an act of self-sacrifice. If they had to die anyway then in a field and not in the West Wing.

 

[Bell]

I don't say that the 'pizza ordering tone' implies that the phone call was fake. It just adds up. The real reason why these calls are fake is that they were impossible in the first place. Read this: Federal Bureau of Investigation. 2001. Interview with Deena Lynne Burnett. Here mrs. Burnett testifies that she received no less than 5 cell phone calls from her husband. At the time of the first call UA93 was still at 35,000 feet or some other stratospheric location. Later during the Massoui trial the FBI would testify that in all 4 flights only 2 cell phones calls succeeded, from UA93. Gotcha!

It's not the point if in your believe it all adds up. Mr. Grandcolas used the phrase 'ordering a pizza' but you don't know what the context was in which he used that phrase. All we know is that he meant that Lauren sounded calm. But sounded calm compared to what?

About the cell phone calls made or not made from UA93, I leave that to others, I don't know about the technical posssibilities (but it probably has been discussed in this forum before).

Yes, the Mossad managed to add some drama to 1 or 2 phone calls. However, all the calls should have this dramatic quality, which was not the case.

First, you have no proof that the Mossad placed the calls.

Second, according to you, the Mossad, in an effort to make the phonecalls sound more genuine, thought about adding drama to the phonecalls on a few occasions, but conveniently forgot to do so in all the others? What, did they not attend to 'overacting 101' class?

As I said: the phone calls from WTC were real calls from real people in real agony. Although I don't hear them cough, they are probably in smoke filled locations with air hot as in a sauna, holding handkerchief's before their mouths and are unable to descend from the staircases because these are probably more smoke filled then the office spaces they are in. The people from UA93 are in no immediate physical threat, but they know that they are about to die as well (even more so than the people trapped in WTC) and the fact that the dying will take place in the White House or Capitol Hill will be of very small solace indeed. However, almost nobody reaches anywhere the same level of anxiety like the WTC calls. Reason: the calls were fake. For the people who want to argue that the passengers were calm because they had the perspective to survive, this is contrary to the official story which portrays the action of the passengers as an act of self-sacrifice. If they had to die anyway then in a field and not in the West Wing.

The big difference offcource being that the people trapped at the WTC suffered from emminent danger to their physical being, and where very likely feeling pain, ie. feeling the immense heat from the fires below and suffered from the smoke filled air. Whereas on board the planes no such conditions occured.