Vision From Feeling

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Also, to sum up some aspects of the discussion regarding restricted portions of anatomy being on view we should remind ourselves that this is all to control, as far as possible, any potential for cold reading.

So I guess we should simply ask Anita - what is the smallest amount of the person required to be seen for specific ailments?

Could, for example, anything (e.g. high cholesterol levels, medication etc.)be detected from a small section of forearm exposed through a hole?
What if it were covered by cloth?
What if the view were restricted to a person's torso?
Could the vasectomy identification be done by viewing only the (clothed) groin area?

Without answers to these questions at this point we are just guessing between ourselves.
 
Ashles said:
We've had at least two pages now discussing between ourselves possible interpretations of requirements, suggesting and debating protocols, test subjects, bare skin v clothed skin etc.

And that is Anita's entire contribution?

Is there a lot of point us debating what might or might not be eligable/testable if Anita isn't involved in helping narrow down the protocol requirements? I'm aware she has spent a good while responding on this hread but this is the stage where we are actually describing viable protocols which surely is the most important part.

At least she could have told us whether she can potentially get a reading from cloth covered skin if viewed through a small hole (let's assume we are using a comparable group of test subjects).
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Finals week, man. Have patience.

http://www.registrar.uncc.edu/calendars/calendar.asp
Last day of classes December 9
Final Examinations December 11-18
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Old man said:
FYI - some info from the college that Anita is attending.
http://www.psych.uncc.edu/handbk/hbunvreq.htm#dmjr


http://physics.uncc.edu/academics/graduate/m.s.-applied-physics.html
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No, she is not attending the psych college, those requirements to not apply to her.

http://www.provost.uncc.edu/Catalogs/2007-2009/acadregs.htm#MAJOR_AND_MINORS
Second Baccalaureate Major. Students who have earned a bachelor's degree from UNC Charlotte or are working on a bachelor's degree at UNC Charlotte may enroll in a program leading to a second major under the same degree provided: (1) the second major field selected is different from the first; (2) the student meets the requirements for acceptance into the second major program; and (3) the appropriate application for admission or "Declaration of Program" is filed and approved.
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Here is an (uninformative) link to undergrad research in the chemistry department:
http://www.chemistry.uncc.edu/undergrad-programs/undergrad-research.html

And while these don't apply exactly to here situation, here is a page on dual degrees in physics and an engineering degree. Note they say because of the overlap, the degree can be completed in 4 years (not the 3 specified by whatever poster I was responding to). It stands to reason that a disparate set of degrees such as physics and chemistry would be 5 years.
http://physics.uncc.edu/academics/undergraduate/dual-degree.html

So, we have 4 year programs, multiple independent evidence for dual degrees, evidence of undergrad research. What's the quibble?
 
Locknar, you're not seriously suggesting that Anita is claiming to be able to detect vasectomies in both men and women, are you? While the idea that she may "detect" a vasectomy with a female subject has its merits, insisting that women be included in such a test does not.
 
Ducky said:
Stop bringing logic and reason into it. This is obviously a thread meant to be candyland to the incarnations from white-dwarf stars seeking attention. As such, you should pander accordingly. Let's all put on our silly hats.
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No Ducky, no one who has brought a thread this far (except the bigfoot rascals) that should be pandered accordingly. VFF deserves the benefit of the doubt until her next test. No one has backed her off -- least of all you.


Locknar said:
Of course it can. Her claim is she can see reproductive organs, etc. not just vasectomies in men. In that context certainly she can tell if a woman has or has not had a vasectomy...or if a room with no light if anyone is there at all.

She has made multiple claims, being able to see through clothes and boxes, etc. between her threads here, her website, Skeptic Groups, protocols....
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Stop being such a prude. There is no shame for whatever reason you feel shame towards having someone look through your clothes. I'll take VFF's test and let the cards fly and you should suck it up and be exposed for whatever reason it is you are afraid of.
 
Senex said:
Stop being such a prude. There is no shame for whatever reason you feel shame towards having someone look through your clothes. I'll take VFF's test and let the cards fly and you should suck it up and be exposed for whatever reason it is you are afraid of.
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Huh? Locknar's point, throughout all this debate, had nothing to do with the issues of modesty and/or shame. Where are you getting that? :confused:
 
desertgal said:
Huh? Locknar's point, throughout all this debate, had nothing to do with the issues of modesty and/or shame. Where are you getting that? :confused:
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Oh yeah, Locknar put you up to this didn't he? He is too modest/shamed to stick up for himself. Just try and look through his clothes. He runs for the hills.

The place I'm getting at is that as skeptics of this site we should embrace VFF's challenge. I'm game to play the circumcised or not game. Where do I show up? You doubters have lost the simple joys in life.
 
Senex said:
Oh yeah, Locknar put you up to this didn't he? He is too modest/shamed to stick up for himself. Just try and look through his clothes. He runs for the hills.

The place I'm getting at is that as skeptics of this site we should embrace VFF's challenge. I'm game to play the circumcised or not game. Where do I show up? You doubters have lost the simple joys in life.
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Alrighty then.....
 
Senex said:
......Snip (no pun intended)

The place I'm getting at is that as skeptics of this site we should embrace VFF's challenge. I'm game to play the circumcised or not game. Where do I show up? You doubters have lost the simple joys in life.
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If she comes out to Hollywood, and the timing is right, I'll volunteer as well.
 
roger said:
This is completely wrong. I know plenty of people who have done two bachelor degrees at the same time, and they are in no way constrained in the say you say. You could do a Bachelor of Chemistry and a Bachelor of Interior Design, should you wish. My cousin did, if I remember correctly, physics and anthropology, and guess what, it took him 5 years. A typical BSc takes 4 years in the States, and 2 majors often take 5, because of the diverse number of requirements. For example, where I went to college, it was trivial to have a double Comp Sci and Math major because Math just required 2 more courses than the Comp Sci course if you chose everything carefully. A Comp Sci and EE degree was just possible in 4 years, if you chose every course rigorously and overloaded every semester. Other choices definitely lead to 5 years.

And no research? Depends on the school - many require some kind of thesis. It's definitely not anywhere on the PhD level, but you have to do some research and write up a little thesis. A quick google will show this to be so. For just one of hundreds of examples, google "UVA bachelor thesis".

You are not just nitpicking, but you are making false claims about the US educational system.
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No you misunderstood me, if you read my post again I didn't say that you can't do two different bachelors at the same time (in fact I did science and arts at the same time - we call it a dual degree) - but you can't do two bachelor of science at the same time (or two of any exact same degree at the same time). You do one Bachelor of Science, with two different majors (ex: physics, chemistry)...or a double major (ex: psyc, psyc). Maybe she is just confused, and means two majors. And yeah you can do (over here it's optional..not sure about the US) a research project in final year, but it's not really proper research as much as a big literature review and a few experiments that you are baby spooned. As far as not understanding education in the states, fair enough - I'm from the UK and I went to Uni and live in Australia, but I'm fairly sure you can't do two concurrent BSc.
 
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Anna,

The terms "dual degree" and "joint degree" are not uncommon. Check out this link:
http://www.engr.pitt.edu/chemical/undergraduate/degreePrograms/dual_joint_degrees.html

Undergraduates in the Department of Bioengineering and Department of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering are currently exposed to curricula that have numerous common courses. This overlap makes pursuing a dual degree in bioengineering and chemical engineering a logical choice.
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We know Anita attends UNC Charlotte and is going for a BS in physics.
http://physics.uncc.edu/people/undergraduates/undergraduates.html

If she says she's going for a dual degree, we have no reason at this point to question her honesty. If there's something else going on with the semantics of what dual degree means, that's another issue. I don't think it's all that relevant myself.
 
UncaYimmy said:
Anna,

The terms "dual degree" and "joint degree" are not uncommon. Check out this link:



We know Anita attends UNC Charlotte and is going for a BS in physics.


If she says she's going for a dual degree, we have no reason at this point to question her honesty. If there's something else going on with the semantics of what dual degree means, that's another issue. I don't think it's all that relevant myself.
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Yeah I know dual degrees aren't uncommon, that wasn't what I was trying to say. I did one myself. What I was trying to say is that I've never heard of a dual degree of the same degree - as in - Bachelor of Science/Bachelor of Science...or Bachelor of Educaton/Bachelor of Education. Do you see what I mean? And that is what she claims to be doing. Now she may just be confusing a dual degree with a double major. And you are right about it not being relevant the original point I made was in the context of many points about her apparent lack of scientific knowledge. Sorry If I wasn't clear, I tend to babble inanely sometimes :o

p.s I had to delete the URLs in your original post otherwise I wasn't allowed to post my reply sorry
 
What I was trying to say is that I've never heard of a dual degree of the same degree - as in - Bachelor of Science/Bachelor of Science...or Bachelor of Educaton/Bachelor of Education. Do you see what I mean?
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I provided a link with this quote:
"Undergraduates in the Department of Bioengineering and Department of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering are currently exposed to curricula that have numerous common courses. This overlap makes pursuing a dual degree in bioengineering and chemical engineering a logical choice. "

Looks like dual Bachelor of Science degrees to me. Apparently MIT does it as well:
http://web.mit.edu/academic-guide/section_09.html

And the other one I posted:
http://www.engr.pitt.edu/chemical/undergraduate/degreePrograms/dual_joint_degrees.html

Maybe I'm missing something. Aren't these both dual bachelors of science degrees?
 
I wonder that if someone was born blind, and everyday he were to put a salt shaker in his hands.
Then in time, He Grows quite close to this little salt shaker, knowing every inch of it.
He always knew his salt shaker just by the feel of it.
Then suddenly many years later he regains his sight. and were to just see his salt shaker, would he recognized it? ...or would he need to pick it up?
If it was in the same location on his table would he recognize it just because of this fact.
...But he might need to feel the table first to.
Also If i was blind from birth how could you describe the color blue to me ?
and even if i thought that i did imagine the color blue after it was explained to me,
how could i explain what my vision of blue is, to you.
I know when i have had too many coffees. lol
 
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UncaYimmy said:
I provided a link with this quote:
"Undergraduates in the Department of Bioengineering and Department of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering are currently exposed to curricula that have numerous common courses. This overlap makes pursuing a dual degree in bioengineering and chemical engineering a logical choice. "

Looks like dual Bachelor of Science degrees to me. Apparently MIT does it as well:
http://web.mit.edu/academic-guide/section_09.html

And the other one I posted:
http://www.engr.pitt.edu/chemical/undergraduate/degreePrograms/dual_joint_degrees.html

Maybe I'm missing something. Aren't these both dual bachelors of science degrees?
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From your links it appears that you are right, Pittsburgh offers the dual and MIT used to but has now replaced it with a double major. I stand corrected, the system over here (Aus) is much different, my apologies :blush:
 
I can't quite see the connection to this thread, but I'll answer anyway - mods can split if it is too much of a derail.

JcR said:
I wonder that if someone was born blind, and everyday he were to put a salt shaker in his hands.
Then in time, He Grows quite close to this little salt shaker, knowing every inch of it.
He always knew his salt shaker just by the feel of it.
Then suddenly many years later he regains his sight. and were to just see his salt shaker, would he recognized it? ...or would he need to pick it up?
If it was in the same location on his table would he recognize it just because of this fact.
...But he might need to feel the table first to.
Also If i was blind from birth how could you describe the color blue to me ?
and even if i thought that i did imagine the color blue after it was explained to me,
how could i explain what my vision of blue is, to you.
I know when i have had too many coffees. lol
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Here's an example of a man blind from birth who regained his vision:

Intoxicated with a new world of colour and motion Bradford became terrified of the sights that he could not, in many cases, understand. He could not recognise humans, or many items he had hitherto perceived only by touch.
Before surgery Bradford was a skilled machinist, but upon gaining vision, he became confused and unable to work. He committed suicide two years after his operation
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Bradford

Some more cases mentioned here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquired_vision
 
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Wasn't last night VfF's first meeting with a skeptics group? I, for one, am excited to hear what happened. godofpie? ecarlson? VfF? I'm happy to hear a report from anyone.

Ward
 
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