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Waterboarding

sleeplessdwarf said:
With Cheney sitting in front of a reporter saying that he gave the go ahead on the methods used to extract information from KSM and others, I don't see how much more proof is needed.
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Was "slapping around" one of those methods? Naked pyramids? Sexual humiliation?
 
In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.

Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.

"The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.
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Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html

Should Nancy Pelosi and the other Congress critters present for that briefing likewise be charged with war crimes?
 
WildCat said:
Of course, torture is not allowed in any class of captured enemies and we could argue endlessly whether or not waterboarding is actually torture and probably no one would change their minds.
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Are you of the opinion that waterboarding is not torture?
 
Upchurch said:
That, in no way, relates to my question, but thank you for your input.
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Oh, you mean like when you suggested Laura Welch's accident was pertinent in the discussion about how Ted Kennedy has killed one (1) liberal and Ann Coulter has not killed any?
 
Upchurch said:
Are you of the opinion that waterboarding is not torture?
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It doesn't fit the meme of torture I have in my mind, though I admit it's a fuzzy line between what is and isn't torture. YMMV.

sleeplessdwarf said:
Absolutely. I believe that anyone who signs off on using torture should get the same punishment.
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You're consistent, and I can certainly respect that.
 
You are such an idealist. Dick Cheney is a realpolitik. :D I guess Henry Kissinger really was right about realpolitik many times it is the best choice.
 
What kind of methods do muslim countries use? Like Iran and Ahmadinejad and the crazy mullahs do not torture people in prison. Iran is much much worse than the USA.
 
under extremely strict conditions, with a doctor present, under strict time frames, i support very limited simulated drowning, of terror suspects thought to have knowledge of possible upcoming attacks.
 
moon1969 said:
What kind of methods do muslim countries use? Like Iran and Ahmadinejad and the crazy mullahs do not torture people in prison. Iran is much much worse than the USA.
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Iran? China? Egypt?

they rip off your finger nails.

the shock your testicles.

they rape u with sticks and dogs.

......and then if they think u might have some valuable information..then they begin to torture you.
 
parky76 said:
under extremely strict conditions, with a doctor present, under strict time frames, i support very limited simulated drowning, of terror suspects thought to have knowledge of possible upcoming attacks.
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I would support a pineapple up the rectum as long as the victim was played soothing music at the time...

you are either a supporter of torture or you are not. As we have seen, give a nod and a wink from on high....start talking about "acceptable" types of torture and out come the pineapples...

I think Australia is not yet on the list of Nations that torture and I like it that way. I would vote to throw out any politician that wanted us to Join the USA on the list of torturing nations.
 
The Fool said:
I would support a pineapple up the rectum as long as the victim was played soothing music at the time...

you are either a supporter of torture or you are not. As we have seen, give a nod and a wink from on high....start talking about "acceptable" types of torture and out come the pineapples...

I think Australia is not yet on the list of Nations that torture and I like it that way. I would vote to throw out any politician that wanted us to Join the USA on the list of torturing nations.
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so you are against ANY and ALL forms of physical, audio, video, and psychological pressure against a terror suspect?

how do you expect to get answers from a terrorist? threaten to call him bad names?
 
moon1969 said:
What kind of methods do muslim countries use? Like Iran and Ahmadinejad and the crazy mullahs do not torture people in prison. Iran is much much worse than the USA.
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Does it matter? Is anything justified so long as it is better than what the other guy does?
 
parky76 said:
so you are against ANY and ALL forms of physical, audio, video, and psychological pressure against a terror suspect?

how do you expect to get answers from a terrorist? threaten to call him bad names?
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I guess I am more on the side of being anti-physical torture. I do not in anyway compare loud music to waterboarding, unless the decibels are so high they melt the ear drum. I guess I see loud music/lack of sleep/etc as more of an annoyance than torture. As for moon's comment about other countries doing worse, :jaw-dropp.
 
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sleeplessdwarf said:
I guess I am more on the side of being anti-physical torture. I do not in anyway compare loud music to waterboarding, unless the decibels are so high they melt the ear drum. As for moon's comment about other countries doing worse, :jaw-dropp.
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well, some folks might consider playing Britney Spears at full volume, for 8 hours, with the suspect's hands tied behind his back, as torture.

i support any form of pressure, which will not leave any physical damage, as long as a doctor is present and it is limited in time.
 
sleeplessdwarf said:
I am pretty certain that waterboarding is not the only method we used as well. Maybe not burning with cigarettes but it would be a safe bet to say that we have slapped a few around with fist. (There were pictures of at least that much from the prisons in Iraq.)
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The infamous Abu Ghraib pictures were unrelated to any interrogations. Those prisoners were just common criminals, not insurgents or terrorists. So why would you think their treatment has any relevance to discussions about interrogation techniques?
 
Ziggurat said:
The infamous Abu Ghraib pictures were unrelated to any interrogations. Those prisoners were just common criminals, not insurgents or terrorists. So why would you think their treatment has any relevance to discussions about interrogation techniques?
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Probably because after listening to many troops who have returned from Iraq saying the same thing over and over, there seems to be a culture where this behavior is commonplace. These same soldiers claim that they often abused the prisoners due to the frustration they felt for losing a fellow soldier recently. Now you can say that all these guys are lying for attention, but since there has been many claiming the same thing, I am willing to give it the benefit of doubt.
 
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