How 9/11 was done

[9/11-investigator]

This was debunked by the very scientist in the article you linked to.

It's not debunked at all, because you have overlooked a possibility.

I originally developed the technology of voice morphing, the technology by which it is possible to make someone seem to say something they did not say (see [/SIZE]www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm ) and coined the phrase. Therefore, I know what would have been required to create such bogus calls. Practical considerations preclude making counterfeit telephone calls in this situation. For example, it is necessary to have samples of the voices of the people to be imitated. In situations like this, where the goal is to participate in an unconstrained conversation, the voice sample must be extensive. I cannot imagine how I might have obtained extensive samples of the voices of the passengers on Flight 93, especially not knowing which of them would call home.

That the good Dr. Papcun 'cannot imagine' is his problem. The ICT can easily explain how the 9/11 perps got their samples:

Trojan Horse.

Together, Verint and Amdocs form part of the backbone of the government's domestic intelligence surveillance technology. Both companies are based in Israel – having arisen to prominence from that country's cornering of the information technology market – and are heavily funded by the Israeli government, with connections to the Israeli military and Israeli intelligence (both companies have a long history of board memberships dominated by current and former Israeli military and intelligence officers). Verint is considered the world leader in "electronic interception" and hence an ideal private sector candidate for wiretap outsourcing.

Once the Mossad gets hold of the passenger lists they can pass it on to their buddies at Verint and in no time they can get hold on sound samples necessary for voice morphing. This connection is my little contribution to solving the 9/11 riddle (I emailed this idea to Bollyn and got an enthusiastic reply). So if his book 'solving 9/11' will come out look for this link and think: hey that's our 9/11-I's idea!

Additionally, in this situation it would be necessary to know what someone would say to his or her loved ones under such circumstances. What pet names would be used? What references would be made to children and other loved ones? Do believers actually suppose that the government (or I) listens in to everyone’s pillow talk? In a separate essay, I will cover the technical aspects of voice morphing, which will further demonstrate the implausibility of the scenario set forth by the purveyors of conspiracy theories.

Wrong: most conversations were one-way conversations where the caller was leading/dictating the conversation. There was no time for smalltalk or discuss little Joey's flu... the storyline was: 'Hi, here's Mark, I am in the plane, we're hijacked, please call the FBI, I love you. I have got to go. Bye. Click'.

Whether such wild-eyed theories are worth being concerned about is problematic. However, in their own words, their conspiracy theory organization “has grown from a cult following to a grassroots organism that can no longer be contained” (op cit). I have received email from a high school social studies teacher who told me that her students actually believe that I did everything the purveyors of conspiracy theories say I did. Why they would so mistrust their government and be so naïve with regard to technical issues are interesting questions, albeit matters well beyond the scope of this essay.

They are looking in the wrong direction. It was not the government that faked the calls... it was the Mossad whose reliance on deception is legendary, nay it is even a part of their motto: "by way of deception shalt thou wage war". And that's what they did bigtime on 9/11.

By a relative small investment of some 30-50 man years they got 1,000,000 military man year equivalant for free from the US taxpayer to clean out the Middle East in Israels advantage.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Why did the buildings need to fall at all then? The planes crashing into them would have caused significant damage even if it did not result in collapse and, I believe, the national response would have been similar as we were still attacked by terrorists who crashed our own planes into them.

Adding bombs to the building to collapse them is just needlessly complex and a sign of poor planning.

They needed to recreate Pearl Harbor (more than 2500 people killed) to obtain a similar mobilizing effect on the American society. The planes alone would create enough victims. And on top of that they needed to get rid of these asbestos riddled buildings on the cost of insurances companies from mainly German speaking territories like Germany and Switzerland.

 

[twinstead]

I for one would seriously like 9/11-investigator to explain if he thinks Jowenko is wrong about WTC1 and 2 and right about WTC7, or the other way around.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Of course that same expert stated that WTC 1 & 2 were not controlled demolitions.

Does your theory account for why 7 would be CD and 1 and 2 would not?

WTC 1&2 were obviously not supposed to look like CD. And that's what Jowenko observed, in contrast to WTC7, which in his eyes was a CD (which it was in reality). The way WTC1&2 would come down was supposed to look like that the planes had caused the collapse.

 

[twinstead]

Wrong: most conversations were one-way conversations where the caller was leading/dictating the conversation. There was no time for smalltalk or discuss little Joey's flu... the storyline was: 'Hi, here's Mark, I am in the plane, we're hijacked, please call the FBI, I love you. I have got to go. Bye. Click'.

This is an absolute falsehood. There were things said in those phone calls that NOBODY could have guessed or planned for.

 

[9/11-investigator]

In the story linked from post #1102, KSM is indeed said to have withdrawn his offer to plead guilty. This isn't quite the same as withdrawing (or rather repudiating) a confession to his actions, but rather the withdrawal of the offer to accept criminal responsibility for those actions and move directly to sentencing.

Ah yes, this barbaric, medieval idea of plea-bargaining. Together with torture methods like water boarding, advocated by people like Dershovitz, another prominent member of the ruling class in the US.

Judge to KSM, who still has a wet face from semi-drowning: "Listen KSM, we're nice people and we want to make a deal. We are going to kill you. However, if you confess we can offer you life imprisonment. Please sign here".

That's the sort of fine distinction that conspiracy theorists like to ignore in favour of a misinterpretation that supports their fantasies. In fact it appears that the plea was withdrawn when the competence of two co-defendents to stand trial was questioned. I'm not quite sure why this would be an issue, unless KSM and the other two are trying for group martyrdom and don't like the idea that their co-defendants may not die with them.

Dave

Speculation.

 

[Sparky]

Speculation.

This applies to everything you have posted so far.

 

[elbe]

They needed to recreate Pearl Harbor (more than 2500 people killed) to obtain a similar mobilizing effect on the American society. The planes alone would create enough victims.

That's just silly. The number of people killed is largely irrelevant for a response. It was the scope of the attack that motivated the response. If it was another rented van full of consumer level explosives it probably would not have gotten the same response as a planned attack that circumvented our air "security". The plan you hypothesis is far, far too complicated to be green lighted by an organization with any common sense.

And on top of that they needed to get rid of these asbestos riddled buildings on the cost of insurances companies from mainly German speaking territories like Germany and Switzerland.

I don't see why the buildings had to be torn down at all. The buildings were making a good deal of money. For that matter, the damage caused by the airplanes crashing into them and they not falling may have likely lead to them being torn down anyways.

And what does "from mainly German speaking territories" have to do with anything?

 

[twinstead]

It appears that speculation is only valid for 9/11-investigator if it is HIS speculation.

 

[dtugg]

It appears that speculation is only valid for 9/11-investigator if it is HIS speculation.

And of course his speculation is libelous, racist speculation. But it's the joooooos, so who cares? Let's accuse Larry Silverstein of murdering 3,000 people and destroying billions of dollars of property (and losing billions in the process), on no evidence whatsoever. It's not like he is a real person, he is just an evil, conniving jooooo. These joooos need to be stopped, who cares if there is no evidence?

 

[9/11-investigator]

I for one would seriously like 9/11-investigator to explain if he thinks Jowenko is wrong about WTC1 and 2 and right about WTC7, or the other way around.

Video.

0:25 - the bottom goes first
0:32 - the blew away columns and the rest caved in afterwards (with free fall speed as even NIST after 7 years now admits)
0:37 - WTC7 is different from the twin towers
0:43 - WTC7 is CD
8:39 - Jowenko denies that it is possible that these buildings collapsed because some columns were damaged


He is right about both:
- WTC7 is CD
- WTC 1&2 fell differently from WTC7

He does not say that WTC1&2 was CD or not.

 

[Dr Adequate]

That the good Dr. Papcun 'cannot imagine' is his problem. The ICT can easily explain how the 9/11 perps got their samples:

Trojan Horse.

Together, Verint and Amdocs form part of the backbone of the government's domestic intelligence surveillance technology. Both companies are based in Israel – having arisen to prominence from that country's cornering of the information technology market – and are heavily funded by the Israeli government, with connections to the Israeli military and Israeli intelligence (both companies have a long history of board memberships dominated by current and former Israeli military and intelligence officers). Verint is considered the world leader in "electronic interception" and hence an ideal private sector candidate for wiretap outsourcing.

Once the Mossad gets hold of the passenger lists they can pass it on to their buddies at Verint and in no time they can get hold on sound samples necessary for voice morphing.

We have shown that some of the passengers who made phone calls had been planning to take different flights, were last-minute check-ins, etc, do try to keep up.

Wrong: most conversations were one-way conversations where the caller was leading/dictating the conversation. There was no time for smalltalk or discuss little Joey's flu... the storyline was: 'Hi, here's Mark, I am in the plane, we're hijacked, please call the FBI, I love you. I have got to go. Bye. Click'.

And if all the conversations were like that ... then it still wouldn't be feasible 'cos they wouldn't have the voice samples.

---

Oh, another thing. Where were the calls placed from? Only the FBI traced them to the airphones in question. Are you going to add everyone who worked on that part of the investigation into the Great Big Conspiracy, or are you going to come up with some daft nonexistent technical gizmo that doesn't actually fill the gap in your narrative?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

And on top of that they needed to get rid of these asbestos riddled buildings

the buildings were not "asbestos riddled" in fact they stopped using asbestos during constructions, and IIRC the south tower had no asbestos and the north tower only had like the lower 30 floors (minus of course any that had been removed over the years)

 

[9/11-investigator]

Here is a bright guy from Canada who recently called Danny Jowenko to get confirmation that he still stood by his previous judgment. He does. He repeates his statement that it is impossible for WTC7 to collapse on the basis of fire.

 

[9/11-investigator]

This applies to everything you have posted so far.

Informed speculation.

 

[9/11-investigator]

That's just silly. The number of people killed is largely irrelevant for a response. It was the scope of the attack that motivated the response. If it was another rented van full of consumer level explosives it probably would not have gotten the same response as a planned attack that circumvented our air "security". The plan you hypothesis is far, far too complicated to be green lighted by an organization with any common sense.

This is what prof Dewdney had to say about complexity:

What is "complicated"?
Some readers have complained that the alternate scenario spelled out in this document is "too complicated." Complication, however, is a purely relative matter. What may seem "too complicated" to me or to you may turn out to be quite simple when the goal of an operation is taken into account. Consider, for example, the relatively minor goal of an operation described by former Mossad officer Victor Ostrovsky while still working for Mossad and assigned to an European post. (Ostrovsky & Hoy, 1990)

It was learned from internal sources that the Syrian Air Attaché was going to Europe to buy furniture for new administrative quarters that had been constructed for the Syrian Air Force in Damascus. Mossad planned to take advantage of this information by planting listening devices in the furniture at some point between purchase and delivery. The perceived potential payoff in new information made the following "complicated" operation worthwhile.

With three weeks before the purchase was to be made, operatives had to move fast. They set up a dummy furniture brokerage company, printed expensive brochures, trained an officer (katsa) in sales techniques and sales lingo, brought in cooperators (sayanim) to stage a scene, followed the movements of both the Air Attaché and his Aide during the few days they were in Brussels, waited for the Attaché to leave for Paris, followed the Aide to an expensive furniture store, brought in a katsa pretending to be a furniture broker, brought in a sayan posing as a satisfied customer, had the sayan thank the katsa profusely within earshot of the Aide for a wonderful deal, had the sayan leave, and had the katsa engage the Aide in conversation, showing him a brochure of expensive furniture.

The Aide was so impressed by the marvelous deal, as spelled out by the katsa, that he agreed at once and sat down with the katsa to draw up a shopping list of tables, chairs, and what have you. The deal became irresistible when the Aide realized that he could pocket the difference between list price and the actual amount being charged by the "salesman." Mossad then purchased the items, shipping two of the tables to Israel by private jet, where Mossad experts spent days installing complicated microphones and radio gear, sending the tables back to Brussels, then shipping the entire purchase to Syria.

The overall operation was a good deal more complicated than this. It may well be asked, "Why so complicated?" especially for such a minor payback. Given the value of the goal to Mossad, however, and the mere fact that the plan was feasible, Mossad proceeded with the operation. Under the circumstances, it may well have been the simplest method. According to Ostrovsky, such operations are routine. Modern intelligence organizations like Mossad not only gather intelligence, they create "facts," frame people, carry out assassinations, organize political events, and even provide training for militants in other countries.

How much more complication would be allowable for a really important operation like hijacking four aircraft and blaming it on Arab terrorists? Considering the payoff, the methods outlined here are not only relatively simple, but not atypical of methods in the Mossad playbook.

I don't see why the buildings had to be torn down at all. The buildings were making a good deal of money. For that matter, the damage caused by the airplanes crashing into them and they not falling may have likely lead to them being torn down anyways.

This is what architect Richard Gage has to say about the twin towers:

39:20 - the WTC twin towers were 'worthless aging dinosaurs'.
41:00 - cost to tear the WTC down somewhere between 5-15 billion; WTC were 'condemned structures'; financial gain Silverstein: paid 3.2 billion, got 4.6, on his way to 7 billion.

And what does "from mainly German speaking territories" have to do with anything?

Jews do not like Germans very much. Why not let them bleed for 9/11. Call it Reparations 2.0.

 

[9/11-investigator]

We have shown that some of the passengers who made phone calls had been planning to take different flights, were last-minute check-ins, etc, do try to keep up.

We did indeed discuss that, I wasted my valuable time on what turned out to be false info from some of the regulars. Please try to keep up yourself.

And if all the conversations were like that ... then it still wouldn't be feasible 'cos they wouldn't have the voice samples.

I fail to understand what the link is between the content of a conversation and the availability of a sample.

---

Oh, another thing. Where were the calls placed from? Only the FBI traced them to the airphones in question. Are you going to add everyone who worked on that part of the investigation into the Great Big Conspiracy, or are you going to come up with some daft nonexistent technical gizmo that doesn't actually fill the gap in your narrative?

Mention one nonexistent gizmo in my theory?

But you have a point regarding the airphones. I am sure that the Israeli intelligence people within Verint were able to fake a few records in their database.

 

[Baylor]

Here is the world's leading authority on controlled demolition saying a CD was impossible. He was also at GZ after 9/11.

 

[elbe]

This is what prof Dewdney had to say about complexity:
<snipped for length>

To be honest, that seems an awful lot simpler than using technology that doesn't exist, or would be easily noticed. I reiterate, the hypothesis that you have put forward is needlessly complex. It started simple enough, but every time evidence suggests that a piece does not work as you foresaw it you make it more complicated to compensate; to the point where, amongst other things, the Mossad is forced to have a remarkably indepth record of every American's phone calls on the off chance they need to fake a call from them.

This is what architect Richard Gage has to say about the twin towers:

39:20 - the WTC twin towers were 'worthless aging dinosaurs'.
41:00 - cost to tear the WTC down somewhere between 5-15 billion; WTC were 'condemned structures'; financial gain Silverstein: paid 3.2 billion, got 4.6, on his way to 7 billion.

I'm in no position to watch that right now, but what evidence does he have that it was worthless? The buildings were still being used, both for business and tourism. Had they been considering tearing them down prior to this ingenious plot to have the US get involved more involved in middle eastern affairs, the result of which, I believe, if even worse for Israel than before the Iraq war? And, if I recall correctly, Silverstein under insured it.

Jews do not like Germans very much. Why not let them bleed for 9/11. Call it Reparations 2.0.

Le sigh.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Ah yes, this barbaric, medieval idea of plea-bargaining. Together with torture methods like water boarding, advocated by people like Dershovitz, another prominent member of the ruling class in the US.

Judge to KSM, who still has a wet face from semi-drowning: "Listen KSM, we're nice people and we want to make a deal. We are going to kill you. However, if you confess we can offer you life imprisonment. Please sign here".

In other words, you're changing the subject to avoid admitting that you were wrong. Dodge noted.

Speculation.

Agreed.

Informed speculation.

Evidence that your speculation is any more informed than anybody else's?

This is what prof Dewdney had to say about complexity:

Invalid appeal to authority. Dewdney is not an expert on the complexity of military operations.

This is what architect Richard Gage has to say about the twin towers:

39:20 - the WTC twin towers were 'worthless aging dinosaurs'.
41:00 - cost to tear the WTC down somewhere between 5-15 billion; WTC were 'condemned structures'; financial gain Silverstein: paid 3.2 billion, got 4.6, on his way to 7 billion.

Richard Gage is making up fantasy numbers. He's ignoring the fact that Silverstein has continued to pay rent on the site, has had to pay for the construction of the replacement buildings, and has pulled a figure for asbestos abatement out of I know not where.

We did indeed discuss that, I wasted my valuable time on what turned out to be false info from some of the regulars. Please try to keep up yourself.

Translation: I don't have an answer for this, so I'm going to pretend I've refuted it and hope you don't notice.

I am sure that the Israeli intelligence people within Verint were able to fake a few records in their database.

Uninformed speculation.

Dave