PDA Recommendations?

[Wowbagger]

Ever since grade school, I've had a habit of keeping all of my phone numbers and calendar alarms on my wrist watch (with Casio Databank watches, that is: http://www.casio.com/products/Timepiece/Databank/ ).

Over the past few years, my contact and calendaring needs have overgrown the watch's capabilities. And, I started using my Tablet PC as an oversized PDA. Of course, the biggest problem with the Tablet PC is that it is big: Only slightly smaller than your average laptop.

I am still keeping the Tablet for my full-powered portable computing needs. But, I am now considering acquiring a PDA to supplement it, for better travel capabilities.

* I do NOT need it to function as a cell phone. I am perfectly happy with my current model and service, as old as it might be.

* The functionality I need is only the basic, standard stuff: Contact info, calendar, random notes, etc. Nothing more elaborate than that.

* WIFI Internet and music playing capabilities are optional, but might be nice to have.

* Actually, now that I think about it, a Calculator feature would be handy, too.

* It must be able to sync with a PC, preferably straight into Outlook.

I know they have these "palmtop" PCs, that are actually hand-sized Tablet PCs. But, I would rather keep my full-size one. As a software developer, I like having a large keyboard, when I am programming.

I also know that there was supposed to be new models of Tablet PCs with detachable PDA-like "Sideshow" parts (without an L, as in circus side-show, not presentation slideshow). But, I have yet to see them sold. I have only witnessed their supposed existence at tradeshows.

The iPod Touch is tempting, but very "cliquey", and overpriced.

So, what would you all recommend?

 

[six7s]

So, what would you all recommend?

I'd recommend that, instead of focusing on one particular platform, you step back for a moment, think long term, and recognise that - with your current approach - you have the option to implement (easily!) a future-proof, application-independent, cross-platform solution: CSV

CSV application support^wp

The comma-separated values file format is a very simple data file format that is supported by almost all spreadsheet software such as Excel (although Excel uses the list separator of the current locale settings, which is a semicolon instead of a comma for many locales), Apple Numbers, OpenOffice.org Calc and Gnumeric as well as many online spreadsheet services such as EditGrid and Google Docs & Spreadsheets. Many database management systems support the reading and writing of CSV files.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Well, despite not needing it as a cell phone, the unfortunate fact is that most manufacturers use phones as their PDA platforms. So the choices become really restricted after that point.

The only non-phone PDA's I'm aware of off the top of my head that fill the other criteria are the Palm "Handhelds" and HP's non-phone iPaqs. Either should sync with OUtlook just fine. The drawbacks are that the costs are pretty much on par with iPod Touches.

If you really just need basic calendaring and synching, I'd think about grabbing up an older, maybe even used Palm or Winmobile/PocketPC device. Like off of eBay, or some other site. Many of those will have wi-fi capabilities, they'll be cheaper, and while I can't think of a single one that'll play mp3s easily, they meet the other criteria.

 

[CFLarsen]

I've had Palms for about 10 years now, and I still keep my old Palm T3. Simply because it works, and I haven't found a viable lasting platform with new cell phones that will make it a good reason to switch.

With Palm, I get not just the basic functions: Calendar, contact lists, notepad, task- and to-do lists. I also get a media player (MP3 and various movie formats), and, most important, simple software applications: Mail, calculators, games, document readers (txt, pdf, word), spreadsheet (csv, excel), photos, voice memo, world clocks. Heck, I even have a planetarium. And with an SD-card reader, I don't really have to worry about storage space.

Palms are sturdy, big screens, yet slim. They are very easy to use: The interface is very intuitive, and you can use both the built-in software keyboard, use an external, or learn grafitti, which is rather easy to do. There are tons of extra cables and things available, to fit my every need.

I've just seen a T3 on ebay for 17 bucks.

 

[Earthborn]

Wowbagger, my old Jornada 540 does everything you want (and much much more), and I am happy with it enough that I recently bought a pack of new styluses when the old one broke (20 euro for three little plastic sticks! )

So, yeah... Get any old Palm or Pocket PC you can find and you'll be happy. Add a memory card of a Gig or so and you can take your whole business with you.

 

[paximperium]

I've owned Palms for years and currently have a Treo 700w for the last 4 years.

I say just get the iPhone. With its huge aps store, there is a huge and growing list of applications. It'll fill all your needs...unless you hate AT&T.

Another choice would be the HTC G1 on T-Mobile with the Google Android platform.

I would not recommend the Palm or the current Microsoft CE platform. Unfortunately, PURE PDAs are not going to last much longer since they are all moving towards smartphones.

 

[malbui]

I have a Blackberry and an iPhone for work but I still really like my ancient Palm T2 as a simple PDA - has always done everything I needed and the screen is excellent. As CFL and Earthborn have said, stick in a massive SD card and you've got no storage issues, and you can find ones of that generation for next to nothing.

 

[CFLarsen]

As always, it is a question of weighing price against need.

A lot of the drive to get the new smart phones has to do with coolness: The desire to be with the in-crowd, to show that you are with the program. I'm hot because my phone is hot.

Unfortunately, there is a nasty downside to being on the cutting edge: It leaves a lot of blood.

You can easily spend a ridiculous amount of money on the latest gadgets which, for most parts, are rendered useless in a shorter time than it took you to save up for them.

If it is a question of wanting technology that both works and lasts, always go with the versions that are 2-3 generations "behind".

Let other people pay to be cool just to be cool. Be cool because you can do what you need to do.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I’ve just acquired my son’s Playstation Portable (PSP 2000) and am in the process of setting it up as a PDA as sorts. It’s a little chunky and far from an out-of-the-box solution as it requires the installation of a hacked ROM that allows various homebrew applications to run. It can be fiddly getting stuff to work due to ROM version incompatibilities but I am building a collection of apps that add to the system’s very good inbuilt video, music and Internet capabilities. My favourite app is a Bookr – a pdf capable document reader that works well as long as the embedded image sizes are not very large. As a programmer, you may enjoy the customizability of such a system – source code for homebrew community apps seems to be freely available.

 

[CFLarsen]

Perhaps the best thing about my Palm is that it starts immediately, exactly where I turned it off. And I can just turn it off whenever I want.

No boot time, no need to start all over again from a menu.

Good thinking.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Perhaps the best thing about my Palm is that it starts immediately, exactly where I turned it off. And I can just turn it off whenever I want.

No boot time, no need to start all over again from a menu.

Good thinking.

It's very handy to be able to do that and the Palm looks to have a great range of applications - would love one. The PSP has a sleep mode also and boot is very quick anyway.

 

[Wowbagger]

Well, despite not needing it as a cell phone, the unfortunate fact is that most manufacturers use phones as their PDA platforms.

So I noticed.

If you really just need basic calendaring and synching, I'd think about grabbing up an older, maybe even used Palm or Winmobile/PocketPC device. Like off of eBay, or some other site. Many of those will have wi-fi capabilities, they'll be cheaper, and while I can't think of a single one that'll play mp3s easily, they meet the other criteria.

A model that is one year old, or so, might be a viable option, especially if it is "Factory Refurbished", and not merely "used".

My first Tablet PC was a 1-year-old factory refurbished model, in fact. And, that deal worked out well.

Unfortunately, PURE PDAs are not going to last much longer since they are all moving towards smartphones.

If the age of pure PDAs is truly at an end, I wonder: Would it be possible to buy a PDA that has cell-phone capabilities, but NOT pay for the cell-phone contract? In other words, you would be using the pure-PDA parts, and just not be allowed to use the cell-phone part.

I doubt it, myself, but it I figured I would ask, just in case.

I've owned Palms for years and currently have a Treo 700w for the last 4 years.

And you are happy with it, I gather?

I say just get the iPhone. With its huge aps store, there is a huge and growing list of applications. It'll fill all your needs...unless you hate AT&T.

Well, I do not like the idea of being forced to use AT&T, and I would not be inclined to mod my phone to use other services.

If I went the Apple route, I would more-likely get the iPod Touch. But, I want to see what else might be out there, before I step into the Apple Cult.

Another choice would be the HTC G1 on T-Mobile with the Google Android platform.

I will take a look at it.

I would not recommend the Palm or the current Microsoft CE platform.

Any particular reasons?

I remember the first and second generation Windows CE stuff was utterly crap-tacular. But, I hear Microsoft has since vastly improved the platform.

Wowbagger, my old Jornada 540 does everything you want (and much much more), and I am happy with it enough that I recently bought a pack of new styluses when the old one broke (20 euro for three little plastic sticks! )

Maybe.

So, yeah... Get any old Palm or Pocket PC you can find and you'll be happy. Add a memory card of a Gig or so and you can take your whole business with you.

That is a good point: An SD card slot would definitely be a plus!

As always, it is a question of weighing price against need.

Thank you, Dr. Obvious Economist!

Let other people pay to be cool just to be cool. Be cool because you can do what you need to do.

That is my realm of thinking, in fact.

I've had Palms for about 10 years now, and I still keep my old Palm T3. Simply because it works, and I haven't found a viable lasting platform with new cell phones that will make it a good reason to switch.

If it has lasted that long, then good for you!

I've just seen a T3 on ebay for 17 bucks.

Fascinating. Now, it is past $20.00, but still a good deal. I wonder how much a new one would be, if anyone has any.

Perhaps the best thing about my Palm is that it starts immediately, exactly where I turned it off. And I can just turn it off whenever I want.

I suspect most PDAs are like that, now.

Right?

I’ve just acquired my son’s Playstation Portable (PSP 2000) and am in the process of setting it up as a PDA as sorts. It’s a little chunky and far from an out-of-the-box solution as it requires the installation of a hacked ROM that allows various homebrew applications to run.

I am not interested in modding something I am going to make important use of. (unless the hack was absolutely necessary)

CSV application support^wp

1. What doesn't support CSV files, these days?

2. What does that have to do with choosing PDAs, anyway?

3A: If you are referring to information syncing, CSV is often not the best choice for preserving any binary or meta-data that might have to be synced.

3B: If you are referring to spreadsheet building: I really do not need such a feature. Why would I want to use some "Pocket Excel" thing, when I have the real, full Excel 2007 on my Tablet, which will usually be somewhere relatively close by?

3C: If you are referring to something else, let me know.

4. Lately, I have been more of an XML person, myself.

 

[paximperium]

I actually despise my Treo. I use it because I bought the thing and was locked into a contract for 2 years and now find little need to get another phone. It is slow, prone to crashing and now has very limited applications available.

Most current cellphone/PDAs, require that you actually have the phone function on(the G1 and iPhone are the most obvious examples), even if you could use the PDA function only, many of the aps require internet access.

The Palm OS and Microsoft CE OS is ancient, I believe over 5 years old and the new Palm OS seems to be in limbo. While they have been updated to a degree, applications for them are seriously slowing down, most are moving the iPhone OS, Google Android and to a lesser extent, Blackberry's Symbian.

As for the iPod touch, I don't think it is a bad idea although many of the crossplatform touch and iPhone require and online function and GPS function as well. So it will not have as much variety.

My primary gripe with the Apple iPhone is how locked down it is. Locked into one carrier, locked into the iTunes store for programs and locked down, making it difficulty to customize. But that's an Apple product, a locked down, well design piece of hardware and software.

 

[CFLarsen]

The Palm TX is currently at $299, and the Tungsten E2 is at $199. Both can probably be found cheaper elsewhere.

I'm not a doctor. I used to play one, though.

 

[paximperium]

HTC G1 and 3G iPhone is for $199. (don't mind the 2 year phone fees).

The iPhone will soon allegedly be sold at Walmart for $159

 

[six7s]

CSV application support

1. What doesn't support CSV files, these days?

Nothing of relevance to data storage/migration springs to mind

2. What does that have to do with choosing PDAs, anyway?

When I read the OP, I noted the title (PDA Recommendations?) and also the requirements:

* I do NOT need it to function as a cell phone. I am perfectly happy with my current model and service, as old as it might be.

* The functionality I need is only the basic, standard stuff: Contact info, calendar, random notes, etc. Nothing more elaborate than that.

* WIFI Internet and music playing capabilities are optional, but might be nice to have.

* Actually, now that I think about it, a Calculator feature would be handy, too.

* It must be able to sync with a PC, preferably straight into Outlook.
<snip/>
So, what would you all recommend?

It occurred to me that it might well be worth your while considering a simplification of what can be regarded as a mess (no offence intended!) cf intertwined yet discrete problems



Defining Complexity

Ritchey (2002), drawing on Ackoff (1974) and Pidd (1996), summarises a view that there are three types of complex situations in what he terms a socio-technical system; these are: messes, problems, and puzzles.

• A mess is "a complex issue that is not well formulated or defined".
• A problem is "a well formulated/ defined issue but with no single solution".
• A puzzle is "a well defined problem with a single solution that can be worked out".[12]

 

[Wowbagger]

I actually despise my Treo. I use it because I bought the thing and was locked into a contract for 2 years and now find little need to get another phone. It is slow, prone to crashing and now has very limited applications available.

Well I won't be locked into a contract, because I do not intend to get anything that would require one.

Most current cellphone/PDAs, require that you actually have the phone function on(the G1 and iPhone are the most obvious examples), even if you could use the PDA function only, many of the aps require internet access.

Some units might have Wi-Fi Internet access, without the need for a cell phone provider.

The Palm OS and Microsoft CE OS is ancient, I believe over 5 years old and the new Palm OS seems to be in limbo.

Windows CE is now called Windows Mobile, and the latest version is less than one year old.

Palm OS does seem to be rather stagnant. Does not look like there has been a new release of Palm OS, since 2004.

My primary gripe with the Apple iPhone is how locked down it is. Locked into one carrier, locked into the iTunes store for programs and locked down, making it difficulty to customize. But that's an Apple product, a locked down, well design piece of hardware and software.

That is a gripe worth considering. Though, the music and apps are not terribly important to me. I still have full-powered computers for all that.

It occurred to me that it might well be worth your while considering a simplification of what can be regarded as a mess (no offence intended!) cf intertwined yet discrete problems

Just for you, I shall write a less messy edition of my requirements:

* I do NOT need it to function as a cell phone. I am perfectly happy with my current cell phone model and service, (as old as it might be).

* The applications I need, for my PDA, are only the basic, standard stuff: Contact info, calendar, note keeping, calculator, etc. Nothing more elaborate than that.

* Applications that are optional would be: WIFI Internet and music playing capabilities. They might be nice to have.

* It must be able to sync with a PC, preferably straight into Outlook.

* An optional hardware component would be an SD card slot. (I added this, after Earthborn's comment)

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Unfortunately, it seems to me that the PDA-only market is dying. I have a Palm T|X, and I couldn't function without it. This is Palm's top-of-the-line PDA-only product, but it has been so since 2005. 2005! Palm hasn't come out with a new PDA for nearly four years!

It seems that the quality of Palm's products has declined significantly. Most prominently, the digitizer that is used on the T|X is crap, subject to alignment problems, and dead spots.

So, if you are thinking of going Palm, and getting the top-of-the-line model, plan on spending about $300 for the T|X, but plan on spending another $45 for a decent third-party digitizer and I hope you're really good at doing the sort of delicate work that is involved in installing it.

 

[Wavicle]

The iPod Touch is tempting, but very "cliquey", and overpriced.

So, what would you all recommend?

When I started writing iPhone apps, I bought an iPod Touch because the two are equivalent from a programming standpoint (the iPod Touch lacks a microphone, Camera, GPS and Phone service, but is otherwise identical).

Within 3 weeks of buying the Touch, I was at the AT&T store getting an iPhone. It is just that good. My wife now has the Touch 24/7 and my iPhone is pulling multiple duty as my PDA, MP3 player, video player, Cell Phone, GPS and Development target.

Oh, and the Mac Mini I had to get to develop the apps with is now the machine I use 90% of the time. This is all in the last 2 months.

Maybe stick with a Palm. The initial cost of the iPod Touch was the cheap part.

 

[Wudang]

I use my work Nokia 3109 phone for contacts and calendar. The Nokia PC suite synchs with Outlook and Notes. It has a nice long battery life. Buy one used and get it unlocked to use your current contract. Practically speaking, I want my contacts and my phone in one device so it's one less to carry or charge.
YMMV.