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Quebec Separation

Thanz

Fuzzy Thinker
Thanz
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Messages
3,895
In the ongoing thread about the Parliamentary shenanigans in the Canadian federal government, the issue of Quebec separation has come up once again. A frequent topic of political discourse in Canada, although it has been quiet as of late and may remain so after Charest got a majority government this week.

However, in the other thread I learned that Pardalis is actually a separatist and I thought that this might be an interesting place to discuss the issue.

In my perspective, Quebec separating would be quite detrimental economically. Further, the type of sovereignty-association that was being bandied about in the last referendum (with things like using the Canadian dollar) struck me as being less than an actual Quebec nation. In short, it seems less than fully rational.

So, why do some Quebecois want to separate? What are the reasons that have led to this point?
 
Charest got a majority, but the PQ bounced back to official opposition status.

Let's do this thread the Canadian way...politely.
 
drkitten said:
It does. It confirms me in my worst opinions of Quebecois separatists; they're being oh-so-oppressed by not being able to violate the fundamental rights of the anglophones.

A pity, because I was really hoping to see a well-reasoned argument in favor of Quebec separatism. But this isn't it.
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The only things about it are in French, that's the best I found in English.
 
Pardalis said:
That has mostly to do with the fact that the Québec Native people also include Labrador. Surely this will be a source of contention, and will have to be settled in some way.

http://www.apnql-afnql.com/en/accueil/index.php
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If I'm reading this correctly (my comprehension is not great), that clause is also claiming a significant chunk of Ontario - "le territoire de l’ancienne province du même nom" would include what was split off into Upper Canada, yes?

That cannot be taken seriously.
 
Pardalis said:
That has mostly to do with the fact that the Québec Native people also include Labrador. Surely this will be a source of contention, and will have to be settled in some way.

http://www.apnql-afnql.com/en/accueil/index.php
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The proposed constitution says that Canadien (French) territorial sovereignty was never surrendered to the British Crown. That is the same argument made by First Nations. Why, then would their territory be part of an independent Quebec?

ETA: I may be misreading that bit. Is it saying British sovereignty was never recognized, or that it will no longer be recognized?
 
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D'rok said:
Essential element and general principle number 1 is a complete non-starter. Would an independent Quebec seriously try to claim Labrador?
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I would have to agree. Further, on what principle would Quebec prevent First Nations peoples (who control much of Northern Quebec) from staying as part of Canada if they so choose?
 
D'rok said:
ETA: The clause about keeping the Canadian dollar is wishful thinking.
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It will be gradual, maybe the first decade or so, to make the transition easier.

Thanz said:
I would have to agree. Further, on what principle would Quebec prevent First Nations peoples (who control much of Northern Quebec) from staying as part of Canada if they so choose?
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As I said, this is a source of contention, surely we will respect the Native's rights for autonomy, but we won't deny ours either.
 
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Français, le Québec l’est de par son histoire et de par la volonté de son peuple. Le français est sa seule langue officielle. Aucune autre langue ne saurait y jouir d’un statut particulier ou officiel.
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The French minority seems much better protected in Canada than the English minority would be in an independent Quebec.
 
gtc said:
The French minority seems much better protected in Canada than the English minority would be in an independent Quebec.
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Cherry-picking are we?

The next paragraph:
Note : Des droits linguistiques sont reconnus aux anglophones en vertu de règlements ou de lois promulgués par le gouvernement du Québec. De tels droits pourront éventuellement être inscrits dans la Constitution, en réciprocité avec des droits similaires qui seraient reconnus aux Canadiens-Français dans la Constitution du Canada de même que dans la Constitution de chaque province canadienne.
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D'rok said:
ETA: I may be misreading that bit. Is it saying British sovereignty was never recognized, or that it will no longer be recognized?
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No more GG, or LG. "The Sovereign" is the name of the GG, if you can imagine that.
 
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Thanz said:
In my perspective, Quebec separating would be quite detrimental economically. Further, the type of sovereignty-association that was being bandied about in the last referendum (with things like using the Canadian dollar) struck me as being less than an actual Quebec nation. In short, it seems less than fully rational.
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As an ex-separatist, I fully agree with this opinion.

But unfortunately, from the perspective of separatists, it misses the point, since the goal of sovereignty isn't to better Quebec economically but to help protect the national identity (in the cultural/ethnic sense) by creating a political entity around it. In other words, while all quebecers recognize their own cultural/ethnic existence, the separatists want to "enforce" this existence within a country, while the others are ok with the fact of being one "founding" ethnic group in a bigger country.

In this perspective, the economic drawbacks of secession are either said to be exaggerated, or simply a necessary evil to achieve what is believed to be the greater good. There are also some arguments on how Quebec would benefit from separation - generally, it's because the province wouldn't need to continue financing some government programs that don't concern us.
 
Pardalis said:
This should give you a good idea. And if you read French, this is one possible way a sovereing Québec would look like: http://www.mef.qc.ca/projet_de_constitution.htm
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I just want to point out that this link is marked as a "free opinion"; this is NOT the official program of the PQ, and shouldn't necessarily be considered as a "mainstream" opinion.

Claiming Labrador and part of Ontario, that's the first time I heard about such a concept.
 
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