Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[boloboffin]

Huh. That's a fascinating post there, truethat. I'd like more info on seismic activity affecting TLE. It seems to this layperson that a brain developing the ability to sense an area of frequent seismic activity would enhance survival.

After all, woo must have some survival value, our brains generate so much of it.

 

[truethat]

There's been some talk about it for a while now. Even Richard Dawkins was willing to give it a whirl. It might explain why some people KNOW they experience God and for others there's nothing there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_-txbHNyOY

 

[DOC]

That is silly read Luke again.

4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

So you're saying it did not mean what it said when it says "Being forty days tempted of the devil.

It is talking about the real world, Jordan, physically eating nothing not some spirital vacumn. It does not say he was taken from the top of the mountain to the temple in a moment of time

I thought he was supposed to be in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights. If you walk from a high mountain top to a temple inside Jerusalem that would probably take about 3 or 4 days and at least another day or two to walk back into the wilderness. So according to your belief that 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness was interrupted by at least a day or two while in the busy city of Jerusalem. If it was all happening in the spirit the 40 days and 40 nights would not be interrupted.

 

[DOC]

and science has a word for visionary state as well:
Hallucination^WP

So your implying that Jesus, the man who Thomas Jefferson said gave us the greatest system of morality he has ever seen and who spent a lot of time cutting out his words from the bible and pasting them all in a book about Jesus' teachings, received all this great wisdom while hullucinating.

 

[joobz]

So you're saying it did not mean what it said when it says "Being forty days tempted of the devil.



I thought he was supposed to be in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights. If you walk from a high mountain top to a temple inside Jerusalem that would probably take about 3 or 4 days and at least another day or two to walk back into the wilderness. So according to your belief that 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness was interrupted by at least a day or two while in the busy city of Jerusalem. If it was all happening in the spirit the 40 days and 40 nights would not be interrupted.

So, your point is that Jesus hallucinated the whole thing and he never really did go to the top of a mountain to see the whole world.

Well, that's a logical explanation. It agrees with reality on several counts.
1.) It is impossible to see the whole world from a mountain top
2.) there is no such thing as spirit quests but rather hallucinations.

 

[truethat]

Uh what wisdom? What amazing wisdom are we talking about here? Give me a few lines that you think are earth shatteringly messiah high, wise. Do you know how many people say wise things all the time while they are hallucinating? All the time?

 

[joobz]

So your implying that Jesus, the man who Thomas Jefferson said gave us the greatest system of morality he has ever seen and who spent a lot of time cutting out his words from the bible and pasting them all in a book about Jesus' teachings, received all this great wisdom while hullucinating.

Yes. And it seems he agreed with me, since Jefferson spent his time cutting out the parts inspried by magic and hallucination.

I'd go so far as to say that you agree with me as well, as you use his hallucinations to explain being visited by the devil for 40 days.

 

[zooterkin]

So your implying that Jesus, the man who Thomas Jefferson said gave us the greatest system of morality he has ever seen and who spent a lot of time cutting out his words from the bible and pasting them all in a book about Jesus' teachings, received all this great wisdom while hullucinating.

Do you think the story about the devil taking Jesus to the top of the mountain is in the Jefferson bible?

Do you not understand that it's quite possible to admire the teachings of the man Jesus without believing the supernatural additions?

 

[boloboffin]

So you're saying it did not mean what it said when it says "Being forty days tempted of the devil.



I thought he was supposed to be in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights. If you walk from a high mountain top to a temple inside Jerusalem that would probably take about 3 or 4 days and at least another day or two to walk back into the wilderness. So according to your belief that 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness was interrupted by at least a day or two while in the busy city of Jerusalem. If it was all happening in the spirit the 40 days and 40 nights would not be interrupted.

And if these stories are all fairy tales, then chronology wouldn't matter, either.

So your implying that Jesus, the man who Thomas Jefferson said gave us the greatest system of morality he has ever seen and who spent a lot of time cutting out his words from the bible and pasting them all in a book about Jesus' teachings, received all this great wisdom while hullucinating.

There's also the distinct possibility that this never happened to Jesus in the first place, that this is a fairy tale... excuse me, spiritual way of explaining how Jesus got his wisdom.

After all, you couldn't say that Jesus listened to Hillel and Shammai and just boiled it down, could you?

 

[DOC]

Uh what wisdom? What amazing wisdom are we talking about here? Give me a few lines that you think are earth shatteringly messiah high, wise. Do you know how many people say wise things all the time while they are hallucinating? All the time?

You can buy a copy for under $4.

http://www.keenzo.com/showproduct.asp?M=DOVER-PUBLICATIONS&ID=2068062&ref=GB

Actually Jefferson never called it the Jefferson Bible. He called it the life and morals of Jesus of Nazareth.

And do you think Jesus took LSD back in Bible times?

 

[DOC]

And if these stories are all fairy tales, then chronology wouldn't matter, either.

The non-Christian historian Josephus was not talking fairy tales when he reported on Jesus and John the Baptist.

 

[zooterkin]

The non-Christian historian Josephus was not talking fairy tales when he reported on Jesus and John the Baptist.

Well, he certainly wasn't reporting first-hand information, so you have no grounds for that statement.

Are you going to produce any of the evidence in support of the OP?


And didn't we already address the supposed reference to Jesus earlier in this thread?

ETA: Yes, IchneumonWasp did.

 

[boloboffin]

The non-Christian historian Josephus was not talking fairy tales when he reported on Jesus and John the Baptist.

Both of Josephus' references to Jesus have yet to be shown to be nothing more than a Christian interpolation. Even if the main one was only "improved" by his Christian scribes, Josephus says nothing, nothing, nothing at all about the incident in question, Christ's temptation in the desert.

Please back away from the straw man.

 

[DOC]

Do you not understand that it's quite possible to admire the teachings of the man Jesus without believing the supernatural additions?

Yes, this is what some have called "Cafeteria Christianity" -- I'll take a little of this, and a little of that, and discard what I don't like.

 

[paximperium]

Yes, this is what some have called "Cafeteria Christianity" -- I'll take a little of this, and a little of that, and discard what I don't like.

Indeed. Therefore you're caught in a bind aren't ya?
Using your sad logic, if even one minuscule part of the Bible is false, it all comes tumbling down therefore you'll defend absurdities in the Bible to the bitter end.

 

[joobz]

And do you think Jesus took LSD back in Bible times?

Of course not. LSD wasn't invented yet.
He could have taken other drugs available...
But that's a moot point. you don't need to take drugs to hallucinate.

 

[DOC]

Both of Josephus' references to Jesus have yet to be shown to be nothing more than a Christian interpolation. Even if the main one was only "improved" by his Christian scribes, Josephus says nothing, nothing, nothing at all about the incident in question, Christ's temptation in the desert.

Only one of two of Josephus' references to Jesus has been argued a interpolation. The other is considered authentic.

 

[paximperium]

Only one of two of Josephus' references to Jesus has been argued a interpolation. The other is considered authentic.

You mean the part that mentioned Christians and their already formed beliefs? That part?

 

[paximperium]

Of course not. LSD wasn't invented yet.
He could have taken other drugs available...
But that's a moot point. you don't need to take drugs to hallucinate.

Well, Jesus(if such a person even existed) could be just completely and utterly insane and was just hallucinating, hearing voices and as delusional as that homeless fella down the street.

 

[joobz]

You mean the part that mentioned Christians and their already formed beliefs? That part?

Win!