AA77 FDR Data, Explained

[Jonnyclueless]

The light poles were knocked down by flight 77 just before it hit the Pentagon. Yes, it does explain perfectly well. It also matched the plane being found in the pentagon and the passengers form flight 77 being there, and the black boxes being there, and the impact hole which matches flight 77, the plane that was tracked on RADAR, who's passengers made calls from the plane about the hijackers, who confessed and who's DNA was matched.

As opposed to the weakest form of evidence eyewitness testimony. And testimony on placement of a plane which is really hard to tell, let alone adding to peoples memory being unreliable for such things.

And again I ask that if you guys feel you have such compelling evidence (which so far no experts agree with you) then why aren't you filing a lawsuit against the government?

 

[Turbofan]

As opposed to the weakest form of evidence eyewitness testimony.

And again I ask that if you guys feel you have such compelling evidence (which so far no experts agree with you) then why aren't you filing a lawsuit against the government?

Cell phone calls

FDR data
Photos
Eye witness testimony
Lack of debris

(on, and on, and on in circles we go!)

Hey, could you spare a few million to help us get some legal representation
for this small claims court trial?

 

[funk de fino]

Let's see 90%? 100%? Does that make you happy?

Does that also explain the light poles getting knocked down? Are you guys
going to keep omitting all the pieces of the pie, or some of them to allow
your official story to work?
J.C., you need to learn the difference between corruption and erasure.
Sit tight because there is more to 'that' discussion apparently.

The irony in that statement is hilariously ironic. What is sad is that you cannot see it.

The CIT NOC witness place the plane only just above the annex and most say it hit the pentagon.

This refutes your too high according to the FDR nonsense.

The FDR refutes the NOC claims with the heading data.

Who is correct PFT or CIT? Or neither?

 

[funk de fino]

Cell phone calls

he never said cellphone

FDR data

your incorrect interpretation is your problem not ours

Photos

Photos of what?

Eye witness testimony

Hundreds saying it hit the pentagon, a few saying it went NOC, and zero saying there was a flyover

Lack of debris

Stop lying

(on, and on, and on in circles we go!)

With your lies

Hey, could you spare a few million to help us get some legal representation for this small claims court trial?

If your claims are true some legal representation would probably come free from a company only to happy to bring down senor bush and his cronies and get the biggest scoop of the century. CIT are cowards who wont even interview the hundreds of first responders present and have no intention of ever doing it.

PFT have no FDR experts and you have no aircraft experience. You are out of your league and are in cahoots with balsamo who is a mental case.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Multiple NoC witnesses have come forward. Some people would rather
twist their stories and turn a blind eye than consider the testimony.

And yet, when multiple Pentagon airliner impact witnesses come forward - and far more of them than your NoC witnesses - you would rather twist their stories and turn a blind eye. This is more like the pot calling the mirror black.

Remember one thing: Truthers don't make up evidence.

The Twin Towers fell at freefall speed. Marvin Bush was head of security at the WTC on 9/11. Payne Stewart's plane was intercepted 20 minutes after it went off course. There was no sign of any airliner debris at the Pentagon. Both of the Twin Towers were full of asbestos and its abatement cost exceeded their value. Voice-morphing technology exists which could have simulated the passenger cellphone and airfone calls. Thermite is standard equipment for severing columns in the building demolition industry. Larry Silverstein said "Then we made the decision to pull...".

Or don't the people who made up those pieces of evidence qualify as truthers?

Dave

 

[double_o]

FDR data

Match the radar data and end when the plane is lined for impact.

Photos

What about them?

Eye witness testimony

All say the plane crashed into the pentagon.

Lack of debris

There were a lot of debris.

ETA: funk de fino already replied.

 

[bje]

Still no evidence of a Pentagon impact BJE?

Evasion noted. I am asking for the evidence of your claim that AA 77 flew over the Pentagon, remember? Where is your evidence of a flyover, Turbofan?

You, Craig Ranke, and Rob Balsamo all claim that AA 77 flew toward the Pentagon, and then climbed over the Pentagon at the pre-planned location where a "bomb" was set off inside the Pentagon. (Why anyone would set off a bomb to explode in a direction to cause interior damage in a direction not flown by your "flyover" jet, is just another question you can't answer.)

Note Balsamo's claim in his animation of the approach and supposed flyover in the top picture below:

Yes, that shows the supposed view from AA 77's cockpit as AA 77 began to climb over the Pentagon and turn slightly to the right as Balsamo claims to have happened.

The bottom two pictures represent what both Craig Ranke and Rob Balsamo claim would be seen from eyewitnesses and recorded on the Pentagon security camera.

But there is no plane on the video and there are no eyewitnesses to any such flyover. Why not? You, Ranke, and Balsamo refuse to answer and provide us any evidence of a flyover.

Instead, you want us to believe there would be no eyewitnesses and no media reports. With plenty of examples of what Boeing 757's look like and sound like flying fast and low,



you want us to think no one would notice and no one would get on the Internet, or phone any media, and say they witnessed a jey flying low and fast over the Pentagon and away from it and why wasn't the media reporting it.

Enough of you evasions, Turbofan. You need to present evidence of a flyover. When will you do so?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Cell phone calls

FDR data
Photos
Eye witness testimony
Lack of debris

(on, and on, and on in circles we go!)

Hey, could you spare a few million to help us get some legal representation
for this small claims court trial?

Well aside from the fact that not a single one of those issues works in your favor, why do you think it would cost millions to file a lawsuit? Many people have filed lawsuits and they aren't rich. How did you come to the few millions figure? Did ou even look into it? Did CIT? Did PFT? So you sit on what you seem to feel is the biggest crime in the history of man and you choose to do nothing but talk on chat forums about it? Heck, you won't even spend some money on getting a real FDR expert, let alone starting a lawsuit.

So is this the plan? Just sit on internet forums and do nothing? Well, nothing except make some money form DVDs and swag? Heck the evidence is so damning that you should be able to represent yourselves no?

 

[jaydeehess]

Truthers dont make thng up?
Just a few, and sticking only with thePentgon ;
- the fly over contention
- Sean Boger must have ducked and is lying,
- Robert Turcois is a flyover witness
- Robert Turcois is a NoC witness (he originaly points south over the station roof)
,- downed lamp posts, aircraft parts, and DNA evidence must b planted

,,,, all made up,,,,,,,,,,

Ignoring evidence?
Just few, and sticking with the Pentagon;
- not a single solitary fly over witness
- a missile that can make a round hole in the second floor wall and then take out 90-100 feet of the ground floor wall without depositing the concrete on the front lawn (a combination of make-believe and ignoring evidence)

 

[vaquero]

NTSB released Flight77 flight data in response to an FOIA request by Pilots for 911 truth. This 'official' flight data shows Flight77 at an altitude of 273 feet within one half to about a second of 'impact' at the Pentagon on 911.

This means that Flight 77 could not possibly have crashed into the Pentagon on 911. Nevermind the fact that only one engine rotor (of about one third the size of a 757 rotor) was ever found. Last time I checked, 757s have TWO rotors.

Interestingly, the 'working parts' of airliner engines are made of a titantium-steel alloy, presumably so that they will not melt in the act of doing what they are designed to do. That being the case, if ONE rotor survived the crash at the Pentagon, TWO much larger rotors would, likewise, have survived.

Perhaps, Bush-conspiracists believe that the two rotors popped into a wormhole that was created by the crash. For that matter --where is some one hundred tons of wreckage that should have been recovered? Bush-conspiracists are left with nothing but absurdities and other HILARIOUS violations of Occam's razor.

Clue: there was no wormhole. There was no 757 wreckage because NO 757 crashed into the Pentagon. The official data --cited above --irrefutably puts Flight77 some 273 feet ABOVE the Pentagon within a half second to about a second of whatever it was that crashed into the Pentagon. Another clue: whatever it was that crashed into the Pentagon, it was NOT Flight77.

In short, if Flight 77 had crashed into the Pentagon, both rotors would have survived and both rotors would have been about three times the size of the only rotors that was recovered and photographed.

Moreover, the ONLY rotor to have been discovered was about the right size to have been left over from a Global Hawk. The photos of that single rotor are so good, I am confident that an expert could positively identify its origin --whether it be from a Global Hawk or from (to use Rumsfeld's words) " ...the missile that struck this building".

Now --let's all put to rest the myth (lie) that Flight77 crashed into the Pentagon. Not only is there absolutely NO evidence to support it, there is now --in the public record --OFFICIAL information that proves conclusively, without an reasonable doubt, that Flight77 DID NOT AND COULD NOT HAVE crashed into the Pentagon.

Related: there were NO names of Arab hijackers on the official autopsy released --again in response to an FOIA request.

btw ---the opposite of 'truther' is LIAR!

 

[funk de fino]

NTSB released Flight77 flight data in response to an FOIA request by Pilots for 911 truth. This 'official' flight data shows Flight77 at an altitude of 273 feet within one half to about a second of 'impact' at the Pentagon on 911.

This means that Flight 77 could not possibly have crashed into the Pentagon on 911. Nevermind the fact that only one engine rotor (of about one third the size of a 757 rotor) was ever found. Last time I checked, 757s have TWO rotors.

Interestingly, the 'working parts' of airliner engines are made of a titantium-steel alloy, presumably so that they will not melt in the act of doing what they are designed to do. That being the case, if ONE rotor survived the crash at the Pentagon, TWO much larger rotors would, likewise, have survived.

Perhaps, Bush-conspiracists believe that the two rotors popped into a wormhole that was created by the crash. For that matter --where is some one hundred tons of wreckage that should have been recovered? Bush-conspiracists are left with nothing but absurdities and other HILARIOUS violations of Occam's razor.

Clue: there was no wormhole. There was no 757 wreckage because NO 757 crashed into the Pentagon. The official data --cited above --irrefutably puts Flight77 some 273 feet ABOVE the Pentagon within a half second to about a second of whatever it was that crashed into the Pentagon. Another clue: whatever it was that crashed into the Pentagon, it was NOT Flight77.

In short, if Flight 77 had crashed into the Pentagon, both rotors would have survived and both rotors would have been about three times the size of the only rotors that was recovered and photographed.

Moreover, the ONLY rotor to have been discovered was about the right size to have been left over from a Global Hawk. The photos of that single rotor are so good, I am confident that an expert could positively identify its origin --whether it be from a Global Hawk or from (to use Rumsfeld's words) " ...the missile that struck this building".

Now --let's all put to rest the myth (lie) that Flight77 crashed into the Pentagon. Not only is there absolutely NO evidence to support it, there is now --in the public record --OFFICIAL information that proves conclusively, without an reasonable doubt, that Flight77 DID NOT AND COULD NOT HAVE crashed into the Pentagon.

Related: there were NO names of Arab hijackers on the official autopsy released --again in response to an FOIA request.

btw ---the opposite of 'truther' is LIAR!

You have no aircraft experience at all do you?

Just truther lies from websites you have found.

Old stuff

PS - Blades break off rotors they are not very strong.

 

[Dave Rogers]

NTSB released Flight77 flight data in response to an FOIA request by Pilots for 911 truth. This 'official' flight data shows Flight77 at an altitude of 273 feet within one half to about a second of 'impact' at the Pentagon on 911.

You haven't followed a word of this thread, have you?

Nevermind the fact that only one engine rotor (of about one third the size of a 757 rotor) was ever found. Last time I checked, 757s have TWO rotors.

What's your source for the claim that the other rotor wasn't found? Is it, perhaps, the fact that there's only a photograph of one rotor published? Photographic coverage of the damage and debris of the Pentagon was far from complete, so the absence of a photograph is hardly evidence of the absence of an object.

Perhaps, Bush-conspiracists believe that the two rotors popped into a wormhole that was created by the crash.

I thought you said one of them was found? We only need a big enough wormhole for one now. But critics of both Bush and the 9/11 truth movement don't believe anything of the sort.

Clue: there was no wormhole. There was no 757 wreckage because NO 757 crashed into the Pentagon. The official data --cited above --irrefutably puts Flight77 some 273 feet ABOVE the Pentagon within a half second to about a second of whatever it was that crashed into the Pentagon.

That's where we need your wormhole, because nobody saw Flight 77 flying 273 feet over the Pentagon, and the security cameras show that there wasn't an airliner flying 273 feet over the Pentagon at the moment of the crash. Where did it go?

Moreover, the ONLY rotor to have been discovered was about the right size to have been left over from a Global Hawk. The photos of that single rotor are so good, I am confident that an expert could positively identify its origin --whether it be from a Global Hawk or from (to use Rumsfeld's words) " ...the missile that struck this building".

It's been positively identified as the inlet turbine hub from a Rolls-Royce RB-211 turbofan, the type of engine fitted to all AA Boeing 757s. It looks smaller because the turbine blades have been broken off, which, since they're long, thin objects, is exactly what would be expected. Also identified in the wreckage are parts of the undercarriage of a Boeing 757 and other RB-211 engine parts. Incidentally, Global Hawks and missiles don't use RB-211s.

http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

These links give more details.

btw ---the opposite of 'truther' is LIAR!

No, the opposite of 'truther' seems to be 'sane'.

Dave

 

[Mr.Herbert]

btw ---the opposite of 'truther' is LIAR!

Another CIT'er or PFFFT'er wanna be looking to join the tree fort.

The following is the process to join CIT / PFFT :

Part 1 of the initiation process is to post X amount of posts at JREF

Part 2 is suicide by mod at JREF.

Part 3, Well, let's watch Aldo of CIT show you what you will have to do to finally get the secret knock to obtain access to the tree fort:

 

[twinstead]

I'd love to get one of those CIT fools trying argue these points with experts in the relevant fields in a court of law.

 

[Turbofan]

I am simply beside myself at this point, Turbo. On a point-by-point basis you can find no fault with every theoretical or realistic possibility I offer for how flash memory can be corrupted, yet when asked by someone else if my arguments are faultless you say 'no'. Which is it?

Hey long time no see everyone! How have you been? I thought I'd come
back to update the latest on this topic. It seems the people I've been
talking to, and researching with don't agree with "MacGyver's" 'expertise'
on flight data systems.

I have an offer for MacGyver and a few questions:

- What is your background with FDR design?

- What type and model of FDR have you worked with?

- Are you willing to put your real name behind the statements you have
made about transients with respect to FDR data erasure?

I have an engineer who is willing to debate you on this forum using his
real name to discuss your points. He will sign up under the following
conditions:

- We start a new thread and you (MacGyver) must also use your real name.

- Only the two of you, R. Mackey, JayDeeHess and myself may participate
in the discussion. I think he's concerned with the "peanut gallery type
BS that floods this thread. I'm sure technical questions and conversation
will be fine.

Don't worry, I've already reassured him that you are certainly an engineer
however he doubts your knowledge of flight data recorders.

I'm only passing on the info, don't shoot the messenger.

I personally would love to see two Electrical Engineers discuss avionics and
data acq. systems.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll pass on the reply. Please answer
the previous questions at your convenience.

Thanks.

ETA: Jaydee, have you found the tech paper yet? It's been up for a while.

 

[WildCat]

Wow, the PffffT is desperate now.

How about you guys just take your freak show somewhere else Turbofan? No one is going to give the psychopathic idiot Rob Balsamo their real name. The first thing that asshat would do is try to find his address and post it on his site for paranoid losers.

Go find a real FDR expert who agrees with you frauds. You've been unable to to date, because you guys are a pathetic joke.

You have nothing, you will never have more than nothing. Flight 77, piloted by Hani Hanjour, crashed into the Pentagon killing everyone on board and many in the Pentagon. Not our problem if a group of schizophrenic freaks led by a snake oil salesman trying to make a buck can't handle that.

 

[Turbofan]

Wow, the PffffT is desperate now.

How about you guys just take your freak show somewhere else Turbofan? No one is going to give the psychopathic idiot Rob Balsamo their real name. The first thing that asshat would do is try to find his address and post it on his site for paranoid losers.

Go find a real FDR expert who agrees with you frauds. You've been unable to to date, because you guys are a pathetic joke.

You have nothing, you will never have more than nothing. Flight 77, piloted by Hani Hanjour, crashed into the Pentagon killing everyone on board and many in the Pentagon. Not our problem if a group of schizophrenic freaks led by a snake oil salesman trying to make a buck can't handle that.

These are the kinds of BS replies that wont be welcome in the head to head
discussion mentioned above.

I already know MacGyver's name from the EE forum, but out of respect for
him, I'll allow him to give authorization, or post it himself.

What's the matter Wildcat, are you afraid to find out the truth?

 

[WildCat]

These are the kinds of BS replies that wont be welcome in the head to head
discussion mentioned above.

I already know MacGyver's name from the EE forum, but out of respect for
him, I'll allow him to give authorization, or post it himself.

What's the matter Wildcat, are you afraid to find out the truth?

Go pound sand Turbofan. Rob Balsamo's pathetic little group of mentally ill wannabe FDR experts have nothing. If you had something you wouldn't be trolling internet forums to have debates with people you claim are unqualified on the subject matter, you'd publish a paper in an engineering journal, or submit a paper to the pilot's union revealing your shocking findings, or any of a myriad legitimate ways to blow open the whole ridiculously complex conspiracy you guys believe in without a shred of evidence.

Debating on the internet? FAIL.

 

[TjW]

These are the kinds of BS replies that wont be welcome in the head to head
discussion mentioned above.

I already know MacGyver's name from the EE forum, but out of respect for
him, I'll allow him to give authorization, or post it himself.

What's the matter Wildcat, are you afraid to find out the truth?

I guess I don't understand. You seemed perfectly happy with MacGyver's qualifications, and even his responses, when you found him on the EE forum.

Why would you need to find someone to debate the expert that you found?

It was only when he made it clear that he would not allow you to twist his answers to support your position that he began to lack credibility in your eyes.

It seems your method of determining the truth is: decide what the truth is, then find an expert in the field who agrees with you. If he doesn't agree with you, then obviously he's not an expert, because he doesn't know what the truth is.

I understand there are hypochondriacs who pick doctors that way.

 

[Turbofan]

Go pound sand Turbofan. Rob Balsamo's pathetic little group of mentally ill wannabe FDR experts have nothing. If you had something you wouldn't be trolling internet forums to have debates with people you claim are unqualified on the subject matter, you'd publish a paper in an engineering journal, or submit a paper to the pilot's union revealing your shocking findings, or any of a myriad legitimate ways to blow open the whole ridiculously complex conspiracy you guys believe in without a shred of evidence.

Debating on the internet? FAIL.

Poor Wildcat.

Someone's scared I see.

Unfortunately for you, I don't sit back and accept status quo. I reserach,
I get in your face and I talk to real people with names and professions
(unlike the faceless socks here).

You see, we're not sure that MacGyver has played with circuitry that is
certified to several thousand g's. An MP3 Flash is not the same as a
secure chip in a flight data system (not saying that is all MacGyver has
worked with...just making a point).

By the way, get on the phone with L3, or the NTSB like we did. Start doing
some research.

P.S. I've already addressed your question pages ago. Stop with the circular
arguments please.