William Ayers on NPR

[gtc]

Yet it doesn't come up... but being on the board of directors with a guy who blew up empty buildings forty years ago and since then has become a respected member of the community is big news....

Irony.

McCain displaying poor judgement in who he associated with doesn't excuse Obama but nice attempt to minimise Ayers actions.

 

[gtc]

Well, McCain is not an unknown quantity. Like him or hate him, his record is long enough, and he's been in the public eye enough, that people can figure out their opinions of him pretty damned independently from that episode. In contrast, Obama was essentially an unknown. He's got precious little public record, and not much in the way of accomplishments. So the relative importance of his associations is much larger. That may not be fair, but that's the way it is, and for good reason. So I'm not sure why you consider it ironic.

What is it about Obama that means that so many of his supporters are prepared to embrace any number of logical fallacies and even redefine terrorism to defend him? Why is it so important that Obama not be criticised?

 

[MaGZ]

If a Klansman in the sixties go off on a technicality in a church bombing, what would people like Ayers and his comrades on this forum have to say about this injustice?

 

[MaGZ]

I disagree. Terrorism, in my mind, involves targeting non-combatants for attack. Damaging property is vandalism, even if your vandalism has a political point. While it is true the bombs might have injured innocent people, that was certainly not their target.

Ayers believed that the US attacks in Vietnam, where bombs and napalm were dropped on women and children who happened to be near where combatants might have been located, was terrorism. That is certainly an debatable point. If the argument is that "soldiers can't be terrorists", it is a very weak one. I am deeply ashamed of the way the government of the country I love, fought that war.

Are you ashamed of the way this country fought WW II?

 

[Tricky]

Are you ashamed of the way this country fought WW II?

Not the way they fought, no, not for the most part, although Dresden was disgraceful. But they should have joined earlier, and I'm ashamed of them for that. England was our greatest ally in WWI only twenty years earlier, and we stood by and nearly let the Nazi's overrun them. Are you proud of that?

 

[Tricky]

If a Klansman in the sixties go off on a technicality in a church bombing, what would people like Ayers and his comrades on this forum have to say about this injustice?

It would depend. Did the Klansman only bomb empty churches? Did he send out warnings that a bomb was going to be set off?

 

[Dr Adequate]

Between 1970 and 1974, the Weatherman took credit for 12 bombings (others are suspected), including one at the United States Capitol and another at the Pentagon. And you don't call that terrorism?

Bernadine Dohrn was apparently involved in a bombing that killed a police officer and injured many others. And you don't call that terrorism?

And what about the nail bomb plot? You do remember that, don't you? Recall that Ayers' girlfriend at the time (Diane Oughton) died (along with 2 other WUO members) when a nail bomb she was building in a Greenwich Village apartment blew up? In the rubble they found several other already finished nail bombs and enough additional sticks of dynamite for several more. I suppose you don't think using those nail bombs as was intended ... i.e., to kill hundreds of people at a military dance ... would have been an act of terrorism? I suppose you accept Ayers self-serving speculation that Oughton blew the bomb up deliberately to keep it from being used for the purpose it was intended? I suppose you believe Ayers when he claims he wasn't there and didn't know about the plot? I suppose you believe Dohrn was unaware of that plot too?

And what about the bombing of the police station? Remember that one? According the AIM (http://www.aim.org/aim-column/tribune-covers-for-obamas-terrorist-friends/ ) Larry Grathwohl, a former member of the Weatherman Underground testified under oath before a Senate Subcommittee in 1974 that Ayers told him that Dorhn had to plan, develop and carry out the bombing. Here are some quotes from Cliff Kincaid's article:







Sorry, but that's more than just "misguided". That's terrorism.



FALSE. I'm not going to let you get away with this untruth. Despite continued denials from Obama supporters, there is plenty to suggest Obama and William Ayers had a long and substantial connection. They were not just "neighbors" as first claimed by Obama. They didn't first meet at the gathering in Ayers' home which kicked off Obama's political career as also was claimed by Obama's campaign organization later on. We know the following about their relationship ... despite attempts to hide it.

First, for well over a decade they have both lived in the same neighborhood in Chicago and have both been active in the school reform movement. Back in the late 80s, Obama was the Executive Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP) while William Ayers organized the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools (ABCS) group ... of which DCP was a member. During that effort, they met (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/u...2000&en=97a61d8ecb16e341&ei=5087 &oref=slogin ) ... in 1987 in Chicago at a luncheon meeting about school reform. They didn't first meet in 1995 as was claimed.

In 1987 Michelle Robinson (Obama's eventual wife) was hired as a summer associate by the law firm of Sidley and Austin in Chicago. From 1988 to 1991, she worked as an associate at the firm. Well guess what? Sidley and Austin's managing partner was a well known personal friend of Ayers' father, Thomas Ayers. Bernadette Dohrn (William Ayer's wife) worked at this firm as well ... as a para-legal. Presumably, they would have met since the firm wasn't *that* big. In 1989, while Barack was attending Harvard, Michelle first met Barack when she was assigned to mentor him when he was a summer associate at Sidley and Austin.

In 1991, Michelle quit the law firm to work for Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley. Mayor Daley recently said he knew Ayers and also said that Obama and Ayers were "friends". Why couldn't they be friends? They've lived in the same neighborhood the entire time they've been in Chicago (decades). They share the same politics (social justice). Their wives worked at the same law firm. They hung out with the same people (i.e., radicals). They worked on numerous related projects. And if you don't believe this train of logic ... believe Ayers. In the forward of his recently republished book (conveniently released days after November 4th), Ayer's states he was a "family friend". "family friend" ... which implies a substantial connection.

After graduating from Harvard, Barack went to work for the law firm of Davis, Miner and Barnhill from 1992 to 1995. What a coincidence ... Judson Miner just happened to be a personal friend and law school classmate of Dohrn, where they were both involved in anti-war activities. And you don't think there was a connection?

In 1995, Obama was picked to chair the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC). Tell us ... is it reasonable to think that Ayers had nothing to do with this selection (as claimed by Obama supporters) given that it was Ayers who initiated and obtained the first $50 million in funding for this project? Of course it's not reasonable. Of course Ayers had a say in the matter.

During this project, Obama collaborated closely with Ayers. They had to have worked closely together. They were co-chairs over a 5 year period. Obama helped raise another $60 million and, eventually, the two wasted over 100 million dollars on this left-leaning education reform experiment. Is it at all reasonable to think that co-chairs during a 5 year long, 100 million dollar effort would hardly know one another? Of course not. Of course they knew one another. Is it reasonable to believe that during that time they would not socialize? Of course not. Of course they socialized. You'd have to be gullible to believe they didn't.

And this activity led to other shared projects. Like Obama reviewing a book on education written by Ayers, giving it a glowing recommendation. Obama appeared with Ayers on numerous academic panels, including one organized by Michelle Obama to discuss Ayers' book. Yes, even Michelle had an interest and familiarity with Ayers. After all, he was a "family friend" ... by Ayers' own admission.

When Obama became involved in politics, guess who was there? Ayers, of course. As noted earlier, Obama started his journey into politics at a gathering in the home of none other than Ayers and Dohrn. Obama was identified as a "friend" of Ayers by Dr Quentin Young who attended that gathering. Obama got an "official endorsement" from Ayers, maybe not for President of the United States, but several times in his earlier campaigns for political office. Does Ayers endorse people he doesn't know or trust? Of course not. And keep in mind that Obama's campaign claimed he did not get endorsements from Ayers. Another lie.

Obama also got endorsements from radical organizations, such as Movement for a Democratic Society (MDS), which have direct links (via it's members) to the 60's radical group, SDS, and it's terrorist offshoot, the Weather Underground ... and hence to William Ayers. Obama allowed a long time communist friend of Ayers (from back in the days of SDS, Ayers' school reform effort and now MDS), named Mike Klonsky, to run a blog on the official Obama campaign website. Promoting "social justice". It was only shut down when this association was exposed by a conservative blogger. Then the Obama campaign made a concerted effort to eliminate all traces of Klonsky from their site. But not before that association was noted and recorded.

Obama chose as his education advisor, during his recent campaign, a woman (Gloria Ladson-Billings) who was president of the American Education Research Association (AERA) when she proposed a "reparations" approach to education that Ayers endorsed (and may have helped invent). Ayers is now the Vice President-elect of AERA, an organization that pushes the "social justice" agenda of Obama. Ladson-Billings coauthored two books with William Ayers. Are we to believe she also has no significant connection with either Ayers ... or Obama?

Obama and Ayers served together on the board of directors of the Woods Fund in the late 90's and early 2000's. If one believed the Obama campaign and his supporters, one might think this was their only contact. But now you can see it wasn't. While Obama and Ayers served on the Woods Fund together, Ayers posed standing on an American flag for an article in Chicago Magazine titled "No Regrets" (http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2001/No-Regrets/index.php?cp=1&si=0#artanc ). Are we to believe Obama doesn't subscribe to that magazine? That he didn't know about this? Do you really expect us to believe such nonsense? Because we don't. We think you are gullible.

Obama's chief strategist David Axelrod claimed while on CNN that Obama didn't even know about Ayers' radical past until recently. And then Obama communications Chief Robert Gibbs confirmed that. http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/loc...g/2008/10/video_obama_didnt_know_about_a.html Do rank and file democrats still really buy this lie? Are you so gullible to think that Obama, with all the connections I noted above, and all his supposed intelligence, didn't know about Ayers past until the middle of the Presidential campaign? Especially when this "I didn't really know him" claim is the same claim made about Wright and Tony Rezko when their pasts came to light? We might buy that excuse once ... but did you really expect us to believe it over and over and over? If Obama really is this clueless about those closest to him, perhaps you folks have made a serious mistake putting him into office. I guess time will tell but I sure hope we don't all pay the price.

David Horowitz interviewed Ayers back in the early 90's According to Horowitz (http://www.islet.org/horowitz/20010914.htm ), "I interviewed Ayers ten years ago, in a kindergarten classroom in uptown Manhattan where he was employed to shape the minds of inner city children. Dressed in bib overalls with golden curls rolling below his ears, Ayers reviewed his activities as a terrorist for my tape recorder. When he was done, he broke into a broad, Jack Horner grin and summed up his experience: "Guilty as hell. Free as a bird. America is a great country." Yet Obama was clueless about this? Ayers' is just a "family friend" ... one who it is admitted now emailed and phoned Obama to share ideas? I guess the subject of Ayers and Dohrn's past never came up once during all that time. Right?



Vandalism? Yeah sure. Looks to me more like intent to kill, or countenancing of intent to kill. Looks to me like Ayers and Dohrn only escaped prosecution because of government misconduct in collecting evidence against them.

As Ayers said, "Guilty As Hell". I don't believe Ayers was in the dark about the nail bombs. Not if he was a leader in the organization and sleeping with one of the bomb builders. You go ahead and believe Ayers if you like. But that will just confirm your gullibility, in my opinion.



Guess that depends on what you call good work. Promoting communism, anti-American hatred and ineffective education programs doesn't qualify in my book. But maybe it does in yours.

It seems that someone besides you liked this post, since MaGZ has nominated it.

I shall not speculate on whether this better illustrates the proverb that great minds think alike, or the saying that fools never differ.

 

[BeAChooser]

I'm sorry, but recently it seems that every time there is a thread in Politics that gets lively, BAC comes in and completely ruins it.

How? By pointing out some facts that liberals don't want to hear or discuss?

 

[Tricky]

How? By pointing out some facts that liberals don't want to hear or discuss?

No, by making wild, wordy rants that people have to scroll past if they want to get to any real discussion.