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Deeper than primes

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I have come to the conclusion that “the main idea of my work” as expressed by doron is simply his attempt to exploit his own misunderstanding of basic geometry and by specifically doing what he claims he does not do as well as not doing what he specifically claims he does do.

If we consider an (X, Y, Z) coordinate system from some origin and a line segment starting at coordinates (4, 3, 1) and ending at (4, 3, 10). When viewing this segment along the Z axis it has no apparent spatial extent or would appear as a point at (X, Y) coordinates (4, 3) which is why he equates the line to a point (as he puts it) WRT that point. Unfortunately a line is definitively not a point although it could appear as one from some “exclusive” point of view. In this case along the Z axis, which excludes the spatial extent of the line along that axis. So it would seem that doron’s “main idea of my work” is specifically exploiting such “exclusive” points of view while claiming “No point of view is exclusive during research and this is the main idea of my work” as well as his own misunderstanding of basic geometry whereby he makes assertions like a point equals some line with the line being greater then and less then that point which is not contained within that line. Much the same way he claims to use “=” as self identity yet demonstratively shows that he does not.
 
But maybe your memory is different. You see four.

Memory (as I mean it) is simply a relation between objects.

Without it any object is isolated of any other object.

So cardinality (the number of objects) or a sum of isolated values cannot be found unless memory\object (or REI) are interact with each other.
 
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"Exclusive" means that no other points of view are considered, in order to understand a thing.

In both cases (

(the internal point of view of _._ case, where different conclusions are found if _._ is observed from ___ to . (___ < AND > .) or _._ is observed from . to ___ (. = ___))

OR

(the external point of view, where . and ___ are not observed w.r.t to each other, but a volume observation is used to observe . and __ w.r.t a plane)

) no observation or observation's conclusion is exclusive.
 
I have come to the conclusion that “the main idea of my work” as expressed by doron is simply his attempt to exploit his own misunderstanding of basic geometry and by specifically doing what he claims he does not do as well as not doing what he specifically claims he does do.

If we consider an (X, Y, Z) coordinate system from some origin and a line segment starting at coordinates (4, 3, 1) and ending at (4, 3, 10). When viewing this segment along the Z axis it has no apparent spatial extent or would appear as a point at (X, Y) coordinates (4, 3) which is why he equates the line to a point (as he puts it) WRT that point. Unfortunately a line is definitively not a point although it could appear as one from some “exclusive” point of view. In this case along the Z axis, which excludes the spatial extent of the line along that axis. So it would seem that doron’s “main idea of my work” is specifically exploiting such “exclusive” points of view while claiming “No point of view is exclusive during research and this is the main idea of my work” as well as his own misunderstanding of basic geometry whereby he makes assertions like a point equals some line with the line being greater then and less then that point which is not contained within that line. Much the same way he claims to use “=” as self identity yet demonstratively shows that he does not.
which is why he equates the line to a point (as he puts it) WRT that point.

No, in _._ case no extra dimension like a plane or a volume are used, but only the subjective point of view of __ w.r.t . or the subjective point of view of . w.r.t ___

A subjective point of view means that only the self dimension of an object is used in order to observe a thing.

In this case it is obvious that _._ case cannot be observed but as . = ___ from . view point.

It is also obvious that _._ case can be observed as ___ < AND > . from ___ view point.


Your examples are based on a local point of view of the observed objects, which is used by you as an exclusive point of view, that prevents from you to get non-locality.

You still get a line as as something that is defined by sub-objects (like points, for example).

Furthermore, you get a volume as a collection of points where each point has an x,y,z location.

From this collection of local objects, you have no choice but to conclude anything and everything by using the exclusive point of view of locality.

Again, a line segment is not made by any sub-objects, and its non-composed property is exposed if :

. is observed through ___ (let us call it a subjective viewpoint of ___ from ___ to .)

OR

a volume observation is used to observe . and __ w.r.t a plane (let us call it an objective viewpoint of . and __)

There is another problem in your case, because a concept like "atom" is not understood by you as a non-composed thing.

By this problem alone, you are not able to get my work.

Again, the main idea of my work is to understand the researchable by not using exclusive observations.
 
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Memory (as I mean it) is simply a relation between objects.

Without it any object is isolated of any other object.

So cardinality (the number of objects) or a sum of isolated values cannot be found unless memory\object (or REI) are interact with each other.

40268~The-Persistence-of-Memory-c-1931-Posters.jpg

The Persistance of Memory
by Salvador Dali
 
[qimg]http://h1.ripway.com/Apathia/40268~The-Persistence-of-Memory-c-1931-Posters.jpg[/qimg]
The Persistance of Memory
by Salvador Dali
Which is both parallel and serial w.r.t to the observed objects (I like this picture, thank you).

In that case "the art of non-exclusive observation" has to be developed.

It is quite clear that the community of mathematicians of the past 3000 years do not use "the art of non-exclusive observation" because observation is not considered as a significant factor of any known mathematical activity (external observation is exclusive in this community because mathematicians are not trained by other observations, which are not external).
 
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I think that we can learn here something from what I call "the paradox of the anthropologist"

An anthropologist has to understand a thing from within (to use a subjective point of view) and from external point of view (to use an objective point of view of a thing).

In that case he must learn how to combine internal AND external observations, otherwise his knowledge about the researched thing may be trivial.

I do not think that what I call "the paradox of the anthropologist" is limited to any particular research, and in this case also mathematicians have to deal with this paradox in order to develop the mathematical science.
 
"Exclusive" means that no other points of view are considered, in order to understand a thing.

In both cases (

(the internal point of view of _._ case, where different conclusions are found if _._ is observed from ___ to . (___ < AND > .) or _._ is observed from . to ___ (. = ___))

OR

(the external point of view, where . and ___ are not observed w.r.t to each other, but a volume observation is used to observe . and __ w.r.t a plane)

) no observation or observation's conclusion is exclusive.


So now finding that you do use “excusive” points of view in this “main idea of my work” where you stated “No point of view is exclusive during research” you now change it to “no observation or observation's conclusion is exclusive”. An obvious and ineffective dodge since in both the example observations and conclusions you gave you indicate the dependent elements of each point of view that are exclusive from the other.
 
No, in _._ case no extra dimension like a plane or a volume are used, but only the subjective point of view of __ w.r.t . or the subjective point of view of . w.r.t ___


So you assert that you are excluding other or “extra dimension like a plane or a volume” in oder to cliam “No point of view is exclusive during research and this is the main idea of my work.”

A subjective point of view means that only the self dimension of an object is used in order to observe a thing.

In this case it is obvious that _._ case cannot be observed but as . = ___ from . view point.

It is also obvious that _._ case can be observed as ___ < AND > . from ___ view point.


“A subjective point of view means that only the self dimension of an object is used in order to observe a thing” again admitting you depend on points of view that are exclusive or exclude certain dimensions to fit your preferred assertion at that time. You do understand that the statements you made confirm my assertions in the post you quoted that your “as . = ___ from . view point.” is based on you excluding the “the self dimension” of the line and thus its spatial extent. When you respond to a post with “No” it is usually customary to assert how that post was inaccurate not, as you have done, clearly assert that the post was in fact accurate.


Your examples are based on a local point of view of the observed objects, which is used by you as an exclusive point of view, that prevents from you to get non-locality.

Technical they are your examples and your exclusive points of view (as you assert above) I was simply explaining them in terms of standard geometry.

You still get a line as as something that is defined by sub-objects (like points, for example).

Furthermore, you get a volume as a collection of points where each point has an x,y,z location.

From this collection of local objects, you have no choice but to conclude anything and everything by using the exclusive point of view of locality.


No, a volume could be considered a collection of lines, planes or even smaller volumes, you are the only one using exclusive points of view then claiming you do not while considering others to be limited to some exclusive view.

Again, a line segment is not made by any sub-objects, and its non-composed property is exposed if :

. is observed through ___ (let us call it a subjective viewpoint of ___ from ___ to .)


In the example I gave the line segment (4, 3, 1) to (4, 3, 10) is comprised of any number of smaller line segments or an infinite number of points. As an example it can be considered two line segments (4, 3, 1) to (4, 3, 5) and (4, 3 ,5) to (4, 3, 10). Elementary school children have no problem with these fundamental concepts that you seem to struggle with so (shall we say) ‘pointlessly’.

OR

a volume observation is used to observe . and __ w.r.t a plane (let us call it an objective viewpoint of . and __)


Again with your dependence on exclusive points of view.
There is another problem in your case, because a concept like "atom" is not understood by you as a non-composed thing.


Your primary problem remains that simply because you choose to call something an “atom” does not make it a “non-composed thing” or mean that one can not break it down into subunits.

By this problem alone, you are not able to get my work.


By this problem alone you continue to waste your time trying to exploit the exclusive points of view that you claim you do not use, the use of “=” as not a self identity which you profess to use it as and your fundamental misunderstanding of standard geometry that would be explained in any grade school course.

Again, the main idea of my work is to understand the researchable by not using exclusive observations.


Again you lie to yourself more effectively then you lie to others, this entire post of yours clearly demonstrates the dependence of your “main idea of my work” upon such exclusive points of view and observation.
 
Doron,

I'm glad you liked the Dali.
Let's go for another surreal scene.


New Math

Teacher: "Rodney, what's the square root of 144000?"

Rodney: "1200"

Danica: Raises hand and shouts, "That's wrong! it's an irrational number. 379.473 roughly."

Teacher: "Danica, you're rude! Did you use a calculator? Calculators are not allowed in this class. And everybody listen up. Rodney's answer is perfectly acceptable, because in The New Organic Paradigm of Mathematics there are no exclusively correct answers."

Danica: "But excuse me, Mr. Kruft. When I put on my test paper that 1 followed by a decimal point and a non ending string of 9s equals 2, you marked it as wrong. How can it be wrong if there are no wrong answers?"

Teacher: "I said there were no exclusively correct answers. I didn't say there weren't any exclusively incorrect answers."
 
So now finding that you do use “excusive” points of view in this “main idea of my work” where you stated “No point of view is exclusive during research” you now change it to “no observation or observation's conclusion is exclusive”. An obvious and ineffective dodge since in both the example observations and conclusions you gave you indicate the dependent elements of each point of view that are exclusive from the other.

In my opinion, a research must not be limited to any exclusive observation.

It means that you can use any single or combinations of observations, in order to get to different conclusions that are related to the same examined things.
 
Technical they are your examples and your exclusive points of view (as you assert above) I was simply explaining them in terms of standard geometry.

By standard geometry a line segment is defined by at least a pair of points.

In that case a line segment depends on the existence of points, and not vice versa.

In other words, standard geometry uses locality as the exclusive building-block of Geometry.

By using this exclusive observation, you cannot get non-locality, and indeed you did not understand my post.

No, a volume could be considered a collection of lines, planes or even smaller volumes, you are the only one using exclusive points of view then claiming you do not while considering others to be limited to some exclusive view.

A volume, a plane or a line can non-local w.r.t to each other, whare a point cannot be but local w.r.t to any other dimension.

Since you get a volume, a plane of a line as things that are based on sub-things, you cannot get their non-local nature in addition to their local nature.

In other words, your obvervation is closed under a one and only one exclusive observation, which is locality.


In the example I gave the line segment (4, 3, 1) to (4, 3, 10) is comprised of any number of smaller line segments or an infinite number of points. As an example it can be considered two line segments (4, 3, 1) to (4, 3, 5) and (4, 3 ,5) to (4, 3, 10). Elementary school children have no problem with these fundamental concepts that you seem to struggle with so (shall we say) ‘pointlessly’.
Bravo !

And by define a line segment as collection of sub-elements, you are unable to get it as a non-local object. The reason: you are using again locality as exclusive observation.

The Man said:
Your primary problem remains that simply because you choose to call something an “atom” does not make it a “non-composed thing” or mean that one can not break it down into subunits.

The meaning of "atom" is exactly "non-composed" or "indivisible". Actually an atomic state is the opposite concept of anything that is based on sub-elements (and please do not give me the physical atomic state as an example, because the name "atom" was originally given to it because people thought that it is non-composed or indivisible).

The Man said:
By this problem alone you continue to waste your time trying to exploit the exclusive points of view that you claim you do not use, the use of “=” as not a self identity which you profess to use it as and your fundamental misunderstanding of standard geometry that would be explained in any grade school course.

By this problem alone you cannot see beyond the exclusive observation of locality that is learned as the one and only one point of view of the mathematical science (geometry or not) for the past 3000 years.

By learning non-locality in addition to non-locality, the exclusive local observation is going to lose its exclusivity.

Non-locality is a new thing and cannot be found (yet) in any already established school that teaches locality as the one and only one possible observation of Math.

The Man said:
Again you lie to yourself more effectively then you lie to others, this entire post of yours clearly demonstrates the dependence of your “main idea of my work” upon such exclusive points of view and observation.

By using the Cyclops' local-only observation you cannot even lie to yourself, because you are under the illusion of one and only one observation.
 
By standard geometry a line segment is defined by at least a pair of points.

Wrong. A line can be determined by two distinct points.

In that case a line segment depends on the existence of points, and not vice versa.

Wrong again.

In other words, standard geometry uses locality as the exclusive building-block of Geometry.

That's quite a leap. There is also the word, locality, in there for which you have no serviceable definition.

By using this exclusive observation, you cannot get non-locality, and indeed you did not understand my post.

Well, perhaps if you provided valid premises, reasonable definitions, and a correct logic, this might change.
 
In my opinion, a research must not be limited to any exclusive observation.

It means that you can use any single or combinations of observations, in order to get to different conclusions that are related to the same examined things.
Again you admit that your notions depend on “exclusive” observations and now relate that the “ different conclusions that are related to the same examined things.” you assert are simply dependent on your use of “any single or combinations of observations” and therefore not intrinsic characteristics of “the same examined things” but just consequences of “any single or combinations of observations” “that you can use”. Thank you for supporting my assertions with your opinion.
 
By standard geometry a line segment is defined by at least a pair of points.
In that case a line segment depends on the existence of points, and not vice versa.

Says whom? A Point is just a geometrical abstraction, physically the Planck distance would be the lower limit of any spatial considerations. If you are arguing against the geometrical abstraction of points then you should remind yourself that you utilize that abstraction as well.
In other words, standard geometry uses locality as the exclusive building-block of Geometry.

By using this exclusive observation, you cannot get non-locality, and indeed you did not understand my post.

This is your fundamental confusion with standard geometry; a line is the nonlocal expression of points, just as a plane is the nonlocal expression of lines and a volume the nonlocal expression of planes and a hyper volume the nonlocal expression of volumes…ECT. Even as I mentioned before since any line segment can be considered to be comprised of smaller line segments a line segment is also the nonlocal expression of those smaller line segments. The same can be said of planes, volumes, hyper volumes and other aspects of geometry save the point which has no extents. If you bother to study geometry you would know this but you simply choose to make unfounded and irrelevant assertion to help you rationalize the time you have spent thinking you have been developing something new when you have simply been wasting your time.
A volume, a plane or a line can non-local w.r.t to each other, whare a point cannot be but local w.r.t to any other dimension.

It all depends on how one is geometrically defining ‘local’ in that application, another result of your misunderstanding of ‘local’ when applying it to geometry.
Since you get a volume, a plane of a line as things that are based on sub-things, you cannot get their non-local nature in addition to their local nature.
In other words, your obvervation is closed under a one and only one exclusive observation, which is locality.
Bravo !

And by define a line segment as collection of sub-elements, you are unable to get it as a non-local object. The reason: you are using again locality as exclusive observation.


As usual for you, the facts are precisely the opposite of what you say. Because of those subcomponents any local expression, a given line segment plane or volume, can also be a nonlocal expression of some combination of line segments, planes of volumes. You are the only one on this thread who “cannot get” it and your “observation is closed under” your own need to think you have come up with something new.

The meaning of "atom" is exactly "non-composed" or "indivisible". Actually an atomic state is the opposite concept of anything that is based on sub-elements (and please do not give me the physical atomic state as an example, because the name "atom" was originally given to it because people thought that it is non-composed or indivisible).
What you mean much the same way that you now think line segments, planes and volumes are indivisible?
We have been over this before on another thread (do you need me to refer you to that post and the link you continue to ignore?). The term “Atom” can also refer to something in its simplest form. A single line segment is its simplest form, this does not mean that said segment cannot be divided into smaller segments. 2 is the simplest form of 1 + 1 but it can still be replace or has a self identity with 1 + 1 it is just that 1 + 1 is a more complex form of 2. Another point that was addressed in that other thread in term rewiring, which you continue to ignore yet claim to use “=” as self identity, the foundation of term rewriting. With your assertion of “=” as self identity and “. = ___” that means anywhere we find “.” In your assertions we can rewrite it as “___”.


By this problem alone you cannot see beyond the exclusive observation of locality that is learned as the one and only one point of view of the mathematical science (geometry or not) for the past 3000 years.

By your sad devotion to your misinterpretation of basic geometry you have convinced yourself that you have found something new in what has been there all the time if you just bothered to look at it.
By learning non-locality in addition to non-locality, the exclusive local observation is going to lose its exclusivity.

Ironic, since your own assertions are based solely on what “local observation” you choose to use at that given time as exemplified by “From . point of view . = ___” while “From ___ point of view ___ < and > .”. You will see this only when you finally allow your selective conclusions from your exclusive points of view not to exclude you from seeing that non-locality has been a fundamental part of geometry from its inception.


Non-locality is a new thing and cannot be found (yet) in any already established school that teaches locality as the one and only one possible observation of Math.

As I have shown above non-locality is very easy to find in standard geometry, you would have to go out of your way not to find it and in fact it is geometry that lets us define what we consider local or nonlocal in some given consideration, but the fact that you miss such a fundamental aspect of geometry is understandable, as you have gone so far out of your way to try and claim you have found something new.
By using the Cyclops' local-only observation you cannot even lie to yourself, because you are under the illusion of one and only one observation.

I have no desire to lie to myself; you are the only one on this thread who seems to find the ability to lie to yourself as an admirable trait. As far as illusions go, that anyone considers (other than yourself) there is “one and only one observation” is an illusion you have created yourself that you ascribe to others yet depend on so intently in your own assertions that “From . point of view . = ___” while “From ___ point of view ___ < and > .” extolling the differences “From . point of view” as “only one observation” and “From ___ point of view” as “only one observation” and exclusive for the other “.”. You remark in this post about your distain for breaking things down in to sub components and have remarked before about exclusive points of view yet your whole approach is based on breaking the “.” and “___” relation of your example down into two (“From . point of view” and “From ___ point of view”) mutually exclusive points of view or sub components. We still might not agree with what you say but your assertion might carry more veracity if it were not so abundantly apparent that even you do not agree with what you say.
 
Again you admit that your notions depend on “exclusive” observations and now relate that the “ different conclusions that are related to the same examined things.” you assert are simply dependent on your use of “any single or combinations of observations” and therefore not intrinsic characteristics of “the same examined things” but just consequences of “any single or combinations of observations” “that you can use”. Thank you for supporting my assertions with your opinion.

No dear,

I do not support your Cyclops' local-only observation.
 
No dear,

I do not support your Cyclops' local-only observation.


No dear,

We do not need more than that in order to show that you do not understand non-locality.

The rest of your post is based on this misunderstanding.

Oh dear, such informative and well supported rebuttals from doron, I might feel sullen and smited by them if I did not know it was just him calling me “dear” that makes me feel so soiled, I have to go shower now.
 
Doron,

I'm glad you liked the Dali.
Let's go for another surreal scene.


New Math

Teacher: "Rodney, what's the square root of 144000?"

Rodney: "1200"

Danica: Raises hand and shouts, "That's wrong! it's an irrational number. 379.473 roughly."

Teacher: "Danica, you're rude! Did you use a calculator? Calculators are not allowed in this class. And everybody listen up. Rodney's answer is perfectly acceptable, because in The New Organic Paradigm of Mathematics there are no exclusively correct answers."

Danica: "But excuse me, Mr. Kruft. When I put on my test paper that 1 followed by a decimal point and a non ending string of 9s equals 2, you marked it as wrong. How can it be wrong if there are no wrong answers?"

Teacher: "I said there were no exclusively correct answers. I didn't say there weren't any exclusively incorrect answers."

Wrong example.

Please see again http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4228228&postcount=813.

ONNs have nothing to do with arbitrary results.

All they show is:

1) How cardinality or sum can befound, in the first place.

2) How order can be in superposition and not in a superposition.
 
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