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Hillary as Secretary Of State? Change?

Because you don't create growth through welfare, socialism and communism. What you get is an illusion that in the end collapses.
The elction's over, Obama won, you can stop pretending he's a communist now.

Perhaps (I confess your mental processes are obscure to me) you hope to keep the lie fresh, as it were, for 2012. But you should bear in mind that after four years of Obama in office, no-one's going to be fooled by this sorry crap, are they?
 
So Cleon, I take it you aren't going to argue that any of the facts I noted about Hillary's involvement in Chinagage, Filegate or FosterGate are wrong?

You mean am I going to wade through your pile of assertions, misrepresentations, nonsensical conspiracy theories, complete gibberish, and "six-degrees-to-something-that-have-happened" crapola, only to have you come back with another pile of irrelevancies, accusations, misrepresentations of my posts, and general dishonesty?

No. No, I'm not.
 
Obama's selections seem to indicate he may be interested in governing more from the center. If so, I think that's a probably good thing. However, I find it amusing to watch the guy who used "change" as a club to beat Clinton with during the primary now turn around and offer a slew of Clinton-era politicians -- including Clinton herself -- leading posts in his administration.
 
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The question is, if Obama doesn't turn out to be the boogyman you predict and is successful in cleaning up the messes left by Bush, will you be happy or disappointed?

First of all, gdnp, I don't agree that everything you (or Obama) calls a mess is a mess ... or at least a mess created by republicans. For example, I think Bush has done an great job protecting America from terrorists and other foreign threats. I don't think the mortgage problem is due to Bush but rather due primarily to democrats and their policies. I much prefer the approach to illegal immigration that republicans have to the one that Obama and democrats promote. And if we have an energy crisis, then that too is a problem created as much by democrats as anyone else and one which Obama is far less likely to solve than Bush or McCain.

But if Obama can manage to turn the economy around so we get high growth and low employment while not making government more of leach than it already is, I'll be pleased. If he can do as well as Bush did as far as preventing terrorist attacks on the US, in spreading democracy around the world, in securing our oil supplies, then I'll have to admit he was a good president in those areas. Especially if he manages to do all the above without breaking all the laws that the Clinton administration broke.

But what are you going to do if during the next four years we suffer a major terrorist attack as a result of trying to deal with terrorists like they did during the Clinton era ... i.e., by sending in the lawyers? What are you going to do if all the freebies that Obama hands out increase unemployment (as has happened in many socialist countries around the world)? What are you going to do if by putting so many Clintonistas back into high positions we see the disregard for law and privacy that we saw during the Clinton years? What will you do if the educational policies of Ayers when promoted by an Obama administration turn out just as ineffective as they were during CAC?

How far does your hatred of Bush go?

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Because you don't create growth through welfare, socialism and communism. What you get is an illusion that in the end collapses.

Good. Since Obama is not advocating any of those solutions.

That's EXACTLY what he's promoting. His so-called tax cuts are nothing more than wealth redistribution and welfare. He's promising free health care to tens of millions. Many of those who voted for him even think he's going to give them free gas and houses. Now if he doesn't turn out to be a socialist, I'll be very surprised and the first to admit I was wrong in my fears. But if he does turn out to be a socialist and tries to make good on all the promises he made, will you admit you were wrong?

You also don't create wealth through allowing the free market to create opaque financial instruments that no one understands and trade them in a giant pyramid scheme that finally collapses like a house of cards.

The problem with what you say, gdnp, is that the pyramid you allude to was indeed created and managed primarily by democrats. For example, Fannie May and Freddie Mac were democrat run institutions. The LIE that Obama told during the campaign was that Bush and McCain never made any attempt to fix the mortage problem or monitor the lenders. They did. They didn't succeed because democrats in Congress (like Franks) were busy defending the illegal and unwise activities of those institutions. And Obama claimed during the campaign that he did try the fix the mortgage problem. That was outright lie. In fact, he was one of the largest recipients of campaign contributions from Fannie and Freddie.

Hillary is a politician. No more or less honest than most, IMHO.

Well you are entitled to your opinion. But I don't see you actually trying to challenge any of the facts about Chinagate, Filegate or FosterGate that I noted in the OP. :D
 
I'm just tired of rehashing the same old discredited stories.

NONE of what stated in the OP is discredited. You are either lying or uninformed if you claim otherwise. If you challenge me, then I invite you to take any of the claims I made and show that what I claimed is false. Because I can back up everything I noted with multiple credible sources. Now having gone through this exercise multiple times in the past with folks just like you, I predict you won't even try. :D
 
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The elction's over, Obama won, you can stop pretending he's a communist now.

Do you deny that his father, mother, several brothers, childhood mentor, and many other people he has associated with over the years are communists? Do you deny that "wealth redistribution" and "social justice" are common themes of communists?

But you should bear in mind that after four years of Obama in office, no-one's going to be fooled by this sorry crap, are they?

And perhaps you should bear in mind that four years from now they'll think you were the one spouting "crap" and extremely gullible.

I just hope that JREF archives can still access these threads four years from now. :D
 
You mean am I going to wade through your pile of assertions, misrepresentations, nonsensical conspiracy theories, complete gibberish, and "six-degrees-to-something-that-have-happened" crapola, only to have you come back with another pile of irrelevancies, accusations, misrepresentations of my posts, and general dishonesty?

No. No, I'm not.

Why is it that EVERY time democrats are confronted with the truth about the Clintons, THEY RUN.

Pick any one of the assertions I made, Cleon.

I bet I can prove it true. I bet you can't prove it false. :D
 
Republican to Democrat
Conservative to Liberal
Frat boy to Harvard Law Review president
Brash cowboy to thoughtful conciliator

I'm happy to start with those four changes. I will not try to predict the future, nor distort the past.

And BAC -- do you get your opinions straight from the RNC? "Many of those who voted for him even think he's going to give them free gas and houses." Seriously? The misconstrued sentiment of one person is now "many of those..."? Get outta town.
 
Why is it that EVERY time democrats are confronted with the truth about the Clintons, THEY RUN.

Not a Democrat. As I've told you many, many times before.

Thank you for demonstrating your complete inability to be honest with even the most mundane facts.
 
The misconstrued sentiment of one person is now "many of those..."? Get outta town.

How did I misconstrue what she said?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

"I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car. I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage. You know ... if I help him (BAC - meaning Obama), he's going to help me."

And if she was just picked randomly from the crowd, isn't it likely that her sentiments were shared by many others?
 
And if she was just picked randomly from the crowd, isn't it likely that her sentiments were shared by many others?

No.

I suggest researching how polls are constructed and analyzed, or failing that, taking some kind of statistics course.
 
How did I misconstrue what she said?

"I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car. I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage. You know ... if I help him (BAC - meaning Obama), he's going to help me."

And if she was just picked randomly from the crowd, isn't it likely that her sentiments were shared by many others?

What I heard was her hope that the economy would improve and she would be better able to afford gas and her mortgage. And that sentiment - as I interpret it - probably was shared by many. No one thought that "... he's going to give them free gas and houses." I find your interpretation is disingenuous at best.
 
You just voted for Obama and defend the Clintons. :rolleyes:

1. I did not vote for Obama.

2. I only "defend the Clintons" inasmuch as I point out that you are completely full of it. I've never voted for either Clinton.

0 for 2, and again, your dishonesty is apparent.
 
NONE of what stated in the OP is discredited. You are either lying or uninformed if you claim otherwise. If you challenge me, then I invite you to take any of the claims I made and show that what I claimed is false. Because I can back up everything I noted with multiple credible sources. Now having gone through this exercise multiple times in the past with folks just like you, I predict you won't even try. :D

I seem to recall a thread with information competing with yours that had multiple sources as well. So if I look at a lot of evidence and I decide someone else's is better than yours, I'm lying. That makes sense.

Is it impossible for someone to sincerely disagree with you? There's only people that agree with you, and people that are lying?
 
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NONE of what stated in the OP is discredited. You are either lying or uninformed if you claim otherwise. ... Now having gone through this exercise multiple times in the past with folks just like you, I predict you won't even try.

Could you BE any more transparent in your attempt to just pick a fight and show your superiority? Dude, this was all hashed out during the election. Get over it. I see nothing in your claims that I didn't see over the past 18 months. The conservative media (Fox, WSJ, etc.) found nothing to support any of your claims. Maybe you didn't read about it while holed up in your parents' basement playing WOW.
 
Do you deny that his father, mother, several brothers, childhood mentor, and many other people he has associated with over the years are communists? Do you deny that "wealth redistribution" and "social justice" are common themes of communists?
The election's over. Obama won. You can* stop pretending he's a communist now.

* Note that when I say you can stop, this does not necessarily mean that I think you're capable of stopping, I mean that it serves no rational purpose for you to continue, i.e. "can" in the sense of "can afford to".

And perhaps you should bear in mind that four years from now they'll think you were the one spouting "crap" and extremely gullible.

I just hope that JREF archives can still access these threads four years from now. :D
Perhaps you should try basing your estimations of future events on events in the past, such as your long track record of spouting crap and being extremely gullible.

But I can see why you prefer to base your attempts at soothsaying solely on wishful thinking.
 
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What are you going to do if by putting so many Clintonistas back into high positions we see the disregard for law and privacy that we saw during the Clinton years?

Disregard for law and privacy? We are just ending an administration that tried to make its own rules with signing statements, executive orders, and legal memos. Indefinite detention without trial, secret prisons, torture, and suspension of habeus corpus. That gave us the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping. With retroactive immunity for the phone companies. And that is just the stuff we found out about. I'll take the Clinton administration over that any day of the week.
 
I'm no Hillary fan but she has earned the respect of her constituents in New York and many Senators on both sides of the aisle. I'm happy to give her the benifit of the doubt and see how she does.

I'm rooting for her success because it is in the best interest of America. Go Hillary.

:rolleyes:

Looks like I picked a good week to start sniffing glue.
 
Disregard for law and privacy? We are just ending an administration that tried to make its own rules with signing statements, executive orders, and legal memos. Indefinite detention without trial, secret prisons, torture, and suspension of habeus corpus. That gave us the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping. With retroactive immunity for the phone companies. And that is just the stuff we found out about. I'll take the Clinton administration over that any day of the week.
Ah, but they insisted on complete exclusion of prying eyes when it came to things like Cheney's meetings with Enron and on the memos of the Valerie Plame affair. How can you say they disregard privacy?
 

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