AE911Truth and the actual # of engineers in America...

[lapman]

The scienctific community has failed to come up with a believable description of how the towers fell.

---and the CD proponants have come up with a believable story of how/when the explosives were laid??

Let's not forget how much and what type. Add to that how "they" were able to get 100% of all audio recording devices to not record the sound of said explosives, while "many people heard them."

 

[Norseman]

The Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice had retired FDNY Batallion Chief Arthur Scheuerman as a member, even though Arthur Scheuerman appeared on a Hardfire show with Ron Wieck and Mark Roberts speaking out AGAINST the lies of the 9/11 conspiracy theories. I even emailed them about this when I noticed it (about 6 months ago) and sent them a link to his Hardfire discussion. To this date, they haven't corrected this lie of theirs and his name still appears as a member.

I think this post could provide some answers to your question RKOwens:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3301082#post3301082

ETA:

As I said in the post Scheuerman is not the type of member that Gage and Jones wants. Confirmed by Arthur Scheruerman himself in an note to Pomero earlier this year:

I just received this note from Arthur Scheuerman:

"Sorry for the delay. I just had a triple bypass operation with an aortic valve replacement.Yes you can place the sentence and maybe question why I am blocked from the A & E engineers for 9/11 truth web sites. They don't want any real questions. "

Arthur


I'm glad to hear that the issue of his involvement with Gage's bogus group has been cleared up, but conspiracy theories are not very important in the grand scheme of things. If you found the chief's appearance on 'Hardfire' informative, here's the opportunity to contribute a line or two wishing him a speedy recovery.

My emphasis.

Though they do not like his questions and views they are happy to still list him as member of both Scholars and Architects.

 

[Homeland Insurgency]

Since it's kind of a slow day, I thought some of you might find this interesting. We all know that truthers like to say that there are over 500 members of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (537 right now, to be exact). However, what truthers don't do is put this number in perspective against the number of architects and engineers overall. As someone who recently changed his major to mechanical engineering, I was just looking on the website for the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics and found that the number of engineers in America is even larger than I'd thought.

In 2006 (the last year that this survey was done), there were about 1.5 million employed engineers in the United States. I did a search for architects and found that in 2006, there were about 132,000 architects employed in the United States. Sources:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#emply (engineers)
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos038.htm#emply (architects)

That adds up to 537 out of about 1,632,000 employed architects and engineers who support 9/11 truth, or 1 in 3,039. But wait, the key word here is EMPLOYED. If you look at the members list of the 537 provided on the website for AE911Truth, you'll find that many of them are retirees, people who once worked in architecture or engineering but left the field decades ago (like Jeff King) and professors who teach architecture or engineering. So we have to include these as well in our overall number. There's probably no way to get an exact number on any of these, but to use a conservative estimate the number would probably easily bring the total up to over 2,000,000. But wait, there's more. AE911Truth has members from countries all around the world. The 2,000,000 figure includes only those in the United States. The U.S. is 5% of the world's population, but I doubt that the number of architects and engineers is proportionate to population worldwide. Still, when we include the number of architects and engineers worldwide, using even a conservative estimate would multiply this by about 5 times, bringing the number to 10 million. Finally, we end up with 537 architects and engineers out of 10 million who support 9/11 truth, or 1 in 18,622. Truthers, still want to brag about the number of architects and engineers who support your ideas? Is 537 still an impressive number to you?

So how many architects and engineers independently support the official theory? How many of them are debunkers?

Employed or not.

And just how do they support it?

 

[Thunder]

i think its safe to assume that any architects and engineers that dont involve themselves, in any way, with the 9-11 truthers, pretty much agree with what really happened (a.k.a. the OCT)

what is it with truthers and acronyms? lolol

 

[Homeland Insurgency]

So how many architects and engineers independently support the official theory?

 

[Thunder]

are you expecting there to be a internet forum for folks who agree with the true story of what happened on 9-11?

its already been supported by the most important architectual and engineering firms, societies, and schools of thought.

their seal of appoval is good enough for me.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

The 500 or so Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth are to the Twoofer movement what the handful of biologists that the Creationists have co-opted are to the ID movement and prove the same points.

That there are always some people that, regardless of hos much training they have in a subject, will put their beliefs ahead of their training

And that the woos will always sieze on that fact as some sort of victory, depsite how insignificant the numbers may actually be.

Someone should start the anti-twoofer equivalent of Project Steve

 

[Grizzly Bear]

So you don't have any? Out of what RKO claims is 10 million?

Whether it comes from you or anyone else... an argument from silence is not proof of absence

More telling is that groups like AE911 need to include people who aren't even engineers or architects into their list of 500. Now, if you're going to have someone brag numbers wouldn't you at least want them to be reasonably honest?

Better yet, if they're going to set out to demonstrate their theories don't you think they should come closer to a more reasonable comparison than dropping cardboard boxes? Oh I forgot this is a valid comparison to you isn't it?

 

[Homeland Insurgency]

Whether it comes from you or anyone else... an argument from silence is not proof of absence

More telling is that groups like AE911 need to include people who aren't even engineers or architects into their list of 500. Now, if you're going to have someone brag numbers wouldn't you at least want them to be reasonably honest?

Better yet, if they're going to set out to demonstrate their theories don't you think they should come closer to a more reasonable comparison than dropping cardboard boxes? Oh I forgot this is a valid comparison to you isn't it?

So none out of 10 million for the debunkers is what percentage?

Although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence the truthers in regards to Architects & Engineers independently weighing in on the official version have more then just absent.

And I'm glad you know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just don't be selective with that.

 

[A W Smith]

So none out of 10 million for the debunkers is what percentage?

Although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence the truthers in regards to Architects & Engineers independently weighing in on the official version have more then just absent.

And I'm glad you know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just don't be selective with that.

Model building codes have been modified and standard practices have changed as a direct results of the collapse of the WTC. One generally doesn't have to be outspoken about it. It's a consensus.

 

[Thunder]

Model building codes have been modified and standard practices have changed as a direct results of the collapse of the WTC. One generally doesn't have to be outspoken about it. It's a consensus.

i think he is suggesting that since most folks arent outspoken about 9-11 on a daily basis...doesnt mean they arent secretly crypto-truthers.

 

[A W Smith]

i think he is suggesting that since most folks arent outspoken about 9-11 on a daily basis...doesnt mean they arent secretly crypto-truthers.

I did a job is Staten Island today, I noticed many streets renamed after firefighters. I do not suppose many in Staten Island believe firefighters brought down any of the WTC buildings like truthers assert. Or they certainly wouldn't be naming streets after them.

 

[Thunder]

um..did you happen to see that little memorial to the FDNY on Hylan Blvd??

 

[A W Smith]

um..did you happen to see that little memorial to the FDNY on Hylan Blvd??

I was a bit north by arthur Kill Road

 

[tanabear]

The 500 or so Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth are to the Twoofer movement what the handful of biologists that the Creationists have co-opted are to the ID movement and prove the same points.

That there are always some people that, regardless of hos much training they have in a subject, will put their beliefs ahead of their training

And that the woos will always sieze on that fact as some sort of victory, depsite how insignificant the numbers may actually be.

Someone should start the anti-twoofer equivalent of Project Steve

So how many architects and engineers have gone on record stating that they support Zdenek Bazant's crush-down/crush-up hypothesis? How many even know what that is? Can you provide me with a list?

 

[Baylor]

So how many architects and engineers have gone on record stating that they support Zdenek Bazant's crush-down/crush-up hypothesis? How many even know what that is? Can you provide me with a list?

A list isn't necessary. It passed peer-review from an accredited academic journal and remains unchallenged.

 

[dtugg]

A list isn't necessary. It passed peer-review from an accredited academic journal and remains unchallenged.

You forgot, Hiewa has proved Bazant wrong by using pizza boxes, matchboxes, and a bathroom scale.

 

[1337m4n]

Hey tanabear, how many meteorologists have gone on record saying that the sky is blue?

 

[beachnut]

So how many architects and engineers independently support the official theory? How many of them are debunkers?

Employed or not.

And just how do they support it?

Did you miss it? Less than 0.01 percent are with you and the crazy ideas, lies, false information and fantasy of 9/11 truth.

You have 0.01 percent (less than), and you can't find more architects. Why not? At least you have 0.01 percent who believe nut case ideas, the engineers are less than 0.0001 percent. But who is counting the nut case idea believers. Oops...


Why are those architects in A&E unable to comprehend 9/11 events? What makes people give up logic and accept nut case fantasy ideas like Gage does?

 

[eromitlab]

So none out of 10 million for the debunkers is what percentage?

Although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence the truthers in regards to Architects & Engineers independently weighing in on the official version have more then just absent.

And I'm glad you know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just don't be selective with that.

Only truthists feel the need to assemble "look at all these smart people with degrees and training and titles who agree with us!!!!!!" lists like ae911twoof, "patriots"question911, 911summary, a handful of georgewashington blog posts, scholars for 9/11 "truth", lawyers for 9/11 "truth", firefighters for 9/11 "truth", et cetera. Only truthists feel they must appeal to authority to validate their evidence-free proof, fact-free accusations and ignorance-fueled speculation.

If truthists had any real confidence in what they were saying, they'd bug as many engineers as they could to try and get a statement from them one way or another... or maybe they're just afraid of what the results of such an undertaking might be.

HI, maybe you'd care to educate all of us on how these lists change anything. The arguments are still bunk and not corroborated by anything but cut-and-paste conspiracy websites that reference unnamed sources when they're not referencing each other and youtube videos that chose ominous music over fact-checking. How does having such a small percentage of the world's engineers and architects "on your side" matter, especially considering the only thing they're doing about this horrible crime they think they've uncovered is support Richard Gage travelling around to give speeches and drop an occasional box?