Simple fluoride question

[defaultdotxbe]

um, until provide actual evidence of it, it simply did not happen.

thats right!! without physical, photo, video, eye-witness evidence of an event..it DID NOT OCCUR.

one thing about the nazis is they documented EVERYTHING, if they did this, there would be records, how much was used, how it was administered, what the anticipated effects were, what the actual effects were, etc etc

 

[Praktik]

Ya but this whole "fluoride makes you more suggestible" thing really IS a leap.

The journals show brain damage, it shows lower IQs (maybe), but they DO NOT show, nor has any study ever shown, how fluoride would make one more agreeable when locked up in a concentration camp or prison camp. Wouldn't the constant threat of violence and the heirarchical structures of such places be a more important factor in determining someone's willingness to go along with orders?

Its a leap to start with "fluoride has been shown to cause brain damage in high doses and possibly lowering IQ by a few points" and then say "fluoride is a mind control drug" or "fluoride makes you more likely to accept the system mannnn!"

Wouldn't a more likely motive for its introduction to our water supplies be a conjunction of profit and the idea that doing so is actually beneficial - however flawed that "beneficial" part may turn out to be?

 

[Thunder]

the whole "fluoride is bad for you" movement would do a whole lot better if they left out the nazi mind-control lies. why is it that possibly good theories always get screwed up by paranoid bs?

maybe they KNOW their theory is bunk..so they add in a little paranoid conspiracy theory nonesense to ENSURE its illegitamacy.


that way, they can yell and scream "the NWO is trying to kill my theory!!!..dont listen to them!!", rather then face the music of a quiter, yet much more embarrasing, scientific dethrowning.

see? these people really aren't as stupid as they sound. they think these things through.

 

[Almo]

What is your point. Brush your teeth and you will get the needed fluoride. You think you should drink a proven poison because it passes through your teeth.

I think you drank too much fluoride.

My point was that your post was irrelevant. It doesn't matter if flouride is topical; flouride in water touches your teeth and therefore does its job. It's well-known that people who live in places with flouridated water have better teeth.

I think you're ignoring, distorting, or are misinformed about the whole flouride issue.

 

[Without Rights]

um, until provide actual evidence of it, it simply did not happen.

thats right!! without physical, photo, video, eye-witness evidence of an event..it DID NOT OCCUR.

i suspect this was alllll made up, by anti-Communists, to spread fear and suspicion about water fluoridation. whats the best way to scare people about a governmant program??

tell folks it was invented by the Soviets or the Nazis. works every time.

You edited my post. That's a dirty trick.

But we have testimony from Major George R. Jordan to Congress in the 1950's that in his post as U.S.-Soviet liaison officer, the Soviets admitted to "Using the fluoride in the water supplies in their concentration camps, to make the prisoners stupid, docile, and subservient."

This was said before US fluoridated so he is not saying it to try and scare people about a Government program.

More testimony from a chemist, Charles Perkins, saying that a colleague who worked in Nazi Germany confessed to him that fluoride was being added to drinking water.

 

[Praktik]

You edited my post. That's a dirty trick.

But we have testimony from Major George R. Jordan to Congress in the 1950's that in his post as U.S.-Soviet liaison officer, the Soviets admitted to "Using the fluoride in the water supplies in their concentration camps, to make the prisoners stupid, docile, and subservient."

Ok that was said, but was it accurate? What is the scientific and psychological basis for that?

Or was it hyped up in testimony to emphasize the "evil" of the yet-to-be-named "Evil Empire"? Its not like the 50s were a golden age for relations between the two countries.

 

[Without Rights]

My point was that your post was irrelevant. It doesn't matter if flouride is topical; flouride in water touches your teeth and therefore does its job. It's well-known that people who live in places with flouridated water have better teeth.

I think you're ignoring, distorting, or are misinformed about the whole flouride issue.

This is the worst argument I have ever heard.

It doesn't matter if fluoride is topical? We should put it in water because it hits the teeth. It's called toothpaste, use it.

Next time your brushing your teeth just swallow instead of spitting. Spitting is irrelevant, right.

Austria, Sweden, Italy and Belgium don't fluoridate their water and they have a decline in tooth decay that is coefficient with fluoridated societies. According to the World Health Organization, the biggest decline in tooth decay has been Sweden.

 

[Without Rights]

Ok that was said, but was it accurate? What is the scientific and psychological basis for that?

Or was it hyped up in testimony to emphasize the "evil" of the yet-to-be-named "Evil Empire"? Its not like the 50s were a golden age for relations between the two countries.

Stalin murdered 20 million people. I don't think they had to say he fluoridated the water to try and demonize him.

 

[Without Rights]

the whole "fluoride is bad for you" movement would do a whole lot better if they left out the nazi mind-control lies. why is it that possibly good theories always get screwed up by paranoid bs?

maybe they KNOW their theory is bunk..so they add in a little paranoid conspiracy theory nonesense to ENSURE its illegitamacy.


that way, they can yell and scream "the NWO is trying to kill my theory!!!..dont listen to them!!", rather then face the music of a quiter, yet much more embarrasing, scientific dethrowning.

see? these people really aren't as stupid as they sound. they think these things through.

Is there a fact in here I can read? No, just ad hominem. Go figure. You still stand far away from the scientific journals proving toxicity. And you stay clear of answering the call for science that proves ingestion fights cavities. As a matter of fact everybody avoids those topics. Screw Hitler, we are in the here and now. Argue a point, state a fact, reference a study.

Anybody?

 

[Without Rights]

Ya but this whole "fluoride makes you more suggestible" thing really IS a leap.

The journals show brain damage, it shows lower IQs (maybe), but they DO NOT show, nor has any study ever shown, how fluoride would make one more agreeable when locked up in a concentration camp or prison camp. Wouldn't the constant threat of violence and the heirarchical structures of such places be a more important factor in determining someone's willingness to go along with orders?

Its a leap to start with "fluoride has been shown to cause brain damage in high doses and possibly lowering IQ by a few points" and then say "fluoride is a mind control drug" or "fluoride makes you more likely to accept the system mannnn!"

Wouldn't a more likely motive for its introduction to our water supplies be a conjunction of profit and the idea that doing so is actually beneficial - however flawed that "beneficial" part may turn out to be?

Then why argue for fluoridation. It's toxic, it has never been proven beneficial. That should be enough.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

This was said before US fluoridated so he is not saying it to try and scare people about a Government program.

actually the first cities started fluoridating water in the US in 1945

In the mid 1940s, four widely cited studies were conducted. The researchers investigated cities that had both fluoridated and unfluoridated water. The first pair was Muskegon, Michigan and Grand Rapids, Michigan, making Grand Rapids the first community in the world to add fluoride chemicals to its drinking water to try to benefit dental health on January 25, 1945. Kingston, New York was paired with Newburgh, New York. Oak Park, Illinois was paired with Evanston, Illinois. Sarnia, Ontario was paired with Brantford, Ontario, Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation#cite_note-18
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation

 

[Thunder]

Then why argue for fluoridation. It's toxic, it has never been proven beneficial. That should be enough.

why isnt this enough? why bring up the Boogey-men Nazis and Soviets?

cant you just argue on the science? why try to scare people?



I have read a lot about all the horrible things the Nazis and the Soviets did. I have co-workers and friends who lived in the USSR. They have no reason to hold back their accusations and confessions about the Soviet Union. Yet, for some odd reason, the ONLY people who talk about fluoridation and mind control..are wacky paranoid conspiracy theorists...not former Soviet citizens or refugees from the Nazi regime.

I wonder why that is???



And one, final thing. I drink fluoridated water daily. I hold back nothing and curse people out at work. I even get aggressive with my boss. No docility and subserviance here. Please explain that.

 

[JimBenArm]

Mentioning proof is not providing proof? What, do you want me to mail you the journals?

Maybe you could try quoting relevent passages.

Mentioning scientific journals is providing proof. Proof from trained chemists and doctors.

No, it's just claiming there is proof. Showing it to me is providing it. Claiming it exists is just hot air.

You can't provide proof because there is none.

You know none exists how? You've scavanged everyplace in the entire world and know the contents of every research paper ever published on the subject? Wow, I'm almost impressed, except you don't know that any more than I do!

You think you have to be an expert to quote an expert? Maybe your to lethargic to research a little.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything more than you being another internet know-nothing with an agenda, stating things you know little about, pretending to have done research you haven't, posing as an expert after reading a few internet sites and buying their snake-oil. Unlike you, I don't pretend to have expertise where I don't actually have it. So, all the evidence I need is right here in this very thread. You keep proving my point for me, thank you very much!

I never said fluoride is some mythical like drug that will make you agree with everything anybody says.

Here's exactly what you did say.

The mechanism, fluoride reduces I.Q, alters the hypothalamus and causes ADD. By damaging brain function and reducing intelligence people are less likely to worry about things in the world that require thought.

Now, I didn't say anything other than if this evil substance does all these things, I wouldn't be able to argue with you. I'd be too stupid, wouldn't be able to focus on what you were trying to say, and wouldn't be able to make a coherent argument against it. I would, in fact, agree with you, since I could not argue against it. Seems this is your very argument about it being used by the Nazis to pacify the resistance. So, unless I missed something, which I didn't, you fail miserably. You just haven't been able to figure that out yet. Must be fluoride poisoning! Better get that checked out!

The studies show fluoride damages the brain, brain and behavior go hand in hand. And typing on a computer requires very little action or motivation.

So, there has to be action and motivation for the effects to show? I thought the reduction in IQ, having ADD, and not being able to do things that require thought were the symptoms. Guess typing on a keyboard doesn't require thought. At least on one end of this internet connection.

 

[Without Rights]

why isnt this enough? why bring up the Boogey-men Nazis and Soviets?

cant you just argue on the science? why try to scare people?



I have read a lot about all the horrible things the Nazis and the Soviets did. I have co-workers and friends who lived in the USSR. They have no reason to hold back their accusations and confessions about the Soviet Union. Yet, for some odd reason, the ONLY people who talk about fluoridation and mind control..are wacky paranoid conspiracy theorists...not former Soviet citizens or refugees from the Nazi regime.

I wonder why that is???



And one, final thing. I drink fluoridated water daily. I hold back nothing and curse people out at work. I even get aggressive with my boss. No docility and subserviance here. Please explain that.

No one here will argue science I think the damage done by fluoride is scarier than Nazis and Russians, but there is testimony on the matter so why can't I mention it. This is the conspiracy theory forum so we are supposed to explore these things.

If the Nazis and Russians were poisoning their people they would not tell them they are poisoning them so those people you mentioned wouldn't know.

Why don't asbestos give everyone who inhales it cancer? Why don't Xanax cure everyone who suffers from anxiety? Why doesn't Prozac cure all depression?

And that is not to say that you have not damaged your brain.

Honestly, I can care less about arguing what Hitler or Stalin did, that is just what everyone attacks because it is easy. I am only concerned with the health issues that most people refuse to acknowledge despite the scientific evidence.

Or some people who think the benefit of fluoridated water passing through your teeth on the way down your throat some how makes the argument that it is toxic when swallowed "irrelevant".

 

[Without Rights]

Maybe you could try quoting relevent passages.
No, it's just claiming there is proof. Showing it to me is providing it. Claiming it exists is just hot air. You know none exists how? You've scavanged everyplace in the entire world and know the contents of every research paper ever published on the subject? Wow, I'm almost impressed, except you don't know that any more than I do!
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything more than you being another internet know-nothing with an agenda, stating things you know little about, pretending to have done research you haven't, posing as an expert after reading a few internet sites and buying their snake-oil. Unlike you, I don't pretend to have expertise where I don't actually have it. So, all the evidence I need is right here in this very thread. You keep proving my point for me, thank you very much!



Here's exactly what you did say.



Now, I didn't say anything other than if this evil substance does all these things, I wouldn't be able to argue with you. I'd be too stupid, wouldn't be able to focus on what you were trying to say, and wouldn't be able to make a coherent argument against it. I would, in fact, agree with you, since I could not argue against it. Seems this is your very argument about it being used by the Nazis to pacify the resistance. So, unless I missed something, which I didn't, you fail miserably. You just haven't been able to figure that out yet. Must be fluoride poisoning! Better get that checked out!

So, there has to be action and motivation for the effects to show? I thought the reduction in IQ, having ADD, and not being able to do things that require thought were the symptoms. Guess typing on a keyboard doesn't require thought. At least on one end of this internet connection.

I provided the scientific studies, why don't you look at them. Educate yourself. Anyone with a lick of sense can easily check and see if I am just making up studies.

I can say that no science exists that proves the benefit of ingestion because the proponents of fluoridation do not source any. They are under fire everyday and if they had any science they would produce it.

The rest of your garbage post is redundant and full of ad hominem. That is all you got.

I got an idea, go swallow some toothpaste and do your own experiment.

 

[skepticalcriticalguy]

one thing about the nazis is they documented EVERYTHING, if they did this, there would be records, how much was used, how it was administered, what the anticipated effects were, what the actual effects were, etc etc

The Nazis "documented EVERYTHING?" Was there a big bunker in some mountain with a filing system for this "everything?"

Just askin'.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

The Nazis "documented EVERYTHING?" Was there a big bunker in some mountain with a filing system for this "everything?"

Just askin'.

its all in hitler's secret antarctic base

...with hitler


......and the aliens


but seriously though they did keep very good records of everything they did, so if they were experimenting with fluoride youd be able to produce documentation

 

[Thunder]

The Nazis "documented EVERYTHING?" Was there a big bunker in some mountain with a filing system for this "everything?"

Just askin'.

yes. we know. you are "just asking questions".

 

[Thunder]

I provided the scientific studies, why don't you look at them. Educate yourself. Anyone with a lick of sense can easily check and see if I am just making up studies.

I can say that no science exists that proves the benefit of ingestion because the proponents of fluoridation do not source any. They are under fire everyday and if they had any science they would produce it.

The rest of your garbage post is redundant and full of ad hominem. That is all you got.

I got an idea, go swallow some toothpaste and do your own experiment.

if you swallow too much fluoride...it is bad for you.

but that also goes for water, garlic, mustard, peanut oil, cream cheese, and borscht.

tell us something we dont know....

whats the solution to this horrible dilemma? dont swallow too much fluoride. now you are safe.

..just out of curiosity, does this have anything to do with swallowing too much mouthwash due to the high alchohol content?

=)

 

[JimBenArm]

I provided the scientific studies, why don't you look at them. Educate yourself. Anyone with a lick of sense can easily check and see if I am just making up studies.

Only places that state what you did and tie it to the concentrations of that in drinking water are the ones you deny reading. So, no thank you. I stay away from Rense.com, so as to preserve my precious bodily fluids.

I can say that no science exists that proves the benefit of ingestion because the proponents of fluoridation do not source any. They are under fire everyday and if they had any science they would produce it.

Under fire from who? You?

The rest of your garbage post is redundant and full of ad hominem. That is all you got.

Ahem. Ad hominem is : you are wrong because you are ugly. Not ad hominem: You are wrong and you are ugly. If you're going to use terms, please make at least an attempt to understand what they mean. Otherwise you look foolish and stupid. You don't want to do that, do you?
Simply because you don't like what I said doesn't make it ad hom. Especially when I'm correct.

I got an idea, go swallow some toothpaste and do your own experiment.

How very typical. You don't know anything about me other than the fact I've shown you to be another Internet Wanna-Be Expert, and you want to cause me harm. Such a nice boy! If you can't argue your points without resorting to childish tantrums, maybe you should find somewhere else to post your nonsense. You don't want to look immature on top of looking foolish, do you?